View Full Version : So who's gonna be first??? That is the question.
Maverick
08-29-2002, 23:08
Power Loader from TS Performance!!!! Sounds good. Someone get one. Tell us about it. tongue.gif
Don't hold me to this, but unless I miss my guess, this is the TTS program that is just being finished/tested. Seems a lot of relabeling is going on in this segment of the market making things increasingly confusing.
I've been running his (TTS) program(s) off/on for some time now...
[ 08-29-2002: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>
Dennis Perry
09-01-2002, 20:55
John,
Thanks for the welcome to the forum. The programs that are downloaded to the PowerLoader have been in use for about 1 year now and testing has been completed for some time. We have sold quite a few reprogrammed computers waiting for the loader to be finished for easier instalation for the public. We are also not relabeling the the Power Loader from TTS, that is what we were told the name was.
We have done alot of testing with the programmer and stacking of other boxes and we have been able to find the right set-up for the Duramax. For example we have stacked the Programmer the Juice and the Maximiser all in one shot and were able to get it adjusted to work with out slipping the Allison Transmission. The reason we like the loader so much is for reasons that some of the other upgrades can't do, the speed limiter is removed the RPM's are raised to 3700 and the trans shifting is perfect. With all of that said now we can begin stacking the boxes and our first choice was the maximiser, the adjustable knob was what we needed to give it another kick and still not slip the trans. Finally we stacked the Juice on top of it all, this time when the truck hit over drive we were able to get the trans to slip so we were able to figure out a way to keep all of this power and find a way around the slipping of the tranny without giving up power and reliability. The exhaust temps are very much in the reasonable range with all three upgrades, the temps were able to hit 1100 post turbo.
If anyone has any questions about the loader please feel free to ask, I am excited am would be happy to share what I have learned with you.
Dennis
[ 09-01-2002: Message edited by: Dennis Perry ]</p>
utilitydmax22
09-01-2002, 21:10
What is the torque increase?
wangotango
09-02-2002, 00:58
Welcome Dennis Perry:
It seems you have a relationship with TS Perf.
Please explain.
Thanks
w/t
wangotango,
Dennis is TS Performance. :D He knows how to make a diesel run. You guys are lucky to have him on your side. He put the POWER in my Powerstroke. ;)
Dennis,
Now that you are doing the Dmax performance thing, maybe some of them will show up at the track or dyno with us. :cool:
I assume Dennis Perry owns TS Performance since he is the contact on the website. What I would like to see is dyno results and a better explanation on how you can stack a "Juice" and a "Duramaximizer" with there PowerLoader and not slip the tranny. Others have tried and slipped with just the "Juice" and a "Duramaximizer". How do you add more and not smoke the tranny. The lack of dyno results and those kind of claims make me feel like its to good to be true.
You have an educated bunch here Dennis, my suggestion is to show the results and get a few of the "PowerLoaders" out here for some Diesel Page memeber testing. If it does well, I'm sure it will pay for the initial outlay. :cool:
GMC-2002-Dmax
09-02-2002, 06:08
Will the power loader address the speedometer calibration for larger tires???
Will we get some idea as to the total HP/Torque gain from just the reprogramming??
Let me know,
THANKS
GMC ;)
Why would you want to add a Juice box or Duramaximizer in compination with the Power Loader?
It seems to me that the Power Loader is able to adjust the timing, injection pulse width and pressure of the fuel, which is pretty much what those other two solutions do as well, right?
Is the issue that the Juice and Duramaximizer allows you to change the setting of these variables "on the fly" where the Power Loader can't?
It just seems to me that reprogramming the OEM PCM for more power would be the way to go. This way you don't have to add boxes/modules to the OEM wiring.
I would also think it could potentially be less expensive since you're not adding any hardware, not to mention the advantage of being able to increase the redline, top speed, trans shift points and firmness, etc.
Not that the Juice and Duramaximizer aren't good products, I'm just wondering why you would want to stack them for more power if you can just emulate the sum of these into the stock PCM.
How does the reprogrammer work once installed? How is it turned on?
How do you change power levels?
It claims better shifting but does it put limp at bay?
1100 deg post turbo???? Isn't pre-turbo the number we need to know? 1100 post turbo is probably 1400 pre-turbo. OK for short bursts and what we would expect under high power modes.
SoCalDieselNewbie
09-02-2002, 11:07
You know I have a similar question... Everybody is trying to stay lower than 1300 deg pre tyrbo.
The turbo's on the Duramax are fine operating at 1700 deg at Turbo.
I have heard a couple of different power programs will have EGTS in the 1400-1500 deg pre-turbo.
Why and where is this concern over EGTs arising.... What components are drawing worries?
thanks
IndigoDually
09-02-2002, 11:33
What are we worried about? Anything that melts!!
Aluminium, gaskets, Heads, Pistons(don't get much compression with a hole melted in one), too much heat may lead to detonation.
With higher egt's durability and longevity become issues. Cooler is better.
John
SoCalDMAX
09-02-2002, 15:13
Welcome aboard to Dennis Perry (TS Performance) and thanks for the info on the power loader!! I would also like to see dyno graphs and pre-turbo EGT numbers. Since I understand it's a lot of work running a business, developing,& producing products, answering questions, etc, I understand it may take a while.
I'd like to know what kind of transmission control this power loader has; how does it affect shift firmness and shift points? Is it actually changing something that allows the tranny to take more power before slipping? I don't know how it could, but I'm all ears.
I've not been too interested in removing the ECM due to downtime, potential loss in the mail, etc, but the power loader sounds much better.
1. Does it have diferent settings that can be loaded?
2. If multiple settings, what are they?
3. Does it store the factory settings for reload?
4. What kind of interface does the loader use? (will it remind us of another one?)
5. Are all of the tranny options, rev limiter, etc, selectable as separate options or is it all or none?
I can see why one would want to stack adjustable boxes onto the ECM loader, it gives adjustability without a reload. Each of the different boxes/methods has it's good and bad points.
Duramaximizer produces little/no smoke, is easy to dial up/down while driving but takes an afternoon to install. The Juice produces more hp/torque, is a 3 min. install, but can produce a little smoke depending on level and air density and must be set while parked. The ECM reload is not easily detected, looks like it makes great power, but has to be reflashed to change with no adjustability.
That's OK with me, at least we're not faced with 5 different levels of injectors and a wide range of turbos to choose from... ;) OH NO! John, what are you doing???
Regards, Steve
Jake99Z71
09-02-2002, 15:39
SoCalDMAX,
I can answer a few of your questions as I have talked with Dennis. The trans has firmed shifts from raising the line pressure and some other software changes.
1. Does it have diferent settings that can be loaded?
You buy the programmer with all 3 programs in it. You will need to mount a three position switch on the dash to change programs on the fly.
2. If multiple settings, what are they?
The three programs are 30hp, 80hp, 120hp.
3. Does it store the factory settings for reload?
Yes, it stores the factory program for future dealer visits.
4. What kind of interface does the loader use? (will it remind us of another one?)
I think it is called the ADSL under dash connection similar to a Hypertech PP3.
5. Are all of the tranny options, rev limiter, etc, selectable as separate options or is it all or none?
This question I don't know if you can ask for custom rev limiter or not. But it comes standard with 3700rpm rev. limiter and 110mph speed limiter. You can get it preprogrammed for custom tire size.
I don't have any torque numbers or EGT values.
[ 09-02-2002: Message edited by: Jake99Z71 ]</p>
Will it work with the ZF6 tranny? How much?
DMAX Daddy
09-02-2002, 19:30
I emailed them a few questions the other day and have yet to hear back from them. Hopefully Ill get some good information in a few days!
Dennis Perry
09-02-2002, 21:20
Strech,
The reason we can stack all three upgrades is simple. As you well know if you make a WOT pass as soon as the truck hits overdrive the tranny will slip. Try hitting the tow/haul button right before it shifts into overdrive with the Juice set at level 2 in the tow/haul mode and let me know what you find out??? The programs in the Power Loader are not new just the Loader we have been helping some of the guys that are using the Duramax for truck pulling this whole season. The downside to that was we had to have the actual computer reprogrammed and it was a little inconvient. I was not trying to make the Loader sound better than it is, however it is latest and greatest thing for the Duramax with the ability to "stack" other products on it you will find that your options are endless on what you can do.
GMC-2002-DMax,
If you will get me the roll out measurement of your tire I can have that done for you. Call me and I will tell you what we need on the roll out.
C5Dura,
Yes it is possible to change hp settings on the fly with the three position switch. The trans shiftings are changed through the program the same way it is done on the PowerStroke, Line Pressure and shift valve timing etc.
I hope I answered everyone questions and e-mails if not it was not intentional. I look forward to getting the pictures and Torque number up on the website for everyone to see asap. I have tried many different options on the DuraMax and have put some really good numbers down at the track and pulled some heavy loads, so if there is any question you may have I will be happy to answer it. For some reason if I can't get it answered I will go out and try and then give you the answer.
Sorry for the long post smile.gif
Dennis
Dennis,
I still have a couple of your 120HP VA boxes and have found them to stack quite well with the 80HP tow reflash. This is what I ran on the dyno at BD this spring. Excellent "instant on" capabilities. Then again, I think the timing has been changed in that program since then and things may not get along so good any more. Not sure how the stacking thing is working as the 120HP program itself was more than my Allison could take...
FWIW, I thought the last time I talked to Steve, that the stock programming was not stored on the controller, but that could have changed as the switchable deal came up quite recently. The ability to "reload" after a dealer reflash will be part of the program.
Worth noting: I'm sure some have "gears a turning" is that these programmers will be UNIQUELY built to a specific VIN and vehicle configuration and will only do that particular truck.
Also sorry about my comment about relabeling, but there are now 3 or 4 different names for the Juice, and the whole reflash thing, while coming from one source is picking up more names as time goes by...
I hope to run the 120HP ECM at the DP Pull off so long my Allison is beefed enough to take it.
DMAX Daddy
09-02-2002, 22:22
Dennis returned my email (Thanks Dennis) and answered the questions I had at this time. I really like the looks of it, but after dropping the inital chunk of money into the truck it will be a few months before I can afford muffler/gauges/Powerloader.
I really like the ability to reload the stock program, but I still have worries about smoking with my 2003 CA EGR set up. Unfortunately, my wife said smoking IS NOT an option. Other than that she is game for about any upgrades I want to do, after I save the cash.
Thanks Dennis for the reply to my questions.
Dennis replied:
-that the power loader does save the stock settings and uploads the performance programs.
It is coded for your truck and you could loose the program if trying to load it on a different truck.
-They will be updating their site with pictures of the loader.
-they don't think they will make it to the Montana event Sept 6 & 7
-orders take about 1 week turn around after they receive the required info from the vehicle
smile.gif
SoCalDieselNewbie
09-03-2002, 11:43
IndigoDually,
I understand that continous use, like 100,000 miles, with high EGTs may lead to premature part failure... My question is...
WHY IS 1300 DEGREES FARENHIET PRE-TURBO CONSIDERED THE UPPER END OF EGTs FOR THE DURAMAX DIESEL?
If it is concerns over turbo failure, impeller deposits and etc... that thing is made to operate at 1700 degrees.
So the turbo is not a concern... what operating temps were the heads, pistons & etc made to operate at?
I know that lower temps all around may lead to better longevity... but why not limit EGTs to 700 degrees pre-turbo for greater part life.
If we graphed EGTs & Engine Wear...would it spike at 1350 degrees pre-turbo?
Who determined that 1300 degrees pre-turbo is 'redline' for EGTs?
IndigoDually
09-03-2002, 12:35
Maybe someone out there knows where the magic number of 1300 degrees came from. The one thing that you have to look at is the fact that we are measuring the temp pre-turbo just as a location for continuity of data. I don't believe that the number is that critical to the turbo as opposed to the components that are upstream of it. Like the pistons and heads and other temperature sensative items. Saying that we are measuring pre-turbo for the sake of saving the turbo is not really the whole picture. We are using it as a common area for comparison since the turbo will take away 200-400 degrees from the reading since the housing,oil and coolant will remove some heat. There are people out there that are taking readings pre and post turbo position and are finding more consistant readings going pre-turbo.
I know that these motors are a little more tolerant to higher egt's than say the 6.5's. Mostly due to piston design and oil spray cooling. I think(JMHO) that the piston would be the weaker link due to it taking the brunt of the combustion temps and compression, then maybe the heads due to hot spotting in the exhast runners.
In regard to impellar deposits that's more of a hot shut down thing. You have to find a happy medium between operating temps and longevity. In my '95 I have the cooling mods and 180 deg. thermostats. The truck does run cooler but it does smoke more under accelleration and fuel economy has dropped some due to the lower operation temps. These motors (D-Maxes) are heavily computer controlled for emissions and this is why there are down shifting issues and other things. If the motor lugs then emissions and smoke will rise and the EPA isn't too happy.
Anybody else out there have any other ideas?
John
[ 09-03-2002: Message edited by: IndigoDually ]</p>
IndigoDually
09-03-2002, 12:52
Wow, If this thread didn't go off on a tangent. :D
John
ok, ok, enough already. I'll be the first one to do it. Dennis, you can send the power loader to me for testing and I'll report on this page everything I experience tongue.gif . As Stretch said "You have an educated bunch here Dennis, my suggestion is to show the results and get a few of the "PowerLoaders" out here for some Diesel Page memeber testing. If it does well, I'm sure it will pay for the initial outlay." contact me for shipping information if you wanna give on away. I'll even put in gauges to monitor the egt's and boost. LOL!!!! :D :D :D
Geerrhead
09-03-2002, 16:16
John,
Could you clear this up for me? How can the exhaust runner's get hot spots? I thought one of aluminum's trait's, is that it spread heat evenly over the entire surface. Please don't take this the wrong way, I want to learn. TIA!
"I know that these motors are a little more tolerant to higher egt's than say the 6.5's. Mostly due to piston design and oil spray cooling. I think(JMHO) that the piston would be the weaker link due to it taking the brunt of the combustion temps and compression, then maybe the heads due to hot spotting in the exhast runners."
:rolleyes:
Just to clarify, the Power Loader does NOT have the capability of restoring the stock programming. Once loaded it is there until reflashed.
There are 2 types of Power Loaders, the single, and the multi level. Of course the single is less $$$.
This system is pretty darn neat as compared to sending the ECM in for programming. Mine's been across the country several times :eek: and scheduled to be back here tomorrow.
DMAX Daddy
09-03-2002, 21:54
Actually to quote Dennis from an email he sent me:
The Reprogrammer is Uploaded through the ALDL port and downloads the stock setting for future uses. If you take the truck to the dealer you can put the stock setting back and let the dealer do there upgrade and come back and upload the performance setting.
Did I misunderstand what you were trying to say John? :confused:
DMAX DADDY, Dennis sent me an email and it said the samething you are saying....
smile.gif
I plan to have my TTS reflash upgraded to a Power Loader for display at the Pull Off. The Power Loader DOES have 30HP, 80HP and 120HP levels, but does NOT have the capability of reloading the stock parameters at this time. It may well be a future upgrade, but not in the near future.
Mr. Kennedy,
How come you say no way but Dennis has sent e-mails saying yes..
To restoring.
The Reprogrammer is Uploaded through the ALDL port and downloads the stock setting for future uses. If you take the truck to the dealer you can put the stock setting back and let the dealer do there upgrade and come back and upload the performance setting.
From what I can tell. T S performance (Dennis) and TTS (The Turbo Shop)(Steve) are two complete different companies. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Colorado Kid
09-04-2002, 09:10
Sally: You're right, but they're both selling the same Powerloader. (a product of TTS).
Dmax Daddy:
I think you understood John perfectly. I also think he asked the manufacturer of the product the same question you posed (probably more than once to be sure he was clear about it) and get the responce he gave you.
hoot:
How do you expect JK to answer your question? He's never said anything bad about anybody. He's made it clear how he understands it to work...what's left to say?
I think the ball is in Mr. Perry's court.
I'm not inferring he said anything bad.
JK knows me enough to understand my question is not to put him under duress ;)
I was just asking why he has one answer and someone else has another.
I do repect JK and his info. Just asking for clarification.
Sometimes my delivery isn't very smooth.
[ 09-04-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
Dennis Perry
09-04-2002, 19:30
Well guys I messed up on the Power Loader :( .Phase one of the Power Loader will not be able to save the stock setting on the handheld unit. However the really good news is that if you take the truck in for service the dealer can't tell the program is in the system. So you will be able to allow the dealer to reflash your computer and when you get home you can upload the performance program again without sending the Power Loader back to have the program reinstalled. The Power Loader is keyed to your truck using your trucks vin number and the info provided in your glove box and can only be used one your truck.
Phase two... Will not be out until the end of the first or second quarter of 2003 and will be able to save the stock setting and upload the performance program. When phase two comes out distributors will be able to purchase blank Power Loaders, select the correct program for your truck and what ever new features TTS comes out with and you will be ready to go.
We have been sending our computers in for reprogramming while waiting for the Power Loader to be finished and in one of our many conversions I misunderstood Steve Cole about some of the features of the new Power Loader.
I did also get good news from Steve today for those of you that have placed the orders for the Power Loader. He was working on them today and will get them shipped asap!
Dennis
Dennis thanks for the clarifcation....
I was confused with the info that was posted here and the information you sent to us by email.
Its all clear now....
duane
smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif
DMAX Daddy
09-04-2002, 20:36
All cleared up now smile.gif Just simple miscommunication. I only wanted to figure it out before I got a new toy for my new toy :D
More Power
09-05-2002, 15:30
I announced TS Performance in the Web Site Updates forum, but yes, please welcome TS and Dennis Perry to The Diesel Page.
EGT:
Many years ago the EPA ruled that diesels should be smoke-free at 1100 degrees EGT. Since then a lot of diesel engine manufacturers have worked with that smoke limit requirement, but have been able to increase EGT a bit and still achieve the "smoke-free" status.
Not coincidentally, at near those EGT levels, metallurgical and design features come into play that produce EGT limits not far above the smoke-free limit. The ISB Cummins, for example is rated at 1275 degrees EGT, and the 6.5TD was rated at something on the order of 1250.
I've seen no numbers for Duramax EGT limits, but caution suggests 1250-1300 degrees seems appropriate.
The Duramax 6600 is the only light-truck diesel engine with a dedicated oil cooling channel designed into each piston. This fact should raise the EGT tolerance of the pistons. In the 6.5, pistons are the first to fail because of overfueling.
MP
[ 09-05-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>
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