View Full Version : Quiet 4" Exhaust Muffler?
Okay guys, I need your input here.
I've got Banks everything on my D/A EC/SB. At 55mph empty, there's a bit of a drone. At 65-70mph heavily loaded (w/ trailer, 20k+ lbs combined) the drone is so bad that passengers in the rear seat get headaches. Really. It's quieter in 4th than 5th.
Yeah, I've already installed the overdrive lock-out so I can keep it in 4th.
What I really want is a good, QUIET 4" muffler. I've already replaced the Banks muffler with an MBRP muffer which was supposed to cure all my woes and there's no perceivable difference. John Kennedy was honest enough to say that I won't expect much change with his either. I'm not concerned about max acceleration, etc. (but do love the Banks kits otherwise), I'm towing and I want my passengers to enjoy the ride.
Ideas?
--Rob
BlueOx03
09-20-2003, 14:03
You might try to email or call flowmaster. I've been told that Dynomax makes a quieter muffler as well. One last thing to try is keep the muffler you have and add a resonator, I've seen that done on cars with big blocks with great results.
Food for thought. ;) ;)
TJ
I hope you've either emailed or called Banks with your complaint. They need to hear this. I'd of bought their system months ago if it performed (noise wise) like their gasser systems I've owned in the past.
Please let us know how you solve your problem, since many of us are in the same boat, or will be soon...
Phil B.
I had this same problem with my previous ford powerstroke,two different exhaust sytems later i gave up and put the stock system back on.If some body can find a system that doesn't drone i'd be interested.
Whitefire
09-21-2003, 05:08
You might try to locate someone local that sells Allied mufflers.I grafted one into my stock system and the difference in sound is almost imperceptable.It's a straight thru design so I think you'll reap the benifits and lose the noise,it looked to be a quality piece and competively priced.Good-luck.
John Kennedy was honest enough to say that I won't expect much change with his either.Sound is a VERY subjective thing. While I've had some say that my system is noticeably quieter than Banks, I've also had some say mine was just too loud. Majority rules in this case, and they say perfect. Some even want louder! If it was a long bed, I know we could get our longer case (26" body-32" O/A) muffler in there. I believe the one that is on my truck is 32" body or so, and I get a lot of comments on how sane it is inside the cab...
RanaExcavating1
09-21-2003, 08:54
I recently installed the DPP 4" system. I am happy to hear you are complaining about the same thing. I thought it was me getting to old. I just took all the clamps off and replaced them with band clamps and it helped. Also you might try removing the 5" tip. I removed mine and it sounded much better. Ithink you'll be surprised. Mine sounds better but I think I might go to a muffler that is used for a 3208 Cat. Its not a straight tru design but it has an overall length of 31.5 and has 4" in and out. Considering the Cat is over 600 CID I dont think it will have any backpressure issues.
Good Luck
I have the Dynomax 4 in. system and at 55mph there is a little drone but above that ,no problem. I have been told though ( guess who from )that I have a hearing problem. My youngest son has a `03 and he just took off the muffler and is running a straight pipe and I`ll be darned if it don`t sound quiter than mine. I look at his tailgate a lot everytime we have a litte drag race too.
Jomar
Jomar
RichBailey
09-22-2003, 06:31
I put on a 4" generic system from one of my suppliers and it was too loud. They sent me another muffler which lowered the noise slightly. But I am going to add an additional resonator which looks like it will fit where the cat would normally go. Here is the link: www.airflo.com (http://www.airflo.com)
FWIW, I asked the manufacturer if they had considered building an oem quiet system. They said that anyone adding a 4" system wants more noise. Apparently they don't understand that most of the people that buy these $40k+ trucks aren't teenagers. Looks like an opportunity for someone on the board (hint hint).
On my truck I installed JK'S muffler with the louvers facing forward and it really reduced the boom sound without sacrificing performance. Also put a 4 inch turndown on and got a lot of the noise redirected down.
