Here it is: power box summary

[SoCalDMAX]

OK,

It

[mackin]

Steve only you can do it so well.......

Copy print for further reference,if needed.....This should be on top of frequently asked questions NEW forum for the "members" here .....

MAC smile.gif

[NFLDMAX]

Thanks for the summary.

[ccds]

SoCalDMAX

Nice job....great information

thank you

smile.gif

[CPMac632]

You didn't mention the second generation Van Aaken box. It plugs in like a juice but has a switch you can mount inside the cab. It is offered in two configurations 70,110 and 70,230. It alters pulse width and timing, and protects the trans if slip occurs in all programs but the 230 and it does work on manual trucks also.

[DMAXDiva]

Thanks Steve...

Well done! :cool:

[OC_DMAX]

Steve,

Excellent write-up of available aftermarket boxes. At the present time I do not have a performance box for my truck, but the Diablo Predator looks like the one I would be interested in. I will give it another 6 months for the bugs to be worked out.

One additional item you may mention about the Edge/Juice is that it is difficult to program with a manual 6 speed tranny. Others have posted that that company will address that issue in the near future.

Your post should be saved in a FAQ area on this forum. Then updated every 3-6 months. Once again, thanks for taking the time.

Regards,
Alan

[Diesel Freak]

WHOA! OK I've totally missed the Diablo box, where can I find more info about it? That would be the Sh... Stuff!!!!

[DMAX Daddy]

Im waiting it out for now, letting the chips fall as it were.

Banks has a toy coming out after the new year. My friend that pretty much gave me my Banks exhaust was in constant contact with them. (not an endorsement from me, just curiousity)

[Kennedy]

I'll add a couple notes here:

The VA Smart Box 2 is an up and comer, but it, like the other boxes has it's short comings and has experienced some problems already. Hopefully it will prove to be an excellent box.

The Duramaximizer has no direct effect on anything (like timing) but rail pressure. It is merely altering the pressure signal from the sensor. The later ones also use boost inputs as the APP circuits are not active when on cruise control.

On the TTS programming, you'd never tell the difference UNLESS you really knew what you were looking for OR you pulled the ECM and read it as a programmer would.

[NoMo]

Thank you VERY MUCH! This is exactly what I (and probably several others) was hoping to see! smile.gif

[c5dura]

Thanks for the great summary Steve!

One point about the Predator. Unless DiabloSports are marketing the diesel version differently than the gasser version, the unit WILL be locked to the VIN of the vehicle.

I know that before they introduced the LS1 version, there was talk of not doing this, but in the end it was decided the unit would be locked to the VIN. However, they did agree that for a nominal fee, the unit could be "unlocked" if you sell your vehicle.

The Predator will also act as a scan tool and can monitor various aspects of engine parameters, much like Autotap does.

More info can be gleaned from their web site:

http://diablosports.com

Click on "GM" for general Predator info.

Click on "DIABLO NEWS" and then "DURAMAX" for a blurb about the duramax version.

Rumor is it will add around 80 RWHP out of the box.

I also believe this unit WILL store the factory programming so you can go back to stock if going to the dealer and then restore afterwards (it will still be locked to your VIN once you load it into your vehicle the first time though).

[ 12-11-2002: Message edited by: c5dura ]</p>

[Rebel_Horseman]

A friend of mine that has a D-max said that he was going to buy a Hypertech programmer for his truck that is supposed to give decent power levels. Does anyone have any info on these units?

Reb [&gt;&lt;]

[SoCalDieselNewbie]

SoCal...

Just a few points.

1) TTS settled with 120hp for their race program because the extreme majority of trucks were holding that power level w/o the tranny going into limp.

What will blast the tranny in to limp is, if combined w/ a duramaximizer, not turning down the Maximizer when in 5th gear.

2) I am not so sure that the TTS is more expensive per HP than other units. In fact, I would contend that it is CHEAPER.

From B-D Power a juice box is $850 for 90 HP.

From PPE, a 3 position PCM is $895 for 120 HP.

A Hot Juice is what? an additional $300? for a total of $1150 or $1200 for 125 HP.

3) The dealer can't tell a darn thing on the TTS chip. Unless they are going to try to hack security... then write a decompresser... then go thru the instruction set (in HEXIDECIMAL)... it appears 100% stock.

And just a rumor that I heard thru the grapevine...

It might later rather than sooner for some of the chip guys.

[AzKevin]

I like the idea of performance mods running within ECM memory, it should be less expensive as there is less hardware (aside from the program module). And the horrors of the harness/connector also go away. Does TTS modify the ECM by adding their own memory and/or processor? If they don't then I don't understand how GM would be hacking security within their own ECM.

