Which Locker?

**Chris611** · 10-04-2003, 18:29

I would like to add a locker to my '97 K2500 before winter hits. I'm looking for advice on what locker will work best. Also how hard is the installation of the lockers in the 14 bolt FF'ers.

Thanks
Chris

StephenA · 10-06-2003, 08:40

I'd like to know too..
Anyone?

**GMCfourX4** · 10-06-2003, 09:26

I have a PowerTrax No-Slip in my truck. I had a Powertrax Lock-Right, but for the 14-bolt FF application, I can tell you that's not the way to go. Specifically for the 14-bolt FF, there are no side plates, the Lock-Right just uses the factory side-gears. I wore out one of these untis in about 1 year. They allowed me to upgrade for short money to the No-Slip under warranty, and so far I have been very happy with the No-Slip. One thing I will say is this - I do a lot of street driving around town, and having a locker (as opposed to a limited slip) is somewhat aggravating. In slow-speed turns, you HAVE to scrub one wheel, and it can be a bit tricky. In the snow, I love it, and it works very well in the rain. One other downside is that I go through tires almost yearly (maybe 35,000 miles?) If I were to do it again, I may decide to go with a good limited slip, but I'm not sure. Overall, I'm very happy with my locker. I haven't driven with any other types, but I know someone who blew up a Detroit in a 14-bolt FF in a Suburban with a built 454. The install isn't too bad if you know what you're doing, but DO NOT forget to count the rotations on the side-bearing adjusters when you loosen them. Once the carrier is out (mine was a factory open-diff), the install is fairly simple. If you do any towing, I would definitely reccommend a limited-slip over the locker, as the weight of the trailer doesn't allow for the tires to move as easily under slow-speed maneuvering, and can cause awful sounding slipping of the locker (which probably isn't good for things out back). Hope this helps!

-Chris

Uncle Wally · 10-06-2003, 17:50

A locker should ratchet at slow speed manuvering. It sounds terrible, but that's the way it's supposed to work.

What I want to do is get an ARB locker for the front diff to go with a detroit or auburn out back. That way you can contol when it's in.

Although - it's quite spendy for a solid axle truck. And I have no idea if they make them for the GM IFS front diff.

Waldo

britannic · 10-06-2003, 20:09

Originally posted by Uncle Wally:
A locker should ratchet at slow speed manuvering. It sounds terrible, but that's the way it's supposed to work.
Waldo

People think my rear diff is busted when I turn at slow speeds and the 14 bolt FF detroit ratchets, but those that know the CUCV M1028 just smile knowingly

...

**GMCfourX4** · 10-07-2003, 06:34

The locker does in fact rachet when turning, but only when there is no power applied to the axle. If you need to apply any throttle while in a tight turn (taking a turn from a stop, for instance) the power engages the locker, and you end up scuffing a tire. I've gotten a few looks from cops who aren't sure if I just lit 'em up in front of them

-Chris

britannic · 10-07-2003, 08:00

Originally posted by GMCfourX4:
The locker does in fact rachet when turning, but only when there is no power applied to the axle. If you need to apply any throttle while in a tight turn (taking a turn from a stop, for instance) the power engages the locker, and you end up scuffing a tire. I've gotten a few looks from cops who aren't sure if I just lit 'em up in front of them

-Chris

After removing 20,000 miles of tread life from my rear tires in just 6,000 miles of driving, I learned to apply only just enough power in corners to cut down on that problem. 'Course, when there's snow on the road or I'm out dirt trailing, I have a lot more fun

!!

**cruzer** · 10-07-2003, 09:41

The Powertrax/Lockrite are inexpenesive lockers.
They replace the spider gears in your diff carrier. You can get a lot of feedback thru the driveline coasting around turns.They work OK. A Detroit is about the best locker on the market and for the 14bolt FF is the cheapest of all Detroit's on the market. A Detroit replaces the
the whole diff carrier,and has a smoother operation than the Powertrax. It's more labor intensive to install. Both of these lockers are
are positive lockers, which means they are engaged all the time and will release 1 wheel for going around turns unless you are appling power around that turn. They will also allow your vehicle to fishtail if not carefull on wet or loose road surfaces because both wheels are engaged. It's not bad, but you need to be aware of this condition. The Eaton Govloc,which is what GM uses in their 14bolts, is considered a good highway locker. It engages when 1 tire spins more
than another. Approx 200 rpm difference. It's not a limited slip though. The locking device is only effective up to about 25mph. Going down the highway it basically runs like an open diff. If you are stuck and spin this locker over 25mph there's a good chance it will disengage & engage repeatedly, make alot of noise during this time and possibly explode. As for a limited slip, it engages when you make it, or when it wants to.
It is not very consistent in its operation.

The purchase of a traction aiding device is really going to depend on what you are going to use the vehicle for. I have a Govlok in my C2500
which works fine for my tow vehicle. If I were doing less towing and wanted an all around locker in my 4wd, no question it's Detroit. I would never consider a limited slip. I prefer positive lockers. Knowing they're engaged gives me predictability on how the vehicle will respond
in a certain situation.

My FJ40 has a Detroit in the rear and an ARB in the frt. I wouldn't have any other way. I used to have a Lockrite in the rear but it didn't like the new tire size and broke. They are also very noisy compared to the Detroit. Just my experiences.