Originally posted by 1822:
On my truck I installed JK'S muffler with the louvers facing forward and it really reduced the boom sound without sacrificing performance. Also put a 4 inch turndown on and got a lot of the noise redirected down. :eek: Really :confused: :confused:
I would have thought that turning the louvers the wrong direction would hurt the sound/performance.
John, Any comments on this???
I have J/K's 4" and am for the most part happy with it. I'm use to big block gasser noise and was hoping it emulate that but....oh well.
Where did you get the 4" turndown?? Pictues???
Thanks,
Nathan
I haven't done any scientific testing, but switching around seems to have little effect on both performance or sound. I prefer to go the smooth way as common sense says that is better for flow.
If one wants a cleaner (and noticeably louder) sound w/o the "flutter" I have a perforated core muffler that SoMN likes. The thing is, the louvers (IMHO) are dropping out a sound frequency or total sound volume so that this flutter can be heard. A louder muffler covers this up.
Phil B.: I have spoken to Banks directly. They claim no complaints other than mine on record, and that my truck (extended cab, short box) is the loudest configuration. So "live with it". I spoke to the shop that installed the kit, they said I wasn't talking to a guy far enough up on the food chain, and would track down the issue for me. 2 months later and I haven't heard back...
J.K.: I do realize that sound is very subjective. Some people want it louder. Some quieter. And not everybody is towing. But drone is drone and when my passengers are getting headaches, I try to deal with the issue. And it's not like we don't like noise. For us, we had a camper on the truck, a trailer, and on the trailer...was a 4x4 going to a competition. It was a 11 hour drive one-way. And it was not an enjoyable trip.
We did put the MBRP muffler with the louvers to "grab" the exhaust in an attempt to just get more of the exhaust muffled. I guess that would be considered backwards.
I think I'll try a different down-pipe to see if that will help. Then check out these other muffler brands to see what I'll try next. A resonator is an idea...but can I place that in front of the Banks exhaust brake? I neglected to check to see if there would be room when I swapped mufflers.
--Rob
richard7
09-22-2003, 15:32
Low restriction is important.
When selecting for a quiet muffler AND low restriction, one trick is to use the next size muffler.
In your case use a 5" inlet/outlet muffler with reducers for your 4" pipes.
I understand your system uses centered inlet and outlet at each end.
If so, I suggest you use Donaldson #M090595 ( 20" core, 26.5" overall ) with reducers 5"OD to 4"ID #P206328.
Restriction is a low 1"Hg (1/2psi) at 1431 CFM, which is about what produces the engine at the 300HP level. The attenuation level is rated at 10-15 dBA.
I installed a longer 4" Donaldson muffler on my Savana, with a rated 13-18 dBA attenuation, and there is no noise at all. The stock restricted exhaust "pssshhhhhh" is repaced by......unrestricted silence, either idling or loaded.
If I am not mistaken, that Donaldson muffler is "blocked" in the center...
How long is the banks canister, and what is the outside diameter?
blue_lightning
09-23-2003, 04:28
Here's a picture of the Donaldson Muffler part number m090595 that I found on the web. Doesn't look like a Duramax but still a useful picture. Dave
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/user_gallery/sizeimage.php?&photoid=2755&width=1
RanaExcavating1
09-23-2003, 05:14
JK (Kennedy)
What are your thoughts or what can you find out about this muffler from Donaldson. I like the high attenuation level and high CFM flow.
Thanks
Part number M100048
Exhaust Mufflers Product Attributes
A - Inlet Diameter (Inches): 4
B - Body Diameter (Inches): 10
D - Overall Length (Inches): 33.5
E - Outlet Diameter (Inches): 4
Rated Flow LR (CFM): 983
Rated Flow MR (CFM): 1390
Rated Flow HR (CFM): 1702
Back Press LR (In Hg): 1
Back Press MR (In Hg): 2
Back Press HR (In Hg): 3
Attenuation (dBA): 15-20
Product Type Description: Muffler, Round, Style 2
richard7
09-23-2003, 05:20
Body lenght for M090595 is 20", 26.5" overall lenght with the ends, and body diameter is 9".