This also ties to my above question. In embedded systems, whenever flash memory is loaded with a new program, housekeeping information such as: version #, date, #times flash has been writen to, and checksum are written for sanity checks. From this information it's very easy for a diagnostic program to determine that someone's been playing with the flash. Does TTS use their own flash memory to bypass this issue?

[SoCalDMAX]

Thanks for the kudos guys, but I can't take much of the credit. All of this info was culled from John Kennedy's many posts as well as so many other forum members too numerous to mention.

Notice that JK is rapidly approaching 4,000 posts? I think I've read all of them from the past 2 years. Lotsa great info. I knew NOTHING about diesels before joining here, not to say I know much now.... ;)

Regards, Steve

[AzKevin]

Excellent work once again SoCalDMax... :D

From the TTS website it appears their solution is purely software downloaded to the ECM. So I'm baffled by some of the above claims. :confused:

Aside from that, the TTS website doesn't appear to have much advertised diesel product. Am I missing something here? Hasn't TTS been working on DMax products for some time? There is one note at the bottom of the page regarding Ford Powerstrokes. :confused:

What up???

[Kennedy]

Another thing I continue to see is LACK OF MAINTENANCE as a cause for many of these problems. I've talked or emailed with at least 4 people in the past 3 months with problems that were related to a 20k+ fuel filter change interval. :eek:

Three were Juice, and the latest was a Reflash/Maximizer combo. New fuel filter and it ran like an SOB again!

The number of units in use can also factor into the number of problems...

[GMCTRUCK]

If you guys in the know had to choose a box for the ZF trucks what would it be? I am look'n hard at the Powerloader but, have talked to some other poplular companies who claim to have "good things" in the works. I would like to raise the rev limiter and loose the speed limiter so I like the Powerloader. I am willing to wait since hear in CT they dump so much sand on the roads I can't find traction stock. I swear every time we get snow the local news turns it into a catastrophic blizzard event as if we've never gotten snow before.

[sdaver]

YOU SHOULD BE IN THE SOUTH WHERE 1 INCH OF SNOW EMPTIES ALL OF THE GROCERY STORES AND CLOSES THE SCHOOLS............ITS MY UNDERSTANDING THE IN CAB SWITCH FOR THE JUICE IS REAL CLOSE. LEAST YOU CAN STICK IT ON EBAY AND SELL IT IF YOU DECIDE TO REFLASH LATER..........I HAVE THE JUICE.........I WOULD BUY THE DIABLO JUST FOR THE SPEEDLIMITER AND TIRE CHANGE ABILITY. STILL WAITING AND ENJOYING MY HOT JUICE AND MY FLAME PROOF PERSONALITY :D DAVE

[sonofagun]

Steve,

A very helpful bit of data compilation! Thanks.

And as always, thanks to J.K.

Bob

[WayCoolKennel]

Thanks Steve,

FWIW, I just talked to PDQ performance and the predator is married to the vehicle.. period. It cannot ever be used on another vehicle..

--Steve

[JrTuner]

Another point about the Predator. I spoke to them at the PRI show in Indy last week. Their diesel box will not do anything with the Allison trans as of now. The same is true about their 8.1 box. They told me that the trans would require its own entire memory, hence box, in order to reprogram it, and they have yet to start working on it.

[ 12-15-2002: Message edited by: JrTuner ]</p>

[Dawg]

Outstanding job!! Thank you for taking the time to organize all the info!!

[sdaver]

predator and hypertech can't seem to crack the allison.........could you have two loaders one to flash performance one to flash back to stock.......there are some smart diesel minds out there... the one who makes programmer/loader work for the duramax/alli that allows user input(speed limiter on off,tiresize correction,shift firmness,rev limiter adj,web site to download and trade personalized program files,multible power levels) and has the abilty to retain stock or return to stock...........will definitely get my vote and my money.......mr cole, mr edge,mr wizzard,or whomever,are you listening............... :D dave

[ 12-15-2002: Message edited by: sdaver ]</p>

[AzKevin]

dave,

I agree. Having to purchase an ECM to restore the stock program defeats the purpose of an all software solution. It shouldn't require any hardware 9other than programmer) and one would think it would be cheaper than a comparable hardware/software solution.

[wangotango]

Nice work Steve.

It seems to me that if you are looking for some more power/torque without needing A/A Fueler times, the best bet is propane.

Cleaner burning, minimal better mileage, power on demand other wise off. Seems like the strain on the fuel and related systems is insignificant versus the "chip" upgrades.

Cons of course are where to put the dang propane tank.

Yep, there's always something.

Thanks again Steve.

w/t

[TraceF]

Great forum. I am D/A newbie (1000 miles). Save me weeks of research and help me understand all that is expressed on this thread. I want programmability, unprogrammability to go back for warranty work, minimal negative effect on the engine internals and tranny, in short- best os all worlds. Where would I start looking? Propane looks like an option to programming.

