What happened to "Antifreeze, must read"?

[Journeydog]

I was getting ready to hunt down some coolant additive, but forgot the name(s). I know there was something posted about this a week or so ago: "Antifreeze, must read", but when I searched for it, it's now in cyberspace somewhere. Poof! :eek:

Any help with the names of the good additives? And where did the good words go?

Thanks...

[dieseldummy]

It depends on if your current system is setup for dexcool, or the green glycol based coolant. I think that Prestone can be reccomended, I'm not sure of additives. There have been a few articles done about Dexcool, look them up in the members section, they will give a pretty good idea of what to do. DON'T MIX the two. Just in case you considered it. It is odd that the post is gone, I searched and it said that it didn't exist as well. Good luck.
Justin

[PETERBILT]

I turn wrenches at a Peterbilt dealership and we add Pencool cooling system treatment and stabilizer to the good ole green glycol antifreeze. One pint of Pencool treats 4 gallons. I'm not familiar with the Dexcool antifreeze but the Caterpillar pre-diluted antifreeze and Rotella pre-diluted antifreeze you do not add any additives to. My knowledge is of heavy duty class 8 trucks but I'm learning alot about these little diesels on this website! :D

[eracers999]

Journeydog;
I apologize for the post being gone, i went to edit the thing and must have checked the box and deleted the whole thing. I will work on trying to get it back, took me a long time to write it.
In the mean time you can call me and i will inform you of anything you need to know.
Kent
816-651-5893

[MTTwister]

Recommendation was CarQuest additive #89056 PT @ 5+ /PT. # 89058 Qt. ( Other was Nacool I believe. )
S/b added to both Green and Dexcool. Counteracts the acidity.
Then you need to get the Pennray TS100 Nitrate Test Kit ( 50 strips should last 49 years) to monitor the nitrate levels. Get kits at a Cummins, cat or GM Truck dealership - where they sell only trucks. Hmmm....good luck there.

1 PT to start with, drive for awhile, then test with the strip. Onve you have the nitrate level correct, you can test at every oil change.

His experience was 2 pts to start, and 1 Pt every 12 months. Your Anti-freeze is supposed to last - 'a million miles'

Maybe Orange blast would work? that's alkline, too.

Brief Summary.

[eracers999]

I have done my own experiment with great rusults adding the additive (car quest 89056) to the oarnge dexcool.
The other stuff peterbuilt was talking about is called ELC, extended life coolant. You can buy it at wall mart in the premix form, you can also buy it in concentrate, read the container. It does over time require a product called extender, manufactured by rotella. You do not add the previously descibed additive to this type of coolant. Niether the green, oarnge, or ELC can be mixed together.
Peterbuilt;
The pennray product is the same thing as the car quest 89056, the pennray is rich green i believe, the car quest is rich violet.
Kent

[eracers999]

Here it is in a nutshell gentlemen. Antifreeze turns acidic, what it means to a big diesel is a catastofic failure to the cylinder liner called electrolisys, and the radiator and heater core.
What it means to ALL other engines even gassers is that the head gasket and radiator heater core fall victem to the same thing. Ever seen a head gasket on a gasser or diesel that looked like it was rusted out, well that is all avoidable. I work for yellow freight as a mech, run my own shop and with over 4900 diesels in the fleet they live and die by the anti freeze test strip to monitor nitrate.
The antifreeze companys dont want you to put 2 and 2 together because it would cost them billions.
Antifreeze will last forever as long as the nitrate levels are kept up. Proof, engines that are pulled down after 1,000,000 miles show no signs of electrolisys anywhere and that is with the same antifreeze. Time and time again. Clean clean clean.
Every member should have the test kit and have a good understanding of what they are doing. Ill make it more simple, think of it as a fish tank.
You add baking soda to the water to stop acidicy so your fish are happy and your metal on your fish tank dont rust out.
Im trying not to make this a mega post but there is a lot to be said on the subject. Much more.
Sorry about deleting hte post. I cant type worth a hoot, it takes me forever.
Kent

[ 03-11-2004, 07:32 PM: Message edited by: Kent ]

[Journeydog]

Thanks again for the info Kent - great subject matter.