They cannot be considered straight through mufflers. The "inline" muffler like I suggest usually has resonance chambers, with a center main pipe going in a straight through fashion, but which diameter is progressively reduced to about half the inlet diameter, and than is back to inlet size (like an ejector). This is the technology they use for the longer lenght inline mufflers. I never bought a 20" long core to say if this particular one is "blocked" as you said. But the restrction chart shows that it has slightly higher restriction than a long 44.5" core version, so I would think it is using a smaller opening at the end of the tapered pipe.
The model I used for the Savana is an offset inlet/outlet model (mandatory because of space limitations), which is using chambers and large perforated pipes. I had an immediate 1.5 mpg gain after installing the low restriction exhaust, with no noise penalty (and more power). I couldn't afford to have resonance in the van, it is a different approach than a performance pick-up.
[ 09-23-2003, 05:53 AM: Message edited by: richard7 ]
richard7
09-23-2003, 05:42
Boy, 2 posts while I was writing mine. Photo is very nice.
RanaExcavating1
Sorry, I am not JK. But this is the same style muffler (style 2) I used for the Savana (I used #M090520). My muffler has the same rated restriction but has a rated attenuation of 13-18 dBA instead of 15-20. So, if you are looking for a quiet muffler, this is it.
BUT,
1.- It is an offset inlet/outlet muffler (4.88" apart). If you need an inline, there might be an installation problem.
2.- If you have a Duramax engine, the restriction is already at 2.5"Hg (1.25psi)at the 300HP level. This is why I suggest to go to the next size level. The 4" is perfect for the 6.5TD, but you won't get as low a restriction for the 300HP 6.6L. (LR=Low restriction, MR=Medium restriction, HR=High restriction)
Originally posted by RanaExcavating1:
JK (Kennedy)
What are your thoughts or what can you find out about this muffler from Donaldson. I like the high attenuation level and high CFM flow.
Thanks
Part number M100048
Exhaust Mufflers Product Attributes
A - Inlet Diameter (Inches): 4
B - Body Diameter (Inches): 10
D - Overall Length (Inches): 33.5
E - Outlet Diameter (Inches): 4
Rated Flow LR (CFM): 983
Rated Flow MR (CFM): 1390
Rated Flow HR (CFM): 1702
Back Press LR (In Hg): 1
Back Press MR (In Hg): 2
Back Press HR (In Hg): 3
Attenuation (dBA): 15-20
Product Type Description: Muffler, Round, Style 2 We have been building mufflers that are dimensionally similar to these for some time. These are more of a HD unit, and feature a louvered core, and heavier gauge. The Donaldson units in question typically have a perforated core, and have the equivalent of a large frost plug spot welded inside.
Truth be told when a guy (like SoMN) wants a louder muffler I go with the Donaldson, and then he gets to pound the plug out of it... :eek:
I have the 3.5" version WITH plug on my '84 6.2, and it really snaps at certain rpms...
Okay, some measurements:
The Banks muffler is 22 inches long, 8 inches in diameter, and a straight through, full 4 inche perforated interior diameter.
The MBRP muffler that I tried was 24 inches long, 6 inches in diameter, and louvered.
I just put the Banks muffler back on. It's actually a bit quieter than the MBRP; the MBRP was more "throaty". So now I've got a muffler I don't know what to do with. Any idea? smile.gif
--Rob
BlueOx03
09-25-2003, 17:45
How about a post OEM install? tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif
Seriously, I'm sure someone else may want it, sell it.
TJ
jeephauler
09-26-2003, 00:53
Sent an email to Banks asking if they had any plans to offer a quieter variant of their muffler for the 4" Duramax system. I got a call back (they are always quick with a response), and their Rep. indicated that they had in fact just redesigned the muffler included with this system, and it was in fact quieter than that previously sold. It is highlighted on their website. Any one have this "Redesigned" muffler?
Quote from their New Product section:
"Renowned as the best in the industry, Banks Dynaflow mufflers, included in all Banks 4-inch Power Systems and Monster Exhaust systems, are the ultimate choice for diesel pickups and SUVs. These mufflers offer minimal backpressure and an authoritative, yet civil sound. Now Banks has made these mufflers even better. The new Dynaflow polished stainless steel muffler features improved exhaust flow with a true 4-inch diameter flow path, and an exclusive expansion chamber for a smoother sound.
