View Full Version : OEM Racor Fuel Filter with Lift Pump
a bear sent me a low mileage OEM Racor fuel filter, used for 4.5k miles with a fuel lift pump. I cut it open for inspection and the pictures are posted here (http://community.webshots.com/album/91806272mLISUS). If that hyperlink does not work, click the second link in my sig and choose the DURAMAX FILTERS II album.
This filter shows no banding or striping - just even usage of the entire filter media. The color of the media is hard to appreciate, but it appears more like wet cardboard color and is NOT black. Pretty much what I expected to see. I'm going to cut in half to see what that shows.
Thanks Tommy. http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif
Mdrag,
What you describe above is exactly what should happen when the fuel system is under pressure. There has been an article floating around here on TDP that describes how a filter works when under suction. The filter is partially filled with fluid on the dirty side. That explains the bands on the filtering media.
The filter can looks rust free. Pretty amazing difference when comparing some of the other rusted fuel filters you have shown on your links. I wonder if Tommy is using an emulsifying additive?
By the way, I used my Tavia filter cutter this morning. Sure is better than using a hacksaw. Thanks for the recommendation on the tool.
Alan
[ 10-04-2003, 02:08 PM: Message edited by: OC_DMAX ]
We cut open a frame mounted 2 micron Pre OEM Racor (R60) filter
at 10,000 miles.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/86589312/93440727cYcYFJ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/86589312/93447742HNHOzK
This filter also shows no banding or striping - just even usage of
the entire filter media. As I have posted privately..... I'm seriously
considering moving my post OEM filter to the pre OEM location and
I really don't want to monkey with a lift pump.
"The truth is out there"
[ 10-06-2003, 07:56 AM: Message edited by: 56Nomad ]
56,
There is no disputing the fact that a PRE or Post OEM RACOR 2um filter without a lift pump will yield pristine fuel that exceeds the ISO targets we need for our IP and Injectors. OC_Dmax has proven it! http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif
However, the caption for the OEM Filter picture (http://community.webshots.com/photo/86589312/86592687VoaxDX) you referenced says it had 30kmiles on it. It’s well documented that a filter under a vacuum will only be partially filled with fuel and that the fuel level rises as the filter media is used-up (Suction / Vacuum Side Fuel Filters (http://www.baldwinfilter.com/engineer/pdf/94-6r.pdf)). I don’t mean to ignite another fuel filter “war zone” but IMHO, the filter in the picture was just simply “full” when it was removed and one cannot conclude that it was uniformly covered with fuel throughout its 30kmi life (or the 10kmi portion with the secondary filter). If it had been checked at intervals earlier than 30kmiles, it would most likely have had the characteristic “banding” that we have seen with other OEM filters operating under a vacuum (mine did at 9kmiles without the LP). Another cut-away filter picture (http://community.webshots.com/photo/86589312/86593798mJiiyE) at the same webshots page is a good example how fuel filters will be progressively used up from top to bottom in vacuum operation.
smile.gif
[ 10-05-2003, 05:13 AM: Message edited by: jbplock ]
Bill,
Sorry to have confused the issue with the
photo of the OEM filter which is clearly "full"
at 30,000 miles..... I will change the photo in that link
to only show the frame mounted filter cut open.
Edited photos http://community.webshots.com/photo/86589312/93440727cYcYFJ
http://community.webshots.com/photo/86589312/93447742HNHOzK
Yep, I'm more interested in the photo of the frame mounted,
Racor Pre-OEM 2 micron cut open filter with 10,000 miles on it.
It was the same frame mounted set up as OC_Dmax.
When we cut this frame mounted primary filter
open, I did not see the characteristic banding
and it appeared that it was uniformly covered with
fuel even though working under a vacuum. Perhaps
this could be part of the reason why OC_Dmax fuel
sample was so exceptionally clean.
OC_Dmax, do you have a photo link of your frame
mounted racor filter cut open?
[ 10-05-2003, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: 56Nomad ]
Originally posted by 56Nomad:
...Most likely the OEM filter in this pre OEM set up will easily last
30,000 miles. 56 Nomad,
Running the OEM Racor for 30K miles is not a good idea under any circumstance. Don't forget the recommended GM service interval for the fuel filter is 15K miles. A few forum members reported that GM had sent them a notification stating that PROOF of fuel filter replacement would be required if fuel system related warranty work was needed :eek: I'm planning to service the OEM Racor fuel filter @ 7.5K miles, or every other oil change - which ever occurs first.
