Smaller diesel engine, that would replace a gas inline four?

[Gearstix]

Hello,
I've recently been interested in diesel engine conversions.
My dad bought a 2004.5 Chevrolet Silverado 2500HD Crew with the 6.6L LLY Duramax with a Alison transmission... man it hauls. We had a trial of the Bully Dog tuner.. holy crap..

However...
My truck has a 134 cubic inch over head valve four cylinder. It produces around 115hp at the flywheel. Its mated to a Borg Warner T-5 5 speed manual transmission, and its got a 3.73 rear end.
Its a 1994 GMC Sonoma regular cab short box fleetside.
I've been trying to find a suitable diesel engine to swap into my pickup. I've been looking at the Cummins 4BT briefly, but from what I can gather it is too big for my application.

I'd be looking for an engine that I can do slight work to to make it put out more power, but not a significant drop in fuel economy. Something thats got parts readily availible. A simpler engine, I guess, would be nice too, less electrical and stuff. Factory turbo would be nice. I've got a few years to work on my pickup so I'm not overly worried about time. Space might be an issue with my truck, but as it sits now, theres a big shroud on the radiator, and I eventually plan to swap in electric fans, which will clear up a good bit of space. It was sitting in an airport parking lot for a year or two before my dad talked to the owner of the building and got it for me. Got it for free. It runs good, but I'm just considering my options.

This is the best photo I have of the engine bay.


And here it is when we towed it home.


It needs body work, and I'm learning that too. Also planning on putting full airbag suspension under it, which would help with the weight of a diesel engine.
I'm 15 years old, but please don't think of me as some young punk. I've grown up by cars and trucks all my life, and I'm taking automotive courses, and fabrication courses aswell, and I can stick weld, mig weld, oxyweld/cut and use a plasma.

[Gearstix]

I don't need air conditioning, and would like to keep a manual transmission, if that would help.

[steponmebbbboom]

try a VW diesel engine out of a jetta.

small, great on gas, quiet, and light enough that you wouldnt need to touch the suspension. i think youll have your hands full as it is mating the engine to the transmission.

if you can handle that swap successfully, then you can think about more radical engine choices.

[AKMark]

Swap an old 6.2L Chevy in there. Put it with a 700R4 auto or a SM465 manual trans. The T-5 won't hold up to any diesel no matter what. The auto will give better mpg, but the SM465 is strong. If you run the SM465 you should regear the rear end to 3.07 to give you better economy. However, with most diesels you may have a problem with the stock size rear end. Unless you stick to a lower power (6.2L would work fine for this) engine, you are gonna blow that sucker sky high. It was never intended for a hi torque motor.

Turn up the injection pump a little on a 6.2L and you should more than it's current motor ever thought was possible, be one of your cheapest options, keep the Bowtie motor under the hood, and get in the mid 20's or better for MPG.

I know they make kits to put a 350 under the hood of an S-10/S-15 and the 6.2L fits in the same place a 350 does. I know because I put one in a Suburban that had a 350.

Biggest differences;

You are gonna need a hydroboost brake system, a larger radiator, a different transmission, probably a different rear end, a stronger engine crossmember and that's just the extra stuff on top of a complete motor. On a nice note, to make a 6.2L run, you need only one switched power wire to the injection pump, and starter wiring to make it run. 700R4 is also an easy automatic to use because when you set it up correctly, you only need one wire to that as well to lock it up.

Lots of good info here, have fun with the conversion, no matter what motor you decide on.

[Gearstix]

How much is a 6.2 worth? Are they reliable?
I could probably make a new crossmember, and rear end swap I could do that too I guess. Narrowed Ford 9" or something?
The 6.2 is non turbo?
I can get mounts for a 350 and I think 700R4 that will fit right in my truck.
I'm not really sure if I want a manual trans or auto.. with a manual I'd need to hook up a clutch pedal and stuff, or would I be able to use what I got?
Is it a computerized engine?

[AKMark]

6.2's were used from 1982 till 1993 or 94 in GM trucks and vans. They can be found used for pretty cheap. They are easy to work on. No computers required, note the 1 wire I mentioned in my post.

These engines were also used in Humvee's (H1's to the general public) for a long time. Parts are still plentiful.

I'd search craigslist or here for a good old complete truck and use as much of it as possible to build yours. It's cheaper that way than buying all the parts, unless you get some steals.

Just make sure it works good before the swap. I pulled a 6.2 out of a Burb that had been recovered from a theft almost 9 months earlier and left to rot. It ran great when I put it in my much nicer Burb body and it's 700R4 worked well too. It ran five months (many times idling for hours a day during -40's and -50's in Alaska) before I spun a bearing. Looking back, it could've been easily fixed with a new crank and bearings, but I pulled it and started to rebuild it when I came across a much nicer Body and went to that one, which ended up being a money pit.

Look around here, this site was started originally with the 6.2's in mind. LOTS OF INFO!!!

Have fun with the swap, you'll have a very unique truck by the time you get your license.