Banks has also upgraded its 5-inch diesel tailpipe tips for these same exhaust systems. The new Banks double-walled, polished stainless steel tips are absolutely top-notch quality. They won't yellow and tarnish like single-wall tips, thus preserving the original beauty of the polished finish. The rolled transition from the interior wall to the outer wall at the tip outlet adds a distinctive appearance, and the adjustable clamp allows positioning for optimal function and appearance."
[ 09-26-2003, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: jeephauler ]
Guess I posted the link in the wrong thread:
http://www.bankspower.com/Product_News.cfm
They still send me propaganda even though I haven't been an active dealer for some time. I guess I may still have an active account...
blowinsmoke
09-26-2003, 04:51
Does anyone know anything about the Magnaflow 4" and what it sounds like..? I got offered a pretty good deal on one.. - just don't know what the construction and sound are like..?
Thanks
Pete
jeephauler
09-28-2003, 07:26
Banks advertising is "Propaganda" :confused:
That's interesting. Thought they were a reputable company.
I guess it depends on what you call reputable. From my point of view, the products they offer are VERY conservative in comparison to their competitors and grossly over-priced.This is from their site : Stinger for Duramax pours on the power
Conservative and reputable are two different things. Keep in mind that Banks caters to the towing enthusiasts. You cannot tow with the Juice set to the high mark you reference above. For your comparison to be real, you need to compare towing mode for the other boxes with the Banks numbers. Even then, I wouldn't be surprised if the Banks numbers weren't the highest. They build for reliability and longevity, in my experience.
Phil B.
Originally posted by stretch:
Total $1650 and close to double the power enhancement with adjustability for driving style and duty.
You can turn down the package I spec'd and still blow away the Banks package and maintain a safe temp. At least the package I described offers options. You can choose moderate gains for towing like the Banks package or the hotrod settings for when you are empty and not concerned about rear tire tread life ! ;)
Stretch - My experience with Gale Banks, over the last 20 yrs., is that he is extremely reputable and has very high quality, well engineered products. His reputation and the success of his company speak volumes to this.
Conservatism is one thing, being a reputable company is another.
The Juice warranty says:
It is recommended while towing to use power levels 1 or 2 due to EGT and transmission stress THIS IS A HIGH PERFORMANCE PRODUCT. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.Banks has built a system that can be reliably used to the full GCVW of our trucks, all the time and by anyone. They back up what they sell and any damage that it may cause to your vehicle. They don't sell you a box and tell you to use at your own risk. They've engineered a product for full-time use, while towing, that doesn't require you to "use at your own risk."
The only reason I responded to this message was that while I don't disagree that the Banks system probably isn't the best for the racing enthusiast, they are a very reputable company, in my experience.
I do agree that Banks products are damn expensive!
Phil B. :D
Heartbeat Hauler
09-29-2003, 10:32
Phil B.,
I understand what you are saying and it sounds reasonable, but we are really dealing with subjective and anecdotal information. What I would like to see is info on how each product works, i.e. why do you need a new waste gate? In other words what does each part,in the kit, do and why is it neccessary to have it as opposed to the Edge product that does something electronically, etc. I am not real familiar with the intracacies of the diesel engine and this info would help.
JP
So far, EVERYTHING I've had to do with Banks has been great. Phil B., you're bang-on: they design for full, hard use all day long, not a short blast down the track. And that's what I want. I made a quick call today to find out what it would cost to get the new Banks muffler...the tech gave me a warrantee return auth # and a new muffler is on the way (but they want the old one back). This is the kind of company I want to work with.
BTW, I had a chance to dyno against 2 other GM's (and a variety of Dodges) on the weekend. My truck showed more HP gain over the stock Duramax than Banks advertises. And there was a guy there with 2 boxes (stacked) and he was another 200hp above me. With a transmission that is slipping badly because he's been "using at his own risk". I'll stick with my Banks, thank-you.
