Detroit Diesel

ok, so i think i'm a little obsessed with the old Detroits, but i just love the sound they make. Now i've been thinking for a while that i would like to have an old 2-stroke in a pickup truck but i'm not really sure which to use and even if i decide i will need some help on picking a transmission and transfer case combo.

so the contenders as of now are a 3-53, 4-53, 6v-53, or a 4-71

3-53 seems a little underpowered for my likings, but very economical and still has the great sound.
4-53 seems little better but i just have to watch the weight of the whole thing. these aren't exactly meant for pickup trucks.
6v-53 is supposed to have a fair amount of power and a bit higher reving
4-71.......well i was told the 71 series was the best engines detroit ever made

right now i'm leaning towards the 4-71 because i have found an aluminum bare block (no crank or head or any other parts) which works quite well since i would have rebuilt the whole thing anyways. The aluminum block will save me lots of weight, as its apparently only about 175 lbs according to the seller.

now i'm just wondering if anyone else has any input here, or if i should ditch the aluminum block for some cast iron, or else a different series engine altogether. don't even mention cummins because they could never make me as happy as an old detroit could.

if your curious about what i'm putting it in, i'm thinking about a 1969-1972 body style, 3/4 ton 4x4 gmc. of course i would start with this engine and build the truck from the groung up i think. if i'm going to do it i might as well do it right.

Quite a few have done the 453/453T in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks. Most have been very happy. The 6V53/6V53T will give you the maxim power, but like you said, a bit heavy. Have not seen a 471/471T in a pickup. Others have stated the additional height will make the install a bit tougher than the 453T. An aluminum 471T should give you good power and a reasonable weight engine. Tie rod, oil pan, steering, transmission hump, engine mounts are all issue that may have to be dealt with during the install. Saw a 671 in a 3/4 ton Ford, so if that can be done all else is gravy.

from the info i found online the 471 is only a few inches difference in height compared to the 453.

i just have a good lead on that aluminum block and i hate to pass it up if its a good and very possible conversion, but i also hate to waste my time if there is a better detroit option for a pickup.............but if a 671 can fit in a 3/4 ton i shouldn't have any trouble.

The 671 fit, but not without problems. No engine fan, used electric pusher fan on the bumper side of the radiator. Firewall was "extended" into the cab area to get the long 6 cylinder in. The guy got the 671 cheap, so did not mind the extra work to install it. A 471 should not have the fan/firewall issues. 2 inches is not much, but the clearance from steering/suspension to the hood are tight. A louvered hood could solve the issue.

well i'm going to try to get this 471 and rebuild it.....might take some time tracking down parts and that because its just a bare block. but i think a body lift might help solve any height clearance issues.

another problematic area will be clutch, transmission, and transfer case......don't even know where to start that would fit any of these detroit engines and would also work well for a pickup application

Transmission should not be a problem. Allisons auto's (old style AT545 or similar) or various manuals will bolt right up. Lots of old manual transmissions at local wrecking yards. I saw that aluminum block on ebay also. You might want to buy a "parts" 471 to get all the components you will need at a reasonable cost. Rebuild kits will have liners, pistons and that, but lots of small parts will be required, and buying them from a parts store could get expensive.

Take a look...........


http://videos.streetfire.net/video/6...3d011bba43.htm


twin turbo 6V-92 with 157 mm injectors...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craig M

Saw a 671 in a 3/4 ton Ford, so if that can be done all else is gravy.

---

I, too, once saw a 6-71 in a 3/4 ton Ford once. Seems like it was an early 70's or late 60's model Ford. I saw it at a truck and tractor show in Republic, Missouri.

I've seen a couple of other pickup trucks with 6-71's shoe-horned into them, but it is a tight fit and a lot of fabrication is necessary.

My dad has a 6-71 mounted in a custom truck he's building, but he now wants to find a 8.3L Cummins to replace it. He's decided the Detroit would be a bit loud for highway use.

Casey

i called up a local fellow who deals with old detroits and rebuilding and what not. i tell him what i want to do and the first thing he says is cummins 5.9 litre.........he's not discouraging me yet but the aluminum block on ebay is about to end, sorry if anyone else is planning on bidding on it, but i think i might as well take a chance on it because the aluminum ones don't come up too often.

just hoping for that last little bit of input someone might have about a 4-71 being a bad choice.........anything at all??