Short background: a few months back, I had a shiny new Peninsular engine installed at a Cummins shop that specializes in motorhomes. I told the guy several times, both in writing and verbally that I wanted him to fill the cooling system with Texaco Extended Life Prediluted 50/50 Coolant/Anti-Freeze ONLY. When I went to pick it up, I noticed a slight leak at one of the heater hoses - and noticed green a/f. I asked him if he had done what I told him to and he told me "hell no, the plain ole a/f is as good as any other kind, as long as you change it once in awhile". And, he mixed it with plain tap water! AARRRRGGGGGHHH!

So, I've got two choices: 1) try to remove whatever a/f is in there right now (and I'm not so sure how I'm going to get it all out), OR 2) make sure I keep the chemistry in good shape. I never got a good answer out of the guy about the brand of a/f he used and I'd guess it was the cheapest stuff he could find.

Question: if I can find a test kit and some Pennray/Nacool additive, do you think I can compensate for the tap water and green "brand x" a/f and just leave good enough alone? Sure would save a mess and omit the possibility of mixing two incompatible coolants.

[eracers999]

Journeydog;
Absolutly, you are ok with the green but you must use the additive and get the test kit.
Treat it just like a big diesel.
See what i mean, the statement made by the shop that istalled your engine has no idea about antifreeze.
Remember this, if you use the test kit, on ANY green a/f, brand new out of the jug, it will have the same result with your test strip, 0
Get the additive and the test kit, take care of your a/f and do some tests of your own.
Big trucking companys are going to the ELC for cost savings on the labor end.
Kent

[MTTwister]

Test Strips - Just got back form CarQuest - They have a nitrite (sp) test kit -
CFI 89106 50 strips, 24 rtl, 16.64 'net'.

Expiration date of July 2005 ? Thinking I can put a silica gel pack in there to keep them dry.

Got one - hope thisisa functional option.

[eracers999]

My experiance has been that the expiration date mainly effects the 1st pad witch is for checking freeze point. The 1st pad will color up but the second one will not. I still put the lid back on right away.
Kent

[Journeydog]

Thanks for all the part nos. guys. Very helpful. I copied all this stuff down in case Kent does his "vanishing trick" again. ;)

One more question: is green a/f all the same, no matter what the brand is - ex. Zerex = Prestone = NAPA, etc? Or bad to mix? Ooppss..that's 2 questions...

[eracers999]

I would say that (opinion only) your zerex and prestone ect.. are a little better quality.

Yes you can mix all different makes of green.

Kent

[MTTwister]

Thanks Kent - Freeze point - that's what the prestone float checker thingy is for, isn't it? smile.gif

BTW - I realized I should be able to get a few 'srips' from the bleed valve off the Thermo housing. Would that be 'contaminated, or would that work?

[eracers999]

Your freeze point checker thingy with the balls inside will work for you when the 1st pad colors up over time.
The a/f at the therm housing will work for testing, all your trying to do is get the bottom of the strip wet.
Remember, read the instructions on the test kit.
Coolant must be 50 to 130deg. Once the strip is wet check freeze point right away and after 60 sec check the nitrate.
I suppose it is also possible to load the additive into the upper hose, depends i guess on how slick you are.
Good luck.
kent

[catmandoo]

whats up with the cooling filters on tractors,

[eracers999]

Cooling filters on tractors are loaded with a pre charge of exactly the same thing that you put in in liquid additive. The newest filters are around 50.00 bucks and they are a 3 level filter seperated by a tin like layer. You screw the filter on and the first charge is released, over time the a/f becomes acidic and eats a hole in the second layer and it releases a charge and the process repeats itself again till it is used up, you keep a eye on it with the test strips. Used to be a single charge filter and they had different levels of DCA in them, (diesel coolant additive) that is another term for the liquid additive. Hope that all makes sense.
Kent

[eracers999]

Forgot to mention that the ELC (extended life coolant) is a stand alone a/f. Meaning if it is used you would remove and block off the water filter, flush out ALL of the previously used a/f and use ELC. It does not mix, or would be considered contaminated. To test ELC you have to have a whole different kit and it is easy to screw up if you dont follow instructions to the letter. When ELC needs a boost to make it good again you simply just add EXTENDER sold by shell or texaco. I can furnish kit and extender part no's if anyone needs them for ELC.
Kent

[tom.mcinerney]

Kent- Many thanks for re-entering this info.
Journeydog-If do a search, may find account by 'Damork', of his procedure changing from 'green' to 'pink'; last summer/fall, i think.