It sounds like you are comfortable with the OEM Racor fuel filter as the last line of defense for your fuel pump and injectors. I do not share this level of confidence in the OEM Racor given the rusting and end cap separation problems that I've experienced first hand. Here's the pic from my TDP MEGA FUEL FILTER KIT REVIEW (http://www.thedieselpage.com/reviews/megafilter.htm):
http://www.thedieselpage.com/reviews/megafilter01.jpg
When/if GM and Racor fix these problems, then I will reconsider my position. Don't forget that forum member Racor indicated that they are 'working on it'. This is very impressive, considering that forum member Racor stated that these were the first cases of end cap separation that he had seen since the program began - and they were pursuing a solution within 24 hrs of discovering problems, and did not express any desire to inspect these failed filters.....
OC_DMAX,
I'm pleased that you found the Tavia recommendation acceptable, enjoy.
Here's the link to the PRE-RUSTED OEM FUEL FILTERS/CONCERN! TOPIC (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=006802;p=1) mentioned in my post.
mdrag
Looks GOOD!
If things go well, I will be changing mine mid week prior to thr GR trip. For grins I strapped a Filtermag to the side of mine to see waht it attracts...
Lone Eagle
10-05-2003, 17:54
Bill, I think you better go back and read your own article again on vacuum side fuel filters. I could not find the section that said the filter was used from the bottom to top. Later! Frank
Mdrag and all,
I withdraw my comment about going 30,000 miles on the OEM.
You're correct in that it should be changed at the recommended
interval @ 15000 miles regardless of what system you're using.
COULD THIS be THE IMPORTANT POINT:
The frame mounted pre OEM filter whether it be CAT or Racor
lays below or at the level of the diesel in the fuel tank. I think
this is the reason that the entire filter and medium is "full" of
fuel all the time and hence we don't see stratification or banding
when those filters are cut open. This is not the case when we
cut the OEM or under airbox fuel filters except when there is a lift
pump used and we change from a vacuum to a pressurized fuel
system. Aren't the lift pump advocates claiming that their
filters do better because the filter canisters always "full"
and completely immersed with the passing fuel?
You fuel experts..... please advise if my thinking is wrong.
Am I off base?
56Nomad,
"COULD THIS be THE IMPORTANT POINT:
The frame mounted pre OEM filter whether it be CAT or Racor
lays below or at the level of the diesel in the fuel tank. I think
this is the reason that the entire filter and medium is "full" of
fuel all the time and hence we don't see stratification or banding
when those filters are cut open."
I had similar thoughts....or the filter media was already used up by 10K miles and MIGHT have shown banding if checked earlier... :confused:
mdrag
Originally posted by Lone Eagle:
…I could not find the section that said the filter was used from the bottom to top. Later! Frank Frank, Good catch! My appologies, you are correct. The Baldwin paper only explains the why a suction side filter can be partially filled with fuel but it does not explicitly state that a filter is used up bottom to top. However, one can draw this conclusion from what is stated in the paper. Since the dirty side of the filter in a suction system can have a vapor pocket at the top, the fuel will flow through the filter below the fuel/vapor barrier. And, as the filter media fills up, the fuel/vapor barrier will also rise. There is a interesting illustration (http://www.davcotec.com/pages/seeinganim.html) of this filter vapor behavior on the Davco Website.
COULD THIS be THE IMPORTANT POINT:
The frame mounted pre OEM filter whether it be CAT or Racor
lays below or at the level of the diesel in the fuel tank. I think
this is the reason that the entire filter and medium is "full" of
fuel all the time and hence we don't see stratification or banding
when those filters are cut open. This is not the case when we
cut the OEM or under airbox fuel filters except when there is a lift
pump used and we change from a vacuum to a pressurized fuel
system. Aren't the lift pump advocates claiming that their
filters do better because the filter canisters always "full"
and completely immersed with the passing fuel?
My thoughts exactly. I also feel that a filter that is not completely filled on the dirty side will produce a sloshing effect during driving that would wash the dirty side and and reduce efficiency. I often wonder if Racor tested the OEM under our conditions. This may be the reason it does not perform as it should.