[ 10-09-2003, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: cruzer ]

**GMCfourX4** · 10-08-2003, 05:07

Cruzer;
The Detroit for the 14-bolt FF does not replace the carrier. It installs in a carrier from a factory open-diff. This may be the only Detroit application like this, but I looked into getting a Detroit when I was looking around for mine.
As for the cornering/slipping, I found that if I didn't keep slight throttle pressure going around corners, sometimes it would not re-engage as smoothly as I would like, especially if I wanted to power out of the corner. In any kind of slippery driving condition (rain, snow, etc.) I personally think a full locker is the only way to go. It may cause fishtailing in most turns when its slippery, but I know exactly what its going to do at any given time. When I had an open diff in the truck, sometimes throttle would cause the rear end to slip, other times it would just spin 1 wheel, and I think its safer to always know what its going to do with a given amount of throttle...

-Chris

StephenA · 10-08-2003, 05:41

Anyone know what rear end is in my 92 K2500 8 lug? Is there a good limited slip or locker that won't chew up tires or fuel made for my rig?
Written on Axle:

2
CID 6
163
26011828

I think it's an INTEGRAL CARRIER?
If so, how does this compare to full or semi floating & what are the advantages of both?

**cruzer** · 10-08-2003, 06:24

GMCfourx4, I didn't realize the detroit for a 14 bolt was like that. All the ones I've seen
replace the carrier. Mine has a relatively smooth operation. Not much noise at all, maybe a clunk
once in awhile when out on the trail w/the FJ..

I'm with you, predictability and I would add, strength are the keys. The lockrite just didn't work well for my application. The detroit drives and works better. I just thought those who were asking, should know what the characteristics are.

StephenA. If you take the center cap off(hubcap)
the rear tire. Behind it you will see a big protrusion sticking out from the center of the wheel (it's part of the axle) w/8bolts. It sticks
out approx 3". That would indicate it is a full floating axle. Another way to tell is, look at the pinion on the diff. Just behind it on the housing you will see 6 or 8 bolt going around it.
They are not in a perfect circle & I can't remember exactly how many bolts there are. If you see the bolts that would also indicate it is a
14bolt ff'r. FF has tapered wheel bearings on the end of the axle housing to hold wt. and the axles slide thru the center of the bearings. The axle does not hold wt it just turns the wheel. Semi floating, the axle has flat roller bearings in the housing of pressed onto the axle. The axle holds the wt. & turns the wheel. FF is stonger.

Try pirate4x4.com. You should be able to find pictures.

StephenA · 10-08-2003, 13:55

Hi cruzer. Wonderful descriptions & website references. I verified that I have a 14bolt ff'r, which is nice to know. Stronger & easier to service than a pressed bearing semi floating. The 10.5" ring corporate diff is the same as the ones used in 1 tons. Basically its a Dana 70 with about 10 thousands inch difference in the ring, right?
So a Detroit 14 is probably what I'll want, if it's not too bad on tires. 'bout how much & where to git?
Thanks again

[ 10-08-2003, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: StephenA ]

Dieselboy · 10-08-2003, 16:15

Detroit all the way! It's the most economical locker for the 14FF, and as long as there's torque going to your axle, it's locked.

StephenA · 10-08-2003, 16:36

Found this:
http://nationaldrivetrain.com/shopsi...ml/page23.html

DETROIT LOCKER GM 10.5 - 30 SPL ALL RATIOS 14 BOLT FULL FLOAT NON C-CLIP
$399.95
225S10
DETROIT LOCKER GM 10.5 - 30 SPL ALL RATIOS 14 BOLT FULL FLOAT NON C-CLIP NOTE: MUST USE OPEN CARRIER W/THIS UNIT

Is this about right?

**cruzer** · 10-09-2003, 05:46

Some place I think I seen them for $330 or $350.
Try Randy's Ring $ Pinion.

JohnC · 10-09-2003, 06:32

For the average Joe, I'm a big fan of the factory locker by Eaton. The reason is that all the ones listed above are normally locked and unlock (sometimes) when necessary. The Eaton, on the other hand is normally open and locks when necessary. This gives a lot better directional stability in adverse driving conditions. Also, the Eaton will not lock if your speed is above 20 mph so you are less likely to find yourself suddenly facing the wrong way on a curve in the ice.

I agree that it is not the best option for serious off roading but feel that it is the best option for getting around town and country.

**GMCfourX4** · 10-09-2003, 06:50

Cruzer;
I would agree that the LockRite wasn't the greatest. Mine grenaded, though, and they allowed me to upgrade to their newer and stronger No-Slip for short money. The No-Slip is much better mannered, and performs much better. I can't compare it to a Detroit (never actually driven with one) but the No-Slip did get good reviews (in either 4-Wheeler or 4-Wheel and Off-Road). If I were to do it again, I would probably go with Detroit, but I'm happy with the No-Slip.

-Chris

StephenA · 10-09-2003, 08:09

Anybody else have any experience with the Eaton, or any other lockers that are normally unlocked?

**cruzer** · 10-09-2003, 10:04

That's what I have in my tow vehicle. Eaton Govlok. It's what GM uses from factory. It's OK, you just have to remember it unlocks around 20-25mph. If your stuck and need more wheel spin than that it will make a lot of noise, engaging and disengaging and trying to explode itself and they will eventually. I tow alot so I figure w/the added wt of trailer and camper, the rear tires are firmly on the ground. If a tire slips the other will find something hard to get traction.

[ 10-09-2003, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: cruzer ]

**G. Gearloose** · 10-09-2003, 10:22

The circa 1977 eaton on the 14b FF on my blazer doesn't lock. I hear there is some sort of sacrificial component that shears if the axle is abused at high rpm then suddenly grabs traction. Does anyone know of it or how easy it is to remedy?

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