The Cummins is a good engine, but does not have the sound of a Detroit 2 stroke. An aluminum 471T will be a relatively light good torque diesel engine. If shipping was not $203 I might consider that aluminum 471 block.

$203 seems kinda cheap for shipping that thing..........

gotta spend my money on something, might as well be something unique that i enjoy:D

i heard a rumour that detroits are very expensive to rebuild though......i don't believe it yet because i was also told by someone else that there are so many parts available for them. anybody know from experience on this?

I see rebuild kits about $1200 for 6V53's. 471 should be less, just a bit harder to find.

I have heard of aluminum blocks for Detroits in submarines (what about the heads?) but never seen one.
Which did you see for sale? 4-53? 6V53?

I have always thought an aluminum 6v in a pickup would be incredible (if you have a LOT of sound insulation)

3-53 an 4-71 are freqwuently available with aluminum blocks. 3-53's from the GAMA goats.

Anyone have any weight specs on an aluminum DD?
4-53, 71?
6v53?
6v71?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by journeyman

Anyone have any weight specs on an aluminum DD?
4-53, 71?
6v53?
6v71?

---

I've got an aluminum 4-71 block and it weighs just under 200 pounds.

I think it's a bit hard to look at total weight of an engine. I suppose you can have an aluminum block, head(s), front plate and cover, rear plate and bellhousing. Many times, these were mixed and matched ie aluminum block/iron head, etc.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ARAMP1

I've got an aluminum 4-71 block and it weighs just under 200 pounds.

I think it's a bit hard to look at total weight of an engine. I suppose you can have an aluminum block, head(s), front plate and cover, rear plate and bellhousing. Many times, these were mixed and matched ie aluminum block/iron head, etc.

---

Wow, that was my first post in here. Sierra Hotel! I guess I'll introduce myself.

Welcome to TDP.

Now you broke the ice, you can speek up a little more often now.......

Whats ya gona doo with that alum block? Any project in mind?:D

It's going in my one ton Chevy. :D

Would love to see (specs, pics, applications...) of the 6v53 in aluminum. Any info?

Anyone?

They are only expensive if you are going to pay a shop to do it.... You can get a complete rebuild kit for a 4-53 for about $1200.
One cool thing about the 2 cycle DD is they dont have a central high pressure and high price injector pump just a continuous loop fuel pump and the injectors are mechanical... rocker activated plungers... you can loose an injector or two and they just keep running! The 2 stroke DD date back to WW II developed for the armed forces as a simple and reliable engine.
You can also thumb your nose at the Oil Barrons! How? In warm climates you can run the Detroit Diesel On well filtered waste fryer oil or in cooler climates Preheat WVO & Block.... Google treehugger they ran a 2-71 generator on strait WVO for 40,000 Hrs (if my memory serves me) then donated it to a NY Museum were it's still chugging away!
FREE FUEL!!!

None of us are as smart as all of us.

its hard to not want such a great sounding engine with a strong history of reliability. if my memory is correct, the 71 series was produced for about 60years before it was discontinued.

there are a few videos on youtube of a 1964 chev 1/2 ton 4x4 with a 3-53 from a gama goat in it. he claims 28 mpg on the highway. pretty good for a full size 4x4. and it sounds pretty damn nice

i definately want to get a detroit diesel into a pickup truck one day, but most people around here are very discouraging and always say "an easier and better engine to swap in would be a cummins"......i don't want a cummins though

but if i can find a good engine, running or else in need of rebuild then i think my project will be under way.:rolleyes:

I had a 4-53 in an IH travelall. Things I disliked: Noise (but that is exactly what you LIKED), fuel economy (only got 12-13 mpg). Things I liked: Power and torque.
My boss had a 4-71 in an old work truck and it always sounded a lot more "sedate" than mine (lower rumble, smoother), not sure why.

