How long to change an injector?

[chuntag95]

My trucks in the shop and they found a bad injector. Yesterday afternoon, they said this afternoon. Now it looks like tomorrow morning. I was under the impression that changing an injector took about 4 hours. Am I thinking about a different brand? :confused:

[Kennedy]

Could be that they opened the wrong side. Not like that hasn't happened before. :rolleyes: They also likely had to test all 4 on the same side. They also likely found a bunch of crap in the line pockets, and are scratching their heads thinking it must be bad fuel etc. or they drove said craop into the injectors and need to go back in again. :eek:

By the time they get done screwing around, I think that they will find that they SHOULD have replaced all 4 and been done with it as you'll likely have another go on the same bank and need to go back in again.


I don't mean to sound so negative, but this is getting to be a common story. ALSO, the area reps are ball breaking the Svc mgr's to super scrutinize these things or face audit...

[ 03-20-2003: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>

[Jelisfc]

Kennedy, your comment "the area reps are ball breaking the Svc mgr's to super scrutinize these things or face audit..." please clarify. Are the area reps pushing for all four to be replaced or as few as possible? I'll guess the later but...

[chuntag95]

Well, they will have a hard time selling me it is a fuel problem. I asked about adding another fuel filter and both service writers and the tech all together agreed it wouldn't be a problem, but it wasn't needed because the OEM was good enough. :rolleyes: I asked if they were replacing all of the injectors and they confirmed only one. It's sad that I know more than the tech, but not uncommon so it seems. :( Too bad you and Dmaxalli Tech are so far away.

John, have you played with the preditor to see if you can see the injectors like on your tech2? I would be willing to get one if I thought I could diagnose a little better before I give it to them. My other scan tool is about worthless on my truck, but great on the wife's.

On my first big issue, I told the tech the cup seals were an issue and even the most common cyliner and they tested for that. The guy was shocked when I was right. Too bad it didn't save much time cause the waited a week to get the puller. ;) At least they listened and didn't tell me to buzz off.

[ 03-20-2003: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>

[Kennedy]

Yes, the Predator can see the injector balance, AND the screen shows the magic number of 8 lines!

I will caution that the balance rate data is NOT a definitive measure to be used for condemnation. It is only an indicator as to what the ECM is taking for corrective action on that particular cylinder. That said, it IS the best source of "at-a-glance" data that we have...

To expand on the Predator's capabilities as a scan tool, it covers MOST data points from all 3 sets of tables in the engine and fuel systems data. There are a couple of irregularties, and no-value data points, but I am told that they are, or will soon be resolved.

[ 03-20-2003: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>

[Kennedy]

As always, it is driven by the almighty $$$! If a shop has an exceptionally high number of warranty replacements, they are scrutinized. Problem is, that once a shop gets a reputation for being good, or sells a lot of these engines, customers with problems come to them for help...


Word is, they are looking VERY hard at finding a reman program to cut warranty costs...

[george morrison]

Regarding John's comment "Word is, they are looking VERY hard at finding a reman program to cut warranty costs..."
Yes, let's just stick your head squarly in the sand General Motors and not address what is Causing these premature failures!
And the service rep that additional filtration was not necessary in the same breath he tells you an injector needs replaced.. Sound logic indeed..
George

[chuntag95]

George and JK,
It's nice to have friends who see the irony of this. I realize the balance is only one indicator, but it might let me know when to take it back to them. I am afraid your prediction will come true and it will be back shortly. Have you run the Pred on your truck yet? Is it close to the original Juice? I wouldn't mind getting a little bit more from a "scan" tool. :D (Selling the wife on the filter is no problem as she was considering for my birthday next month, but the preditor might be a bit tougher.)

[ 03-20-2003: Message edited by: chuntag95 (Chris) ]</p>

[dmaxalliTech]

Ihave to agree with John on this one. If diagnosed correctly, it is a very lenghty process to do. Your first diag your worse injector, replace it, then reassemble it to the point you can test again, replace and keep repeating until you get them all corrected. Scan tool data will get you close, might give you a direction to look but will get you in trouble if you put your life onit. I unfortuanely learned this the hard way when we first started seeing these.

Our rep was in today and I mentioned something about the secondary filter, he said, Duh, you know dirt is causing our problems. I think his comments were off the record, but nonetheless....