GM Smitty
10-06-2003, 13:16
Here's my picture of my pre-OEM Racor before with 4800 miles on it, no lift pump.
http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL72/839020/1506334/26400934.jpg
It seems the media was being used from the bottom up, not evenly distributed throughout. :confused:
Josh
Well, I just did it. Changed out both my filters
and cut them in half. The photo shows the
stratification with the Post OEM....
What also strikes me is the amount of crap
that made it thru the OEM and was caught
by the Post OEM :eek:
BTW, no rust in either canister.
I'm now in the process of moving the Racor
filter assembly back under the frame, but
wanted to post these photos before I got back
under the truck :D
http://members.cruzio.com/~quailman/OEM.Post.cut.jpg
[ 10-06-2003, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: 56Nomad ]
GM Smitty
I thought you had a Post OEM MEGA ....... w/lift pump ?
http://www.picturetrail.com/bigsmithers
GM Smitty
10-06-2003, 13:33
I do now. I was running the pre-OEM Racor for awhile (7500 miles). Switched for my own reasons. My old pictures from the racor set-up are still in my album.
Josh
dieselburb
10-06-2003, 17:54
56 Nomad and mdrag,
I think you might be on to something with the gravity feed/full use of media hypothesis. I see a lot of fuel filters at our dock and those that are mounted below the fuel tanks are always full due to gravity feeding the system. I use the shut off valves to verify this situation. Also, those filters (almost always the secondaries, but sometimes the primaries too) which are above the fuel tanks AND on the vaccuum side of the lift pumps are never completely full unless they clog. So I would concur with the statement that the fuel level follows the restriction in the filter.
Something else caught my attention about those of you running post oem racors. ALL diesel Racor filter heads have a check valve in them which MAY have been the reason there were never any no start issues with post oem racors and air (but alas, that topic's been beaten to death, THUD!). I installed a check valve in my Baldwin system without incident and one of these days I'll post photos to show everything.
Anyhow, thanks for all the info on the coolant filter install, cab air filter install, oil bypass install, wife blah blah filter install... Anyway, thanks!!! :cool:
Tinbender
10-06-2003, 19:38
Dieselburb, you stated:
Something else caught my attention about those of you running post oem racors. ALL diesel Racor filter heads have a check valve in them which MAY have been the reason there were never any no start issues with post oem racors and air (but alas, that topic's been beaten to death, THUD!).
I have to differ with you on this one as I installed a post oem Racor on a bracket as Lone Eagle did, next to the A/C, it worked fine for about 2 weeks and then we had a spell of hot weather, (hot at least for western Washington). I started to experience the die after starting problem, Started and ran fine after pumping the primer and bleeding the air. I moved the Racor assembly to under the air box and have had no problems since. Just returned from a 5000 mile trip towing to Illinois and never missed a lick. There sure are differences from one truck to another, Lone Eagle hasn't had any problems that I've read.
Bob
OC_Dmax, do you have a photo link of your frame mounted racor cut open
Howard,
I have not yet cut open a used R60S filter. My truck is only used for weekend outings with the family, thus the mileage accumulates rather slowly. In the pictures you posted above, it looks like your R60S filter mounted in the Post-OEM position had a lot of useful life left to it.
Dieselburb,
A number of us are using the 600 series Racor filter head. I don't believe there is a check valve present in these heads. Its a really simple head, you can see through the ports on the head. Possibly in the marine application, they are using a slightly upgraded filter head (more expensive also). Example, maybe the 400 series Racor filter head which has an integrated primer pump has the check valve. People have made comments on this forum that the Racor OEM filter head on our DMAX's has a check valve associated with it.
Alan
Dieselburb,
I read your signature and noticed the following "BF7635 2 micron custom head prefilter and BF7639-D 1 micron post oem".
I find it amazing that you are using the Mega filter element (BF7635) as a Pre-Filter to another finer Baldwin filter (BF7639). (According to the Baldwing website, the BF7639 is a couple inches larger than the BF7635! So maybe it is the new Mega filter.)
Can you elaborate more on your filtering set-up? What are you using for filter heads on these filters, where did you mount these two large filters, are you using a lift-pump, have you had any problems with trapped air, etc. From a technical point of view, its interesting to see all the unique combinations of fuel filter set-ups that people have developed over the last year.