If you want to go with the aluminum 4-71, I would recommend investing in an Allison 1000 transmission (if you want A/T) or one of the newer 6 or even 7 speed manuals. The DDAD's rev like there's no tomorrow, but they don't like to lug. Right gears will make the whole experience a LOT better.

well if i were to do this, i'm thinking of a pickup truck size here, and 4x4 as well. but preferably manual transmission. just seems to me that a 4-71 is a bit taller and heavier, and a 6 or 7 speed for it would be a fairly heavy transmission as well. would make me worry about the front axle a little.

my dad still has a 1969 gmc 9500 tandem axle truck on the farm. he uses it every spring and fall and it doesn't seem to let him down. its got a 6-71 that has been rebuilt twice, the second time was due to a broken crankshaft from the first rebuild which was only about 100 miles old at the point of the second rebuild. but even if those engines don't usually like low rpm, this thing could tear its own brakes apart in low gear............

i grew up on the farm and listening to that truck throughout the years made me love the detroit diesel sound. which is why i am wanting one in a pickup truck now:cool:

To bad your so far away. I have a 4-71 but it has a cast iron block. all the parts are there needs an overhaul tho...........even have an inline bell housing that's aluminum for an automotive application

The problem with the 471 or any other 71 series engine is that is has a longer stroke than a 53 series and it cannot turn to as many RPM. A 71 series can't be turned past about 2600 while a 53 can be turned as far as 3200 safely. The advantage of a 53 is that you can take the back housing off an aluminum block 353, some of them had a back housing that would bolt to a chevrolet bell housing. I've got one I'm fixing to put in a 1985 Chevy 1 ton, It is a 453 Cast iron block, a back housing off an aluminum 353, it will bolt to the existing bellhousing and a 4 spd manual tranny. The only problem is that the housing won't fit a 6v engine. I work for a man that specializes in 2 stoke detroits, he is awesome at all of this stuff. He had one of those 353s with the chevy bolt pattern in a half ton truck, but he wrecked the truck. Still has the engine, complet with bellhousing and motor mounts, I think I'm going to buy it, as its only $1250 and I think it might be great for a project down the road sometime. I am going to see how the little detroit does in the truck, if I like, I'm going to have it rebuilt as a turbo motor later. A 453 turbo would give you all the power you need, they used to put them in ton and half chevys, but I am looking at one day having a 6v53t with an Allison Auto behind it, that would be ideal for a 1 ton, plenty of power.

even if the 71 series doesn't rev as high, a 4-71 would have enough torque for some 3.08 gears and appropriately sized tires i think.....i would really be worried about engine dimensions and weight really.

like i said before, i keep getting discouraged about this kind of conversion from anyone who deals with detroit engines. you'd think they'd encourage me and try to sell me some stuff.

i noticed some pamphlets at the detroit dealer in edmonton for rebuilt 53, 71, 92, 110, and 149 series engines, but i didn't dare ask about it cause i'm sure they don't come cheap for a full rebuild from those guys. but i'm keeping my eye out for a good used one, hopefully still in running condition, but if someone were to have a good setup with the correct bellhousing i would consider buying it. the cost of shipping might be worth it since i'm not having much luck around here. or else a nice road trip to pick it up:confused:

I really think U should go with a 53, a 4 if possable............6V U need a shoe horn to get it under the hood. I have specialized in the 2 strokes since 1971,22 years with Peninsular Diesel who was the distributor for Michigan.Feel free to scratch my head anytime always willing to throw my $0.02 worth in if it helps Great if not ...............OH WELL:rolleyes:

i'm willing to take any advice and tips i can on this topic.

judging from the views on the 2 detroit diesel threads, i think this is a popular topic really.

i am currently working on my 89 blazer for my off-road buggy, but once that thing gets up and going i think i will focus my time on this detroit diesel pickup dream i've been having........

my dream goes as follows.....not sure on which engine exactly, but leaning towards 4-53, NV4500, NP205 all supported on a K2500 or 3500 frame with 14-bolt full floating rear end and Dana 60 front end to support all that weight.

as i said, dream so far, but if its not possible to use an NV4500 without expensive adapters and whatnot, then i'll use an SM465. however, i will welcome all clues, tips and hints about adapters and correct bellhousings here. i asked a fellow at Novak Conversions but he has not gotten back to me yet. and i'm willing to use a different t-case if it saves me trouble in my build-up.

also, if anyone seems to have any good leads on a good engine, aluminum block would be nice, feel free to send me some info. i am in canada, so distance may be an issue, but sometimes ya just can't turn down a good deal if it comes along.

costs add up, but the uniqueness of the truck is worth it in the end:rolleyes:

Hey guys- I am new to the forum and have been reading up on your posts. I recently purchased 2 DD 4 53t's with intent of repowering my old jeeps. In my J10 I have swapped in 1 ton axles and a divorced NP205 which I with couple to an Allison 545 behind the 453t. I hope it works OK. In my '77 Cherokee I have GM HD 3/4 axles from a '73 C20 4x4. I would like to use a manual transmission but need some help with choosing one that will work. I got the GM axles from a neighbor who still has the rest of the '73 C20... could the transmission and T-case possibly bolt up? I have never worked on anything other than older Fords so I am not sure on what will swap. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