[Kennedy]

Propane will be the HARDEST to hide from the dealer, and likely get the most scrutiny if a claim were to arise due to it's "black magic" nature.

I'm not anti propane, and will likely try it some day (if I get time) but just wanted to point out some potential hangups.

[srubrn]

Looks like the Diablo is available for the duramax already, according to their website. Anybody know whether it is or not? Where can you buy one?

[wangotango]

John that's an xlnt point.

I suppose it's pretty easy to remove the "plugged-in" type of mods.

w/t

[RWTD]

Pricing Update!
The old MSRP of the Predator for the Duramax was $819 and the OTD was $695. The new MSRP will be $695, and the OTD from your supporting vendor will be $595 w/ FREE Shipping.

The unit will be available on or around Jan. 1st. I will keep everyone updated to the status of the ship dates. I will also have my website updated by tomorrow evening w/ the ability to purchase the Predator for the Duramax.

I am also a supporting vendor/sponsor of LS1.com, CorvetteForum.com, Z06Vette.com, FullSizeChevy.com, and the NLOC.net, plus my own site, LightningForums.com. I am the #1 dealer for the DiabloSport Predator, have more experience with the units, and promise to give you the best in service and support bar none!

The Predator for the Duramax will have 2 tunes (currently the included levels of power will be 60 and 80 at the rear wheels, and these #'s are usually slightly on the conservative side), raise the speed limiter to 120 mph, be able to adjust for gear changes (from 2.xx to 6.xx) and tire sizes (from 10 inches to 40 inches), have Diesel specific diagnostics w/ full scan and erase of fault code capabilities (it will not only display the code on the screen, but it will also display the definition of it for you, so no going back and reading through a book trying to find out what P0145 means, etc.), plus a live data feedback of all your vehicle's sensors in real time mode. It is also capable of updates via the internet/pc, and this feature will come shortly w/in the next few months. It is VIN locked, but you're able to retune the vehicle w/ the Predator even after a dealer reflash (you can also reprogram back to stock and retune at will, and it is undetectable by the dealer when you return it to stock). It has a 15 day money back guarantee and a lifetime warranty, that I FULLY stand behind.

Please send me an email, call me, or post a question and I will be more than happy to respond to you in a timely fashion. I am always available via my cellphone during normal human hours ;)

[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>

[c5dura]

Hi James, glad to see you here on the Diesel Page!

I followed the introduction of the Predator for the LS1 over on corvetteforum, and I was most impressed with your ability to keep up with all the questions thrown at you.

A couple of questions about the Duramax version;

I understand that the Allison transmission is not supported at this time. Is this something we can look forward to in a future release?

How does one switch between the two power levels?

Thanks!

[c5dura]

I see you already answered the question about the Allison in another thread. Glad to hear the issue is being worked on! Any idea about a time frame?

I also noticed you replied to the question about torque management being disabled with the Predator. Cool.

What about custom programming for power levels above 80 rwhp?

Also, are pulse timing/width user adjustable to some extent (like spark and fuel on the LS1)?

C5dura

[ 12-24-2002: Message edited by: c5dura ]</p>

[RWTD]

&gt;&gt;&gt;I understand that the Allison transmission is not supported at this time. Is this something we can look forward to in a future release?&lt;&lt;&lt;

Yes, we eventually believe we'll be able to properly tap into this area to allow the end-user control of the Allison tranny.

&gt;&gt;&gt;How does one switch between the two power levels?&lt;&lt;&lt;

You choose between the two during programming. Being that this is a flash programmer, you will not be able to choose on the fly switching of the two tunes, but the good news is that we program the computer in the same manner as factory, so you can be assured that our tuning is the most proper and complete way of doing it. Programming only takes approx. 2 min., though (I've clocked one at 1:55 before and another at 2:10).


&gt;&gt;&gt;What about custom programming for power levels above 80 rwhp?&lt;&lt;&lt;

Yes, we can develop any custom power level that the customer will need. This will not be available for mass producing, yet, but we will definitely have this up and going w/in a month or two, for our dealer network. I'm doing beta testing w/ specific customers at this time on the gas vehicle, so I definitely will be doing this on the diesels as well, I'm sure.

&gt;&gt;&gt;Also, are pulse timing/width user adjustable to some extent (like spark and fuel on the LS1)?&lt;&lt;&lt;

No, not at this time. Possibly this could be an integration in the future, and I will talk w/ them about it.

Also, remember that we can adjust the axle ratio (from a 2.xx to a 6.xx) and adjust the tire sizes (from a 10 inch up to a 40 inch).

Happy Holidays to everyone! Please be safe and enjoy the time w/ your friends and family!

Sincerely...

[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>

[RWTD]

I also meant to add in that the speed limiter will be raised to 120 mph w/ the Predator.

Sincerely...

[ 12-26-2002: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>