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

The following is from advice I've lived by: Give the laziest guy (usually me) the job & he'll find the easiest way to do it.
</font> If you want to NEVER AGAIN have to re-do a great topic like this, do all your typing in your word processor. Then simply copy & paste it into the topic message. If you ever accidentally delete the topic, you'll have the text stored as a document on your 'puter.</font> Instead of copying stuff off these forums, simply go to the bottom of the topic & click on "Printer-friendly view of this topic." Do a select all & copy. Then paste this into a word processor document. You have now saved the entire topic's contents as a document - no need to write ANYTHING.</font>Thanks to all for all the great antifreeze info. It doesn't directly apply to me right now, but will in the future. Now that Jim's got a great backup situation for the forums, I don't have to worry about losing this type of information, I can find it by searching.

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[Journeydog]

Originally posted by tom mac 95:
Kent- Many thanks for re-entering this info.
Journeydog-If do a search, may find account by 'Damork', of his procedure changing from 'green' to 'pink'; last summer/fall, i think. Brian, while you're searching see if you can find this one. :D Can't find anything - must have been in the summer vapor pile. And, I usually do what you say - if I want to keep it, I copy the selection or the whole thread and stuff it into a wordprocessor for my files.

Maybe Damork could re-enter and enlighten us? Maybe?

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Sorry, I'm not searching for anything myself. I just appreciate that he put this info back here so all of us can find it later. ;)

I make mention of such things so folks who hadn't thought of copying & pasting can take advantage too.

I bring up the search function occasionally because lots of us don't use it, or even know it's there. A lot of topics that get started have already been covered many times.

Blessings!

Brian Johnson, #5044

[Beedee]

Kent, could you please post the kit and extender part numbers for the ELC.
I have been asking around my part of the world and haven't come up witha satisfactory answer yet.
Thanx in advance
Brian

[eracers999]

Brian;
Here is what the box says.
Extended life coolant CONTAMINATION test strip kit. To order call 800-655-4473
Product code #2974
This kit is used for 2 purposes. 1st it measures Reserve Alkalinity (RA) 2nd it determines contamination levels by either over dillution or mixing other types of a/f. This kit is tricky to use so read the steps carefully. The kit contains 10 tests that have a expiration code. I think a smaller kit would be better than this one unless you are doing fleet work. I do not have a cost on this kit.
Good day to all.
Kent

[damork]

Journeydog,

Here's a copy of my Oct 10/03 post:

My 95 came with the green stuff. Here is my sequence starting with cool engine:

1.Drain as much as possible facing downhill - helps to drain block.
2.Pull the thermostat(s) and reinstall cover with no thermostats in place (or remove thermostat center and reinstall to hold seals in place).
3.Refill with distilled water (facing uphill now to help fill block), run the engine just to circulate some - you don't need to warm it up with open thermostat passages.
4.Facing downhill drain again.
5.Facing uphill - refill with distilled, run to circulate.
6.Facing downhill drain again.
7. Repeat until clear water is all you see in a white drain bucket.
I believe I refilled and drained mine 3 times before the green cleared when I converted, or approximately 18-20 gallons of distilled water.

I ran the truck 18 months after the conversion then upgraded the water pummp to the HO system and when opened up the system it was like new, no sludge or goo of any kind.

When refilling it is very important to bleed the system a couple of times to ensure there are no trapped air bubbles. I went 50/50 Dexcool to distilled ratio.

[Journeydog]

Appreciate the re-post damork...and duly copied and saved in the big file for further ref. :D

Thanks!

[Beedee]

Kent. Is there a brand name for the strips???
Sometimes us Canucks have a hard time finding some of the stuff that is talked about in the DP's because we don't have the same parts stores up here :confused: . I do have a few good industial sources that I can use :D . I was in at the local Caterpilar dealer the other day picking up some parts, asked the parts guy about test strips for their extended life and he didn't think that they had such a thing :eek: , they have the extender, but how are you to check to know how much to put in??? :eek: :eek: :eek:
Thanks again
Brian

[eracers999]

Brian;
Call the 800 no from the previous post they should be able to get you lined out.
The bottle of extender should give you a good idea on how much to add. Hope that is what you were lookin for.
Kent