View Full Version : Wont start...Again!
CRUZILLA
10-05-2003, 11:09
My 02 D/A just cranks and cranks but wont fire up. I don't smell any fuel out the pipe during this. A few hours later it will start smoetimes. Stock truck and the dealer cant find the problem. This is the fourth time and I won't give it back to the dealer for a week to hear.."Drive it until it does it again".. has anyone else gone through this? :mad:
Its your security system. Turn your key to the on position and wait for 20 min., cycle the ignition and start it. It happend to me lots with my 2001, and 2 times so far with my 2002
Cheers
Bear
[ 10-05-2003, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: bearman ]
CRUZILLA
10-05-2003, 13:28
Leave it in the on position for 20 min or 20 sec? And this will clear the problem when it won't start... or do this now to reset the system
?. Thanks for your help
Leave it in the on position for 20 minuits and it should clear the problem when it won't start. You must be doing something to pi$$ off your security system. Does the message center flash security? Do you have a remote starter installed?
If it is indeed the VTD system, it should have a code in history.
I'd try the primer pump.
Do you have a remote start on it?
CRUZILLA
10-06-2003, 18:07
Yes I do have a remote starter on the truck..why? I did play with the hand primer once and thought that was what started the truck but the dealer said "No way the system lost prime".. so I was thinking it might be a computer problem..
dmaxalliTech
10-06-2003, 18:47
The remote start would be the first place I would look, in order for those units to work, they must bypass or supply a fake signal to satisfy the theft module.. Thats the biggest reasons I dont like them things....
Eric
Inspector
10-06-2003, 18:50
Just tonight the truck would not start. The OEM filter pump was soft. I pumped it about 7 times and the truck started right up. I have been noticeing that it would crank a bit longer than when it was new. New and until recently it would be running instantly it seemed. Now it takes longer. I'm with John on this one. I have no leaks at all.
What is the fix John? A new filter module?
Or just change the filter. It is definently looseing prime.
Denny :mad: :mad: :mad:
Barring any leaks, I believe we (especially those in higher elevations and hotter climates) are running with a constant vaporization (also termed as outgassing here) occurring in the lines. The only fix is to put the fuel under pressure IMHO.
Secondary fuel filtration REGARDLESS of flavor is also a good idea. Again regardless of flavor, I believe this filtration should come AFTER the OE "screen" which is a bit tougher to plumb on EGR equipped trucks...
Cruizilla,
Try the primer thing, and retry immediately. If it does not work, wait 10 minutes and it should fire right up. No need to leave key on, just wait. Mine has done this on occasion, but
only when I hit the remote start. The VTD module in your remote start may be intermittently throwing the incorrect signal, but lets clear up the air possibility first as it is simple...
Has it ever happened when you started with the key?
Inspector
10-06-2003, 19:44
John:
I parked the truck about 45 mins ago and pumped the filter up tight. Just went out and found that the pump was soft again. Took about 5 to 7 pumps to get back solid. Is there a check valve in that head that may have gone bad?
Denny
Inspector,
I don't remember the exact spec from the Helm's manual since it's over 6 months ago...
It is normal for there to be 'leak down' after pumping up the primer. IIRC if you attach the fuel restriction gauge and pump up the primer, you should be able to maintain (+) pressure for a few minutes.
How many miles on your fuel filter? Hard starting was one of the first problems I had when my OEM Racor failed with 3K miles on it.
Inspector
10-06-2003, 20:43
MDRAG:
I have about 6200 miles on the original filter.
I am going to change it tomorrow. I hope that is the problem. Going to Calif on the 15th with the trailer. I sure don't want to be waiting for part from GM this close to departure.
Denny
The system will not hold pressure. There is a check valve in the OE filter head, but it pushes through the gears of the pump to the return...
Inspector
10-07-2003, 10:33
Changed out the fuel filter. Total miles on the filter is 6658. It seems to start ok but time will tell. I'm letting it set for a few hours to see what happens. After sitting overnight it started ok this morning. Go figure.
Denny
Lone Eagle
10-07-2003, 14:44
You absolutely cannot hold a constant pressure on any hydraulic system. Some will hold quite a long time but eventually they will leak down. Later! Frank ;)
Inspector
10-12-2003, 18:07
Well no start again. Truck hadn't been setting for more than 45 mins and had to pump primer to get it started again. All seems fine when running. I'm not liking this much. :mad:
Denny
Lone Eagle
10-12-2003, 18:20
Inspector, I would check every fitting/connection from the pump to the tank. Sounds like you could be pulling in air. Later! Frank
Inspector
10-12-2003, 18:36
Frank:
Thats on the agenda first thing in the morning.