--Rob
Originally posted by Heartbeat Hauler:
What I would like to see is info on how each product works, i.e. why do you need a new waste gate? In other words what does each part,in the kit, do and why is it neccessary to have it as opposed to the Edge product that does something electronically, etc. This is sort of what I'm talking about when looking at Bank's products. I see their products as paying more for less and having questionable quality. Why did they not use a better grade of stainless ? As for warrenty, they only warrenty their parts just like their competitors. Try going to the local stealer with a mechanical problem and see what happens to you when you have all those Banks parts on your motor. Its still use at your own risk, Edge just chooses to be kind and remind you vs. trying to hide it.
Last Friday I had a chance to make about 30 runs while auditioning a Superflow dyno. While all parties concerned were not represented, you may note that MOST do not even meet their claims. Edge typically exceeds their claim!
Using 1750 RPM as a startpoint, and 3,000 as an endpoint, my truck will produce over 400lb/ft at the rear wheels throughout the range with a peak TQ of 434 at 3,000 RPM raw.
The 30 HP Juice level will put this curve WELL over 500lb/ft with a peak of 582.3 at 2375 RPM.
Some more food for thought:
2,000 RPM TQ = 424.5 stock, and 558.6 Juiced At 2375 RPM stock was 429.7 and 582.3 Juiced andTHAT was with the Juice on level ONE. There are points in the curve where there is a 70 HP difference! :eek:
Wonder why we keep saying the Juice tows so nice? :eek:
A little off the topic but since the Juice Level 1 was mentioned (and it is not to often mentioned), a question or two:
Is level 1 on the Juice timing only or are they also adding additional fuel? What are the typical (or approximate) EGT one might see while towing on Level 1 with a stock truck?
Thanks,
Alan
John - You of all people should be sensitive to someone calling a company reputable or not and others coming to that companies defense.
0-60 times aren't why many of us drive trucks. Banks provides a good, safe alternative for full-time use. If you don't like it, that is one thing but someone calling a company "not reputable" because of a niche market they are filling, seems unreasonable to me.
How is charging more for FAR less performance and no greater reliability or quality "reputable" ?
This is my point. Banks was an innovater years ago but their competition has surpassed them and the only thing keeping them alive is their former reputation. With their resources, you would think they would be the best, but instead they are using old school technology and inferior materials to make a fast buck instead of using research and development to stay on top and better materials to distinguish themselves.
Now I get it, I should buy from someone who simply integrates other people's wares, does seat of the pants testing and turn my nose up at a company that has been in business for 45 yrs., extensively engineers and tests their products. Okay, you convinced me :D
BTW: Reputation is former...
Phil B.
ratlover
10-01-2003, 09:20
Alan, I cant coment on how the juice does it but all I can say is WOW! Kinda along the lines of what JK is talking about but I just put my box on and set her to level 1 and have been training my trany. I have made some pretty hard romps but havent run through all the gears WOT yet.
Level 1 is totaly above what I expected from just a 30hp tune! I am still wondering if I loaded a higher tune on there or something since I really wasnt expecting it I dont want to get all excited to be let down that it aint going to get much better. Doing the check I get only one blip of the gas so i dont think thats the case. I hope someone didnt give me some wierd sorta comp box or something? I'm almost afraid to try the 90 tune and that says alot knowing how nutty I am ;) I'm sure that will only last about another day before I dump the 90 on there and then will need to get the attitude for the 125 tune after about 3 days and then I will be looking at suncoast for a new trany....it will never end :rolleyes: :D
Power is an addiction and JK is my dealer tongue.gif :D
Heartbeat Hauler
10-01-2003, 10:14
See, this is what I am talking about. We are discussing subjectivity. Granted that can be good, but it would sure be nice to get an understanding how these products work(read hard facts) and why some kits have only a box and others have multiple engine pieces. I'm sure there are some guys on here that can probably talk at the engineering level, and could lay it out in good ol' english. And leave out all the "you suck" "do not" stuff.
JP
I agree, hard facts would be great. In the absence of facts we assert our opinions. On second thought, even when presented with facts, we assert our own opinion smile.gif
And who said anyone "sucks?" I like Stretch. Anyone who drives a HD EG is okay in my book :D Just friendly disagreements.
Phil B.
OK there Phil, you wore me down... ;) So I will settle this right now... :eek:
We must agree to disagree... How does that grab you ??? tongue.gif Do you ride also, if so what ?
Heartbeat Hauler
10-02-2003, 08:31
I was saying that we should talk about the advantages and disadvantages of a product without the nasty stuff. I didn't mean to insinuate anyone sucked or anyone accused anyone else of sucking. I would really like to upgrade my truck for hauling my 5ver and I am a bit pressed for time. I just wish I had more info other than "This thing rocks!! or "It is night and day difference", etc. etc. Not that happy campers aren't a good sign the product works, I just need a little more detail. No harm no foul...Ihope.
JP
Stretch - I ride an '02 EG standard that I have heavily modified for "fun" (w/ a Banks turbo :D ) Do you visit the Delphi Forum's Electra Glide Garage? If not, its a good place for trading info. I also have a Triumph Trophy. I just sold my Suzuki Bandit. Two bikes is enough for now but I'm starting to get really hung up on the V-ROD. When I start researching things, my wife gets real nervous...
Phil B.
flhrciblueice
10-02-2003, 21:33
Originally posted by Phil B.:
Stretch - I ride an '02 EG standard that I have heavily modified for "fun" (w/ a Banks turbo :D ) Do you visit the Delphi Forum's Electra Glide Garage? If not, its a good place for trading info. I also have a Triumph Trophy. I just sold my Suzuki Bandit. Two bikes is enough for now but I'm starting to get really hung up on the V-ROD. When I start researching things, my wife gets real nervous...
Phil B. Phil B., could you post or e-mail the web address for the Delphi forum? I have a Road King Classic, but they are very similar. smile.gif I do have plans for an Electra Glide in the future though. TIA
flhrciblueice@hotmail.com
[ 10-02-2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: flhrciblueice ]
http://forums.delphiforums.com/electraglide1/start
The Delphi group of forums also has a Road King group:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/Live2Ride/start
See you around.
Phil B.
Never been to that forum but I will check it out. I usually go to this forum -=>> http://www.harleydavidsonforum.com/forums/
Its informative and diverse. BTW, My Harley is "juiced" (well sort of - PowerCommander ;) )
It's still a bit off the original thread topic, but a bit closer than Harley discussions. smile.gif
Originally posted by Heartbeat Hauler:
I was saying that we should talk about the advantages and disadvantages of a product without the nasty stuff. I didn't mean to insinuate anyone sucked or anyone accused anyone else of sucking. I would really like to upgrade my truck for hauling my 5ver and I am a bit pressed for time. I just wish I had more info other than "This thing rocks!!Okay, here's more than a "this thing rocks" comment.
Banks kit:
* around town no statistical change in economy
* cruising on the highway - gains as much as 11%
* overall gain (combined, unloaded, loaded, etc.) - 6% improvement on economy - measured over some 15k miles now
* towing - did the same (10 hour) drive through the Cdn mountain passes, the first tow was around 17,500lbs GCW load stacked low (aerodynamic) w/o Banks, the 2nd tow was just over 20,000lbs GCW w/ Banks, with a camper and 4x4 (about as aerodynamic as a brick), and there was no real difference in economy or how it pulled on the hills - so the Banks kit basically negated the effects of the camper and aerodynamics when already hauling a heavy load
* also towing - climbing the steep grades at 20k#'s GCW w/ the Banks kit, we can feel the trans 'puter having to compensate on occasion due to slip - so I know I'm at the limit for engine output before having to upgrade the transmission
Conclusion: I can lay my foot into it at full throttle for all day long and be happy (well, some of these grades were an honest a half-hour at a time, and the truck behaved fine). Any more power and I'll have to spend $ on the Allison (either before or after it dies), which I'm don't really want to do right now. And I get better economy when it's unloaded. The truck was purchased to work, not play, and not require constant tuning, adjusting, and fixing - I just drive it. So even though Banks isn't giving me a 250hp gain, IMHO it's giving me what I need - a completely engineered kit that works like a unit (rather than just a box) that gives me a performance gain that the truck can reliably take when working at or near its maximum capacity. So I give it a definite 2 thumbs up - for what I want it to do. I just have to get rid of that drone - one that most people are reporting too. And I didn't have to get into cubic dollars rebuilding a lot of the truck (like I have before - check out my 4x4 at http://www.bc4x4.com/fv/2002/hulk/ and you'll see what I mean.) If I was playing with it at the track, then I would likely be wanting a different kit.