Maybe JK and George and myself could get a mobile unit and go across country repairing d-max's!. I havent ever worked on one that wasnt under warrenty. Other then adding on filtration and accesories.

Chris, I have seen some of the people working on these trucks and regular people on TDP are probably smarter then most of them. These animals only share the fuel with 6.5 and most techs are "diesel guys" at the dealer, dont mean they can fix it... I have to admit, I would have a very hard time working on a 6.5,at least as far as diagnostics go. I took a liking to the D-max right away and am learning everyday, I really appreciate info from everyone on this site.

[chuntag95]

I understand how hard it is to trouble shoot some of these "fuzzy" problems like running rough, surging etc. I also know that the multiple electronic brains only make it better and worse at the same time. I know these guys don't have a bunch of experience on the Dmax yet and I would much rather it take them a couple of days and make sure it's right. If you don't have time to do it right the first time, etc. etc. etc. I commend you guys for jumping in up to your ears and working on creating improvements, upgrades and enhancements. I wish the techs at my shop were like you, Dmaxalli tech, and looked for information to expand their knowledge before they need it for my truck. If I take the time to try and figure it out, ask you guys, read all of the history and make a list of possible suspects, I wish they would do some of it as well. I will be interested to see what their opinion is on chips tomorrow. :rolleyes:

As far as the Preditor, I was thinking I could baseline my injectors and monitor them so I can see what "normal" is for my truck. Then, if something goes into left field, I can bring it in quickly to reduce any damage. I would hate to loose and engine like TLA(?) and melt a couple of pistons. :eek:

Let me know when TDP Ambulance is in my area and I'll bring her in for a checkup. :D

[chuntag95]

Well, got her back last night. 2 new injectors and all is well (so far). I don't know which cylinders as the tech was out at lunch. It's supposed to be on the paperwork they will mail. I did see one of the old injectors. Didn't look bad on the inlet and the cylinder portion had some soot, but not bad. They said the fuel was leaking around the crush seal and that caused the problem. Got a free oil change, (no filter) but all I can imagine is they got some fuel in the oil pulling the two injectors.
I asked about chips and the Preditor. They said what they don't know about they don't care about. Also told me the tech's Dad was eating mustangs in the eight mile with a bully dog chip. He said "With a Duramax!" I said I heard of a guy getting 430 RWHP on #2. It's good to have relationship with the service writter as well.

[torkinator]

Chris, just curious how many miles you have on your truck?

[N.E. TMRPR]

Just got my truck back today. The dealer had it for five days. I was setting two codes, Large fuel leak and turbo overboost. Technical told service tech to check all injectors. This was the first truck that they had ever done. The tech after doing the tests decided to replace all eight injectors. I also had a somewhat loud tick that started at around 34,000 miles and sounded like a loose rocker arm or exhaust manifold crack. The truck would also smoke a little when towing and excellerating. The tick and smoke is now gone and the truck runs even better than new, and I thought it ran very well originally. Here's the kicker, I have my own fuel tank in the yard and triple filter my fuel and almost never fuel up at stations, unless on a long trip. My truck has 79,000 miles and is maintained very well by me. The engine was spotless inside, no oil sludge on the heads at all. I think if my dealer had done more of the injector tests they would of done it faster.

[FirstDiesel]

N.E. TMRPR

You have well filtered fuel, but do you use an additive?? If so which one??

[chuntag95]

torkinator,
I had 22109 on it when I picked it up Friday. I use Stanadyne and Amsoil Cetain boost mixed at 1.5 the directions on both. I will probably try the stuff from JK after I use all of the Stanadyne. I buy my fuel at the same place (except on long trips) and when I cut my first fuel filter open at 15K, it was only a third up the media, so I it's not totally filthy. I am going to add JK's filter post OEM, I think. These failures might have to do with the injector cup seal leak that I had at 15K miles. Well, actually I had it as long as the truck, it just got bad and I took it in at 15K. It could have caused junk in the cyliner from "burning" coolant or when they put the injector cups and injectors back in, something could have been out of whack. The two injectors they replaced were both out of balance, flowing low. Just on a side note, those injectors were much bigger than I expected. Diameter was about right, but the length was about 2x. :eek: