OEM to CAT Filter Adapter

[Corndog]

Hi All
Well I got up this AM and desided I would design
and make an adapter to use a CAT filter on the
OEM mount. Well 10 or 12 hours later I've got
somthing I think will work. Havn't tried it yet
to see for sure, maybe I will get around to it
one evening this week. The pictures are in my album in the link in my signature. The adapter
will work with the large or small filter and uses the center gasket and O ring from the OEM
filter. :D :D :D
Just thought you might be intrested.

Barry

[jbplock]

Corndog

VERY NICE WORK !!! :cool:

When can I order one? :D

[big dipper]

Looks real good, but what about the water in fuel light......or does CAT make a filter that will accept the one we use.....OR are you going to modify that as well.

George

[Corndog]

jbplock
I don't know if I will go into production, to
many irons if fire now.
I've got to check on the price of billet, that was just a scrap I had laying around, and I hat to grind a special tool to cut those OEM treads.

Barry

[Corndog]

big dipper

I use an FTTP total power additive and have never
had any water problems. I also have 2 Stanadyne
filters on the frame for my 6way valve to aux tank that have water seperaters on them, but have
got any water out of them either.

Barry

[sdaver]

good work

[jesshd]

Now there is something that someone should pick up and run with. John? George?

What about a Cat with a water separator? Do they make a filter like that?


What about a remote filter base with an adapter that would work like the remote oil filter mounts that you can get? Does this present any unusual problems? Does the OEM filter perhaps have the same thread size as some of the oil filters? Then you could buy a remote adapter and filter head....... :confused:
Jess

[AbqGeorge]

ta da!

Now I think we're on the right track.

[Jomar]

GO for it Corndog!!!!! It`s my understanding that the 2 micron Cat filter won`t pass water anyway, so the guys that drive the big rigs tell me. Good Luck.


Jomar

[RocketsDmax]

Hey there Corndog, Nice piece, But come on...No teasing! Get some testing done and sell some, How else do you pay for the one off tool you had to make. ;)

[Corndog]

I'm going to test it on my truck tonight, If it works ok, I will be sending it to one of our
members for more testing. I'm running a lift pump so my truck wouldn't be a real world test.
I'm also looking into the price of material to see if I could produce a few at a decent price.
If I do make a few, about 1 a day after work would be all I could make.

Barry

[k1xv]

If there were a demand, you could outsource the manufacture. With computer controlled tooling, you may have a nice little business. Or license someone to make/sell them. I am sure one of the Diesel Page sponsors selling related aftermarket products might be interested.

Or you could have them custom manufactured in China :( :(

[LanduytG]

Great work on the adapter. We tried to get this done but using a Racor so you could have all the water sencing stuff plus drain. I am sure you know that the threads are flat on the bottom side. Plus you will have to make something to push the valve up in the center of the filter housing on the OEM mount or take the valve out altogether. Barry if you would please email me and I can give you some details that we ran into.

Greg

[DURA-MAX3]

I would be interested in one of those myself. I am running the cat filter now in pre-oem form. Please keep us informed...

[403turbo]

whoa!

Nice work, this is an idea thats waaaay past overdue.

I would fork over money for an adapter that would let me put a better filter in the OEM location.

A large CNC lathe with some live tooling could crank out 5 of those an hour!

Let us know how it works!

[george morrison]

Looks like an excellent possibility indeed. And no, CAT does not make a 'water separator' fuel filter that would replace our OEM water/fuel filter separator. On units where CAT has installed a water separator, it is a completely seperate unit. CAT learned years ago the inadvisability of combining a water separator and fuel filter into a combined unit; the presence of free water adversely affects (filter medium swell, freezing in winter, corrosion issues) fuel filter operation.
The CAT fuel filter element is a blend of synthetic/cellulose medium which provides much better cold flow characteristics than a pure cellulose medium element. The CAT filter element will pass entrained water, as will all fuel filter elements I am familiar with. The 'filter element rejects water' statement that one sees is addressing the filter swell that occurs when a filter element passes water over time, the cellulose absorbs the water causing filter swell and corresponding filter restrction, reduced flow rate. This is exacerbated in sub-freezing temperatures where the water contained in the element begins to freeze and expends even further, restricting flow during a time when we need the best flow..
This one reason why CAT used the synthetic blend. A pure synthetic fuel filter would be even better than the blend in that it is not affected whatsoever by temperatures, water, etc. but would be very costly to produce; probably on the order of $64 a filter.. (the same price as I paid for the OEM pre-rusted version..... ) To the best of my knowledge, no one is currently manufacturing a pure synthetic medium fuel filter for any vehicle application, on or off highway.
George Morrison, STLE CLS
AV Lubricants Inc.
Columbus, Ohio
614-492-2000

[big dipper]

Choreboy,
Wouldn't eliminating the ball let the fuel drain back when the truck is not running?

George

[Choreboy]

Big Dipper,
The ball valve is open when the filter is on the truck. I think its main purpose is to keep diesel fuel from coming out when the filter is off. If you will look at your factory fuel filter it has a nipple that pushes the ball up when the filter is on the housing.

[richard7]

George,
I use Donaldson synthetic media P169091 fuel filter with a rated efficiency of 98.7% @ 5 micron, and 50% @ 2 micron.

This filter is made with a 100% synthetic media called "SYNTEQ". I use this filter in line before the OEM filter since the introduction, about 8 years or so ago.

There is a full line of those filter called "Donaldson Endurance".

[Phil B.]

Choreboy - How much? and give us some more information. I'd definitely be interested.


Phil B.

[More Power]

I think ingenuity and creativity are good things, and good ideas are welcome here in The Diesel Page.

However, please be aware that the bulletin board forum guidelines specifically address commercialism in the forum. Once someone takes that step from being a forum member to offering product, a whole new set of rules apply to their participation.

Many people who come up with a good idea, first attempt to test the waters in a BB forum. Without a sales graph to base future sales on, and no data to gauge an ad campaign, some of these talented people are reluctant to invest in advertising. This is where we can help. The Diesel Page can help you promote your products in ways that do not violate the forum guidelines, even if an entrepreneur doesn't advertise here.

Working together is also a good thing....

MP

[k1xv]

I don't think we are at the point yet where Corndog is a commercial vendor. He is reluctant even to make another one because it took him all day to make the first one. I think all we are trying to do at this time is encourage him to look at the commercial possiblities so the rest of the DPers more lazy and less skilled than Corndog (like me) can enjoy the fruits of his creativity.

But thanks for the reminder if we "cross over the line".

[george morrison]

Regarding: "I! use Donaldson synthetic media P169091 fuel filter with a rated efficiency of 98.7% @ 5 micron, and 50% @ 2 micron. This filter is made with a 100% synthetic media called "SYNTEQ". I use this filter in line before the OEM filter since the introduction, about 8 years or so ago."
I will pick up one of the Donaldson's in the next day or so and dissect. I am fairly certain that this is a synthetic 'blend', similar to the CAT fuel filter. If you paid in the region of $100 for the Donaldson, it is very likely a full synthetic. If you paid less than $50 for the filter, it is a combination sythetic/cellulose. In the next few days I will have the answer for you. I am not being critical, it is just that manufacturers get a little loose in their descriptions of filter materials. Regarding those specifications; they are the same as for our OEM fuel filter. They are "Laboratory" test methods for cleanliness using ASTM dirts, with ASTM flows, etc. just like our OEM fuel filter was. As we have found, in the real world of vibrating, shaking fuel systems with real world dirt, the lab test results do not relate to what really exists..
Moreover, I will report back with 'the rest of the story' on the medium.. I hope you are right but fairly certain it is a syn cellulose blend..
George Morrison

[Kennedy]

Good work! I actually wnet through this quite some time ago before arriving at my Mega filter setup. Just ask SoMN :D

A couple of keys suggestions here:

1) 2 filters are better than one. Your efforts will be best directed at a secondary filter IMHO.

2) Water drain. In absentia, make DARN sure that you are running an emulsifying additive!

3) If you are being stubborn, and only want 1 filter, why not just pull off the OE, and adapt/mount an entirely different head where the OE unit hangs???