PS Would a 353 be better in the Cherokee?...bought the 453 cause it was CHEAP! Maybe I should swap???

i always keep an eye out on ebay, might strike a deal one day.

personally i'd think a 3-53 would be enough for a cherokee, since a fellow repowered a 1964 chev 4x4 with a 3-53.......he's got videos on youtube that i just love to watch:cool:

I know I've worn out the mouse button for the past month clicking play!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tjmac77

I know I've worn out the mouse button for the past month clicking play!

---

good to know i'm not the only one with the detroit diesel obsession:rolleyes:

Do you know if the 453 and 353 have the same bell housing pattern...hate to sound stupid. Am I wrong thinking the 353 is a DOT 3 and the 453 is a DOT 4? I keep coming up with conflicting info when I search the web. Will a particular Chevy bell housing bolt right up or is there a lot of modifying involved?:confused:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tjmac77

Do you know if the 453 and 353 have the same bell housing pattern...hate to sound stupid. Am I wrong thinking the 353 is a DOT 3 and the 453 is a DOT 4? I keep coming up with conflicting info when I search the web. Will a particular Chevy bell housing bolt right up or is there a lot of modifying involved?:confused:

---

sorry, not sure exactly. i myself am still wondering whats required to make a chevy transmission bolt up. the guys at the local detroit dealer told me that they use SAE #1 bellhousings on the motors. and he never specified what size or series though....

the inline rear housings will interchange, I think there are 3 maybe 4 different different size openings for the flywheel and clutch assembelies. they also have adapters to fit different applications to power transmissions PTO's or hydraulic pumps. WHEN you start getting down to the nitty gritty of putting this thing together I can fax you a sheet with the spec's and measurements........have to dig it out of the archives

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeezilDoc

the inline rear housings will interchange, I think there are 3 maybe 4 different different size openings for the flywheel and clutch assembelies. they also have adapters to fit different applications to power transmissions PTO's or hydraulic pumps. WHEN you start getting down to the nitty gritty of putting this thing together I can fax you a sheet with the spec's and measurements........have to dig it out of the archives

---

ok.......this is whats mostly been holding me up from avidly searching for an engine. i have a 79 pickup sittin around that needs some good axles, but meanwhile it has a 350, SM465, and NP205.

so i'm thinking the tranny and t-case will work just fine for me, as long as i can get the transmission bolted up to a detroit engine and get a clutch that will work with this thing.

what can you tell me about the engine to transmission adapters? maybe you have a part number from general motors or detroit diesel??? any help would be appreciated. thanks:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by reighna

They are only expensive if you are going to pay a shop to do it.... You can get a complete rebuild kit for a 4-53 for about $1200.
One cool thing about the 2 cycle DD is they dont have a central high pressure and high price injector pump just a continuous loop fuel pump and the injectors are mechanical... rocker activated plungers... you can loose an injector or two and they just keep running! The 2 stroke DD date back to WW II developed for the armed forces as a simple and reliable engine.
You can also thumb your nose at the Oil Barrons! How? In warm climates you can run the Detroit Diesel On well filtered waste fryer oil or in cooler climates Preheat WVO & Block.... Google treehugger they ran a 2-71 generator on strait WVO for 40,000 Hrs (if my memory serves me) then donated it to a NY Museum were it's still chugging away!
FREE FUEL!!!

None of us are as smart as all of us.

---

Google Green-trust to find web site, 4,000 hrs is correct, $600 for 4-53 kit...

I am new to this forum. I am looking for any information on getting maximun HP out of a Detroit 4-53 engine. The engine is in a pulling tractor and currently turning it 3200 RPM with 100 inectors. Wondering if can do head work, camshaft work, etc. to increase HP? I can't run a turbo. Any information will be appreciated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DeezilDoc

I really think U should go with a 53, a 4 if possable............6V U need a shoe horn to get it under the hood. I have specialized in the 2 strokes since 1971,22 years with Peninsular Diesel who was the distributor for Michigan.Feel free to scratch my head anytime always willing to throw my $0.02 worth in if it helps Great if not ...............OH WELL:rolleyes:

---

I am new to forum. I would like to scratch your head on getting max HP out of a 4-53 Detroit. appreciate any help.