This isn't intended to rag on JK's or anybody else's stuff. In fact, it's the opposite - my first post that started the thread had in there "I appreciate JK's honesty..." It's "I chose this product and I'm happy with it 'cept for this one little point". Anyone else want to post a quicky review of their set-up now?
--Rob
Heartbeat Hauler
10-03-2003, 09:14
ryeguy,
Good info. Do you have any idea why the waste gate is needed? I have been doing some reading and I guess the OTTO Mind handles the electronics part, i.e. fuel & pulse width, and the 4" exhaust air filter are for better breathing and EGT control, but what the heck is the waste gate doing. I do know what a waste gate is and it's function, but not why a different one is required.
JP
ryeguy,
What gives you the impression that performance upgrades other than Banks are finicky and require constant tuning ? I have the "Juice" and it is absolutely plug and play not to mention that there is nothing to tune or play with with. I run on level 4 all the time (90hp/250tq advertised) and my mileage is improved and the power gain is very substantial. When I do tow, although its not the loads you deal with, I switch down to level 2 not for any reason other than to be safe. I have forgotten a few times and left it on level 4 with no adverse effects. The beauty of Juice is in a matter of minutes, its gone in the event that you need any kind of work done at the dealer. This is important to me since I don't want to raise any eye brows and have it cause difficulties in getting unrelated work done. I am a firm believer if you break something due to negligent use of aftermarket parts, its your problem, not the manufacturer's. My concern lies in ignorant service managers that try to void warrenties on the total vehicle due to the installation of a performance enhancment. I can' afford attorney's to recite the Magnasson act (?) to an even more ignorant judge. I'm sure you have read the horror stories here. Hence this is why I do not like all the Banks gadgets permanently installed on my truck not to mention the meager gains from all those parts.
I think we've gone full circle, now :D
H/H - Someone else may be albe to clarify/correct but I thought the Banks wastegate was to help increase turbo boost (?). Not positive but I thought I had read it here.
Rye - glad to hear your happy with the Banks system. Too large a ticket for me to sneak under the wife's radar... I'll get their exhaust system to go along with my Predator. I am going to talk with Banks about the 4" turbo down tube to see if they are entertaining building one.
Stretch - What were the EGTs when you were in Level 3/4 while towing? Was it flat or hilly. I wonder if its any hotter than the Predator in tow mode - the v.1.04 runs very hot, very fast. v.1.08 reportedly reduces this somewhat but we'll see.
Phil B.
Heartbeat Hauler: The shop that did the install set the Banks wastegate "their way" instead of the way that Banks outlines in their instructions. I was only getting 20, maybe 21 pounds boost and less through the mountains. I've put one turn on it and it's come up to 22 pounds. Banks says they want 24, so I'm going to give it another turn. According to Banks, stock is 19 pounds boost.
Stretch: about finicky and tuning, I guess I should have been more clear. I'm talking about a lot of things here:
1.) I honestly don't know all of the specifics on the chips out there, but haven't there been updates to programming on some of these to get rid of idle concerns, etc.? I don't want to be bothered.
2.) Also, with high HP levels, I'd be going into the transmission. Then I'll want my trans mechanic to go back in and tweak it a bit one way or another. And once I do that, then I'll likely convince myself I need a lift and bigger rims and tires, then another performance box...and along the way, you introduce other issues like drivetrain angles setting off vibrations...bald tires from doing burn-outs...it's a sliding slope for me (personally, that I know all too well) and I don't need to go there. smile.gif
3.) Also, there are other things. We're pushing into the built-in fudge factor of other components too, like U-joints, the rear axle R&P, etc. While I can deal with those failures, I just don't want to. Longevity is important to me, and I firmly believe that the more power you are pushing through, the more (negative) impact on longevity we'll see.
As for warrantee issues, yeah, that is a concern. I was told that Banks will go to bat for their customers. I really don't know if that's true, but the shop that did the install says they have in the past. I really don't want to find out. But good point, plug and play, easily taken out, has got a lot of appeal to it, and I'm certainly not going to do that with the Banks kit. I plan on keeping the truck long after the warrantee is up (it's got 60k miles on it now, so all that's left is the engine warrantee anyway), so it's coming back on point #3 above - longevity of all the parts (engine included).
Exhaust temps: I've seen mine climb to 1200F regularly when towing hard up grades, and once to 1250. The Banks system apparently backs off at 1300 or 1350 but I didn't feel like finding out. smile.gif
--Rob
Ryeguy posted on 9/29 that after a call to Banks they were replacing his muffler with the new design. I also have a Banks stinger kit so I called and inquired about doing the same. They said all they have done is change vendors for the muffler and there is no appreciable difference in performance or decibels. They said they are not doing any replacements. Techs I spoke with were Jeff Arend and Jeff Cieszkowski. Based on what they said the news release is very missleading. So much for Banks going the extra yard and being so wonderful to work with.
Kleve
Ryeguy posted on 9/29 that after a call to Banks they were replacing his muffler with the new design. I also have a Banks stinger kit so I called and inquired about doing the same. They said all they have done is change vendors for the muffler and there is no appreciable difference in performance or decibels. They said they are not doing any replacements. Techs I spoke with were Jeff Arend and Jeff Cieszkowski. Based on what they said the news release is very missleading. So much for Banks going the extra yard and being so wonderful to work with.
Kleve
Biodiesel6.6
10-10-2003, 12:47
I called Bank's last Fri. about there new muffler. It came today and I just finished replacing the old one, the old muffler is almost 2 years old. Took it out for a spin and it's doesn't have the loud Drone sound like the old muffler. The new muffler is all welded and not rolled seams like the old one. Much better quality and I have to send the old one back to Bank's. That's my only cost! I think Bank's stands behind what they sell. For $20 shipping and 1/2 hour install time it's was worth it!! :D
Modified
10-17-2003, 21:53
Two weeks ago I called Banks about the drone on my 1.5 year old Monster exhaust at 1600 to 1900 RPM's. I didn't even finish explaining my issue, and the Tech, (I think his name was Lee), was asking my name and address. I recieved the new Monster muffler in one week. My only cost will be the shipping back the old muffler, that I must return.
I own a 2002 extended cab long box. My original muffler had pipe welded to it, which extended the mufflers overall length 6.75 inches. The new muffler did not have this. I called Banks, and talked to Jeff, who knew exactly the issue, and the length of this extension. I recieved this extension and a clamp, at my door in two days, again at no cost.
Banks has serviced me well.
Took me a bit longer to get the replacement muffler due to the Cdn border. But it's on the truck. It is definitely quieter, but haven't had a chance to see how it is under load yet.
--Rob
SmokeyMax
10-20-2003, 12:26
Honest to goodness my new Banks monster is quiet. I would think that people would be complaining more about the lack of sound. I did notice on a web site selling the Banks that tip and muffler were changed???
Read Below.
Update! - September 18, 2003
The Banks Monster Exhaust System is now better than ever. Banks has upgraded its Dynaflow muffler and tailpipe tip in all 4-inch diesel pickup applications.
Banks double-walled design provides a 1/2-inch air gap to insulate the inner pipe from the highly polished exterior surface, thus preserving the original beauty of the polished finish.
Better Flow, Better Sound
The new Dynaflow muffler features improved exhaust flow with a true 4-inch diameter flow path, and an exclusive expansion exhaust chamber for a smoother sound.
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