If there is sufficient demand, and you'd like to have it produced, I have a good machine shop in mind, but IMHO, the OE filter cartridge and head assy should remain present to appease GM. I've had techs say that they couldn't scan/diagnose a 6.5 (well out of warranty) because it had an FSD cooler (remote mounted OE pump module) because it was modified...

[luvthesmellofdiesel]

The OEM to CAT adapter seems like a GREAT idea! I like it.

It would be great to have one of these adapters so that I could put the 1R-0749 right on the OEM mount. Then I would have two 2micron filters assuming that's not too much for the pump to handle. If it is, perhaps a 5micron (if avail) on the pre-CAT setup and a 2micron on the OEM mount. Seems like we can't have enough filtration up to the limit of the pump of course.

Thanks,
Tim

[DURA-MAX3]

These engines should have 2 filters on them anyways. Most all diesels engines do. This is another cost cutting measure i'm sure...

[richard7]

George,

Well, I paid something like 20$Can each some years ago (I bought enough...). The filter media is 100% white like all 100% synthetic media I have seen are (I cut open about every filter that comes in my hand). It a finer filtration version of the "Synteq" media they use for the synthetic media oil filter line.

[Corndog]

I agree that 2 filters are better than 1, I have 4 filters on my truck. I have 2 stanadyne 30 micron filters on the frame 1 for each fuel tank and the OEM filter and the CAT IR750 post OEM. I just have seen alot of posts of members wondering why no one had made an adapter. I kinda just did it to see if I could. I found out tonight that in order to put the CAT IR749 on the adapter the OEM filter head would have to be moved out away from the engine about an inch to clear the valve cover. Just food for thought.

[Phil B.]

Choreboy- Please provide more details on the prototype adapter. Thanks.


Phil B.

[luvthesmellofdiesel]

Corndog,

Do you think the 0750 would fit? Put the 0749 on the pre-OEM mount and then a 0750 on the OEM (modified) mount, seems that would provide good mileage between changes since most of the particles should end up in the larger 0749 anyway.

Thanks,
Tim

[Corndog]

diesel
The 750 will fit, I had one on the mount in the truck and it cleared fine. I think with the 749 as a pre and the 750 in place of the OEM would probably work out fine. I just changed my filters last week with 11,000 miles on them and the OEM had caught the most of the dirt and grime and the CAT 750 just had a real light grey tint of fine particals on it. As big as the 749 is I would think it would go probably 15,000 miles. (just a guess) no data to back it up.

[Dinkie Diesel]

I read this forum pretty regularly but cannot remember a topic being discussed dealing with the total replacement of the OEM filter/bulkhead assy. with an off the shelf unit like a Racor 690. JK mentions this above but I haven't seen much air time on the subject. If one were to do this and purchased a filter assy. with all the bells and whistles like priming pump, water in fuel sensor, would it work with our current wire for the sensor? I have also seen these elaborate all-in-one "doo-hickeys" that sport a heater, fuel pump, fuel filter, etc. If money was no object could a person use one of these all-in-one units and expect any benefits over the multiple filter setups discussed?

I ordered a new medium duty truck from Freightliner and optioned a fuel filter made by Davco (I think it Donaldson) that looks neat even if it doesn't work. Their website shows a 2-micron filter media available for it. They turn the clear plastic bowl upside down and claim you can watch/see as the filter begins to loose it's efficiency. Anyone know about this filter?

[Choreboy]

Phil B.,
Shoot me an email.
dlstooks@aol.com
Choreboy

[george morrison]

Richard; regarding the synthetic medium. Thank you for the reply. Now on to the details. White medium, backed by stainless steel screen? Is the medium totally soft, without body? If so, it is indeed pure synthetic. If it has 'body', is built into pleats without any metal screen backing it is then a synthetic blend/cellulose.. Most interested in your findings! Thank you,
George

[Dr_Crane]

Dinkie Diesel:
Have seen this filter on Detroit powered crane and was also told filter was only available at Detroit dealer. Also if you try to unscrew the inverted bowl to change the filter using anything but the special wrench the bowl will break!! Bought the wrench and filters but fuel hasn't risen to "change filter level" yet (800hrs).

[richard7]

George,
It is a white media with screen protection and without "body" around it.