[Gearstix]

6.2's were used from 1982 till 1993 or 94 in GM trucks and vans. They can be found used for pretty cheap. They are easy to work on. No computers required, note the 1 wire I mentioned in my post.

These engines were also used in Humvee's (H1's to the general public) for a long time. Parts are still plentiful.

I'd search craigslist or here for a good old complete truck and use as much of it as possible to build yours. It's cheaper that way than buying all the parts, unless you get some steals.

Just make sure it works good before the swap. I pulled a 6.2 out of a Burb that had been recovered from a theft almost 9 months earlier and left to rot. It ran great when I put it in my much nicer Burb body and it's 700R4 worked well too. It ran five months (many times idling for hours a day during -40's and -50's in Alaska) before I spun a bearing. Looking back, it could've been easily fixed with a new crank and bearings, but I pulled it and started to rebuild it when I came across a much nicer Body and went to that one, which ended up being a money pit.

Look around here, this site was started originally with the 6.2's in mind. LOTS OF INFO!!!

Have fun with the swap, you'll have a very unique truck by the time you get your license.

I'm worried about mechanical failures and stuff, and expensive repairs.
I think I'll try to find a truck with a 6.2L... but might be hard... and might have a billion miles on it.
I'm gunna wait though and see if we move, if we move I'll have space to pull an engine. How difficult would it be to rebuild a 6.2?
Was there ever a factory turbo variant? Would it be worth it to turbocharge a 6.2? I don't think I would but, just curious.

Edit: I found this, but its 6 hours away and I don't have 1100 dollars right now, or I'd buy it.
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...QAdIdZ55641893

[AKMark]

I'm worried about mechanical failures and stuff, and expensive repairs.
I think I'll try to find a truck with a 6.2L... but might be hard... and might have a billion miles on it.
I'm gunna wait though and see if we move, if we move I'll have space to pull an engine. How difficult would it be to rebuild a 6.2?
Was there ever a factory turbo variant? Would it be worth it to turbocharge a 6.2? I don't think I would but, just curious.

Mechanical failures in my opinion are cheaper than the electrical ones associated with the newer diesels. The old 6.2's worked well and most of them last a long time. The injectors for a 6.2L are around $50 a piece whereas a set for a Duramax are closer to $400+ each.

A 6.2 is no harder to rebuild than a 350 gasser, in fact I thought it was easier. Here's a decent breakdown on what a rebuild will cost you. At least this is what it cost me in Alaska (where things are normally more expenseive) only a year and a half ago.

Block prep (machine shop will do this and will bore it out if needed) $500 they also installed new cam bearings and checked my crankshaft for this price.

Rebuild kit $900 (had the machine shop order this, for .030 over as that's what the block needed to clean the cylinder walls. It included 8 pistons, all new bearings, seals, gaskets, and frost plugs. I think that's all that was included, I could be wrong.

I paid $15 each for the machine shop to verify my heads were crack free. The main problem was that I had to pull all the valves and springs. The nice part was the shop tanked them, tested them, and put in new stem seals while I reassembled them at their shop.

I had a great machine shop with a great reputation, make sure you find one that has experience with diesels.

Add to the prices $320 for new injectors, $250 for an injection pump rebuild, a $80 set of new glow plugs, a $40 radiator power flush, and about $120 for new fluids, including an extra oil & filter change done after the first 200 miles.

These are some of my favorite trans guys. Bowtieoverdrives.com Done business with them and their products are top notch. Their level 1 kit would handle a 6.2L no problem. Just specify the 1200 rpm stall converter when ordering. For $1K, it's a good deal. You'll pay several hundred for a trans that shifts and who knows what shape it's really in till you've had it a few months. Their lockup kits are great, I've had them in five different 700R4's and by some miracle, none of them has given up, even the one that pulled my 10K trailer from Alaska to here.

[AKMark]

Edit: I found this, but its 6 hours away and I don't have 1100 dollars right now, or I'd buy it.
http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-veh...QAdIdZ55641893

If you are patient, keep an eye on craigslist, and you might find a steal!

[Gearstix]

About what mileage should a 6.2 be rebuilt?

[steponmebbbboom]

just a reality check, take it with a grain of salt if you wish, but id be hesitant to invest that kind of time and money on a minitruck that looks that rough.

for a first timer, especially a teenager on a shoestring budget, id be looking at smaller engines.

remember, that truck has a four cylinder in it, that means to drop a 6.2 in it not only the trans and rear end have to go as mentioned, but forget about the front suspension you have in there now.

and after all that, it's still been wiped hard across the nose.

youre young, this is your first project, lets keep your goals realistic and affordable so you can succeed.

[Gearstix]

just a reality check, take it with a grain of salt if you wish, but id be hesitant to invest that kind of time and money on a minitruck that looks that rough.

for a first timer, especially a teenager on a shoestring budget, id be looking at smaller engines.

remember, that truck has a four cylinder in it, that means to drop a 6.2 in it not only the trans and rear end have to go as mentioned, but forget about the front suspension you have in there now.

and after all that, it's still been wiped hard across the nose.

youre young, this is your first project, lets keep your goals realistic and affordable so you can succeed.