(Oh, and after tonight, maybe you will be problem free.)
Regards,
Alan
[ 10-07-2003, 06:36 AM: Message edited by: OC_DMAX ]
Lone Eagle
10-07-2003, 12:38
The filters with a pump have to have at least one check valve to work. I believe that all the filters are full or near full if the system is tight and ha been properly bled. No matter where your filters are, the fuel has to go through both of them. What some of you are saying is that the media micron size is changing because one system has more vacuum, both filters are 100% full etc. I don't believe it. The fuel is going to take the path of least resistance. If the dirt is heavier than the fuel it is going to the bottom also. Who knows what that path is in each one of these filters. We need a lot more fuel analysis of the various systems before we will ever get a consensus. Later! Frank :rolleyes:
dieselburb
10-09-2003, 17:02
oc dmax, sorry about the late response. My modem went down as I was posting last and I wasn't even sure it made it. Anyway, true, upon examination of the 660 series heads, they don't have a check valve, so there goes that theory. I was basing my info on the turbine series filter housings.
The filter heads I'm using are baldwin ob1308, but i heated and removed the nipple and machined 6 new ones with integral post seal extensions like the ones kennedy uses. I've used two and have the rest for some of my harbor patrol buddies who want the same set up. I also drilled and tapped into the diry side of the filter heads to put an air bleeder at change times. I still have that annoying "loose rocker arm" sound but I know the injectors are loving life for a long time to come.
Yes, the 7639 is bigger than the 35 and the 7639-D is even larger than that. So I creatively (or so I think) have them mounted in front of the radiator on driver's and passenger sides. No lift pump yet, no problems yet (10,400 miles) but the increased vaccuum may cause some injection pump issues later. So I'll more than likely put one in at 0psi later on. I used all aeroquip hose with reusable flared fittings and have had no air issues whatsoever.
Now that things are slowing down at the dock, I've moved into my new house, we've had our baby boy and the weather's cooling off, I was hoping to poke around the truck a little more. I'll get a camera here next week and take photos. Are the photo post everybody's using free webpages or what? I may have to get one. Thanks, Cory
[ 10-09-2003, 09:20 PM: Message edited by: dieselburb ]
dieselburb
10-09-2003, 17:04
Arnold is now governor of "Kaulifornia". ;)
LanduytG
10-09-2003, 19:01
Here is a link that explains way the fuel filter is not full. Makes a lot of sence to me.
Link to why the fuel filter is not full. (http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/94-6R.html)
Greg
Ahem,
What if the fuel was vaporizing in the lines causing an accumulation in the filter head while the engine was running?
This vaporization is likely not occurring back by the tank...
My OE was "banded" when inspected. I now have a 5k OE filter run partly with a lift pump, AND a Filtermag.
For those with wheels turning on the Baldwin filters, the 7635 IS the better filter, and the best they have...
dieselburb
10-09-2003, 19:34
okay John, I'll bite. Why? I went with the bigger because the tech at Baldwin dropped all kinds of impressive filtration and Beta numbers. What's the main difference?
Dieselburb,
Thanks for the reply. It is interesting seeing the different filter combos people have come up with, especially those like yours, where you did a little "custom work". You may want to measure the vacuum at the test port to see what your system is doing. After installing my Racor assembly, I could not measure any significant increase in restriction using my Kent-Moore vacuum / presure gauge.
With regard to the picture websites, I don't have one myself (someday). Others have used "Webshots". About 15 posts above, look for "JBPLOCK". Click on Bill's (jbplock) "picture" link in his signature. It will take you to the Webshots site. You should be able to sign-up for a free site. While there, look at some of the installs on his truck and you will notice some simularities in the filtering systems the both of you have installed.
If interested, send me an email at "abetker@yahoo.com" and I can hook you up, email wise, with a couple of individuals who have installed lift pumps on their vehicles. Both have a wealth of info on the task.
And finally, lets hope Arnold has the political strength to "right the ship".
Gotta go,,,, last boating trip of the season to Lake Mohave.
Regards,
Alan
dieselburb
10-09-2003, 21:18
thanks alan, and have fun. We just pulled the boat back from bullhead and now i'm a regular at perris for early morning wakeboarding. I'll look you up sometime, one of my employees lives out your way and thinks he knows your truck. take care, cory
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