Also got a another problem befor I leave on Wed.
The furnace in the house needs replaceing. If its not one thing its another.
Denny
dmaxalliTech
10-12-2003, 18:38
When you pressureize to 10psi with primer, measured at test port, it should drop to 2 psi in about 2 minutes
Eric
Inspector
10-12-2003, 18:42
Is that the port beside the alternator? If it is I'll have to go to the dealer have it tested unless you have another way to test it.
Denny
Something else to consider is that when you pump the primer pump the only thing that is seeing pressure is on the outlet side of the filter. Everything from the tank up to and including the filter threads are not being pressurized. The only way to check the upstream connectors and filter assy. is to isolate and test that section.
Inspector
10-12-2003, 19:38
Point taken.
Thanks
Denny smile.gif
I'd just like to point out for the record that this is a STOCK fuel system. There was doubt/skepticism when I referred to stock occurrences of no start in light of the occasional no start with my Mega kit.
The air is there. It comes out of the fuel as we drive. Conversion to pressurized lift, while unnecessary, eliminates this in my experience. It just so happens that Inspector's truck is more susceptible, OR has a leak somewhere...
Inspector
10-13-2003, 15:54
Just went out and looked at all the fittings and clamps as I could see. Everything looks ok but the losey spring clamps that GM uses may be part of the problem. All is dry and seems to be tight. I spoke to the Diesel Mech at a local chev dealer and he had one occurance of no start that turned out to be 5 injectors returning to much fuel. Balance was good while running as well. The truck was an 01.
When I get back from CA I'm going to take it in and have it all checked out.
Thanks John for your comments. All I can get helps.
Denny
This is a prety simple diagnosis if it is fuel.The injector won't pop till 2500 psi.If you monitor fuel rail pressure you will probably notice it won't start till it reaches 2500(read extended crank)On A tech 2 scan tool, data 1, find fuel regulator return in ml cubbed.(sp) It should be 800-1400 mm3 at idle warm. If it reads higher than this there is an injector returning to much fuel.(It could also be a regulator but not as likely) First you narrow down which bank then which injector.The spec I believe is 20ml in 15 seconds of cranking per bank and 4-6 ml per injector.(not positve).Many make the mistake of replacing the bad injector and not retesting the fuel return. Once you fix a gross leak you must retest because the rail pressure is now higher.This is why many trucks get one injector replaced and then a week later need another one.The other injector was probably bad also but didn't show up because of the gross leak dropping rail pressure.
You can also monitor theft status on scan tool if you suspect this.
The fuel return rate on the Tech 2 is on fuel data (F2), not data 1 as I previously stated.
On fuel knock issues I have had great sucsess with BG 44K fuel injector cleaner.This is a cheaper alternative for non waranty and also less evasive under waranty.GM (of course) does not approve use of any injector cleaning.I have seen injector balance rate go from 4-6 to less 1 in 15 minutes of driving after 44K. Just my experience. The last truck had 200k miles on a 02 with the original injectors. It had a severe knock on acceleration with high balancing rate and was immediatly addressed with 44K.This truck also had the original fuel filter system only.
midwest,
What is BG 44k fuel injector cleaner?
thanks,
Geerrhead
10-18-2003, 15:55
Chipper,
Bg is a company that supply's many chemicals to the dealer level. They have quite a few different products. They basically condition every fluid in the vehicle. The 44K is an injector cleaner that goes in the fuel tank. It is less agressive than the injector cleaner used during the injection cleaning process. The 44K is designed so it loosens particles in small pieces. This is so it will not clog an Injector. I have used there products for many years. I have used this product before disassembling an engine. I found the black "soot" was being washed cleaned, where the injector sprayed agianst the intake. I have only used it on gas engines. Obviously, it could benefit the diesel's as well. ;)
Dr_Crane
10-19-2003, 16:55
Inspector: I had exacty the same problem as you and it turned out to be 3 bad injectors. So IMHO midwest is right on the money, that is the next test that should be done. Experience has told me that the dealer might not want to do this right away as it tends to be a costly proceedure and according to the book there is a series of other tests that need to be done first (vacuum tests on suction side... blaah blaah blaah...)
Cruzilla If you think about it , the primer pump has to have two check valves. One for pickup and one for push. My 2003 had that problem and the engineers relpaced my injector pump twice, the fuel tank once and a check valve on the pickup pump twice. I finally got tired of the dumb repaires that did not work and ask the dealer to replace the "Fuel Managment System" Meaning the filter,Prime pump and all hoses to the injector pump. That ws 7000 miles ago and have had no trouble since. A pin hole somwhere down stream of the filter caused my problem.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.