I've been planning on going airbags all the way around with a 3 link in the rear and a notch.

I'm sure the 6.2 is not my only option...
Is there any other simpler diesels I could put in the truck?
Rear end swap is no issue to me.

Heres some stuff I could get aswell for the 6.2
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

http://www.jegs.com/i/Dynomax/289/88332/10002/-1

Also, my uncle is a ticketed welder with a welding rig and my dad is a mechanic with a service truck.... so I don't think I'd have any issues with fab/repair..

[steponmebbbboom]

well, all the power to you if you can pull it off. i'm just looking at risk versus reward. you seemed a little less confident in some of your earlier posts here, sorry if i misunderstood.

you brought up cost, fuel mileage, mechanical failures and expensive repairs, reliability, all good arguments for a small engine (title of your post) that needs the least mods to your truck as possible.

you wanna go whole hog, be my guest. you'll find lots of support here either way. good luck!

[Gearstix]

Well, what are some of my options as regards to engine/trans combos?
6.2L, what else....? I dunno about VW diesel, im not sure where I'd find one.

Keeping the stock rear end might be a bonus... if I bag the truck, most kits are meant for the stock rear end.

[steponmebbbboom]

well any diesel jetta should have a nice little diesel in it, they were pretty reliable and great on gas. check the scrapyards and classifieds. not sure about what trans you could mate to it but the broader point i was making is that the indirect-injection diesel engines found in passenger cars would be more suitable to your conversion because they are lighter in weight, quieter, reliable, and also rev higher than direct-injection industrial engines.

6.2 is a good engine but it is a huge jump in weight and you definitely will have to change the whole suspension and driveline. there are members on this forum that have done the VW jetta engine conversion to various vehicles, a forum search should bring up those threads. i'll do a quick look and see if i can point you to someone.

[convert2diesel]

I know this is supposed to be a GM diesel site, and the 6.2 swap would be a great project buuuuut!!!! if you are looking for a brick solid, dependable engine tranny combo you would be hard pressed to beat the Mercedes 3.0 5 cylinder turbo diesel with the four speed auto. They were also available with a four speed standard but these are a little harder to find. These engines consistantly get 500,000 miles before overhaul and match your current engines power output pretty closely. Have seen some that have been dialed up to 150hp but don't know how that would effect their reliability.

The last ones were used in the 1985 123 and 126 bodies and are strictly mechanical. You could expect well over 40mpg with this engine and maybe considerably more. Certainly won't impress the boys on Saturday night but you won't be spending alot of bucks on rear tires.

It is a little heavy but as you say you are doing airbags and the engine and tranny mounts are easily fabricated. Would have to fab up a driveshaft yoke and will probably have to shorten the shaft. These are a high RPM diesel and most probably you won't even have to change the gears in the rear end. They seem to love 3,000 RPMs (about 65MPH) in the cars and redline (governed) at about 5,500RPMs.

Mercedes used a great vacuum pump on these engines and they were designed for vacuum brakes, thus no hydro-boost needed. Wish there was a way to modify this pump to use on the 6.2.

Lots of parts availablity, reasonably cheap, and there is even some hot-rod stuff available. If you do want AC, Mercedes used the same compressor as the older (pre 93) GM trucks and cars.

Just a thought.

Bill

[steponmebbbboom]

i wouldnt disagree with bill's input, MB makes a good engine.
the search feature on this site doesnt allow for such a small search term as VW though im sure ive seen a conversion discussed here, but here is some more food for thought, visit this website:
http://www.rocky-road.com/diesel.html
the kit is meant for a suzuki samurai but with a samurai transmission and possibly alteration of your driveshaft, i doubt youd need much else to pull off the conversion. you could likely get the whole thing done and on the road for a reasonable price, especially if you find the engine and trans at the wreckers. you could also sell off your existing engine and trans to offset some of the cost, if theyre in good shape.

[gophergunner]

Nobody has mentioned this one yet.....but I recall my brother's roomate having a little toyota 4x4 reg cab pickup with an I-4 n/a diesel.

I even drove the truck after the engine was rebuilt. It started and ran great, sounded pretty nice too. But to be honest, it was gutless in even that small of a truck. The fuel mileage was great however, but I think it could have used a turbo.

Anyways, just one more option...

[Gearstix]

Only thing is where I live..
the junk yards are very picked over, theres not alot of selection.. I have to get my family to drive to Edmonton, Alberta, which is about 5-6 hours away.


You'd be very hard pressed to find a diesel powered car in the yards around Fort McMurray, theres only two here...

The gas engine in my truck now is known as the "gutless wonder". I'd like to swap in something that has a bit more jam, but still want to get decent mileage.

[gophergunner]

Fort McMurray eh...I spent a few summers up there working. Its only about 4 hrs drive to edmonton if you follow the flow of traffic.

Another thing came to mind, if you decide to venture out of Fort Mac for a motor, you could probably squeeze an Isuzu diesel into your truck. Should be quite reliable and long lasting engine, even if its used.

Just another though