Aftermarket Injectors

[George Gozelski]

Anybody out there familiar with those "Dr. Performance" aftermarket injectors for the Powerstroke, Cummins and Duramax? I was surfing another site and came upon it. They have claims of 100 horsepower resulting in a more efficient burn and increase in m.p.g.!

Also, I spoke with a tech from a company which shall remain nameless, about 4" exhaust systems for the Dmax. He told me that they tried a host of 4 and 5 inch exhausts with their " electronic performance box" and the outcome was surprising! This guy told me that some of the exhaust systems actually lost horsepower (over stock system) and had no significant gains in lowered EGT'S! He went on to tell me that the stock Dmax exhaust system was still more than ample at moving exhaust without restriction.

Anybody experience this phenomenon? Was thinking of installing a 4 incher but now am wondering!

2002 D/A, 3500 crew cab 4x4
"Juiced" with the EZ-AMP
Soon to get propane
Maybe injectors
Maybe exhaust

[DmaxMaverick]

George

Caution: Opinions ahead

I think that messing with the injectors is a big waste of time and money. They only do what they are told to do. To my knowledge, the injectors are not an inhibiting factor with the fuel delivery, nor is any other fuel related part. Adjusting the software yields lots of power and the injectors don't seem to be even close to the limit. Even so, those suckers are pretty expensive for such a small gain, if any (I don't buy into the 100 HP gain with just injectors). 100 HP can be had with just a single box, and that's been proven. The Navistar and Cummins injectors are more mechanical in design, which creates the limitations. I will reserve any further comments that I may have about Dr. P.

With the EZ-AMP and propane, you won't be wanting for more power. Adding the 4" exhaust won't hurt at all. I don't think you'll be losing any power with it, and it may be necessary. I'd suggest adding gages before proceeding any further and take your advice from folks not trying to sell you something. If I made a box (or any mod), it would be the best and I would have impressive numbers to back it up.

Even a stock Duramax has more than enough power to pull a Ford and a ship across the North Pole. :D

[mackin]

George ,

This look familiar? Anouther Snake Oil Sales Show Room.....
=>http://forum.62-65-dieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=003802&p=

MAC

[George Gozelski]

Thanks for the advise guys. I am really liking my EZ-AMP, but I feel like I need just a LITTLE more power. The extra weight of the crew cab & duals are probably what I'm noticing; it sounds like the guys with the standard cab/single tires are really noticing the h.p. increase more than me. Undoubtedly due to the lighter weight of their trucks. I'm not terribly worried about the gauges just yet because I don't tow too often and the ambient air temperature up here in rain country (Juneau, Alaska) is a lot lower than where you guys are at! I don't abuse the power; just like to have it to "SPANK" the POWERJOKES and CUMMINS! Probably will just do the propane in the near future!

[Amianthus]

I don't think that DmaxMaverick is quite right when it comes to injectors. Injectors will help you out in the Dmax by improving fuel flow and spray pattern efficiency. How much those gains may be, nobody knows because nobody makes them yet (as I hear it). The timing and duration are computer controlled so about the only thing you can do to make the injectors better is to hone them and change the tip design for a more efficient one.
If you say that there won't be any gains, that's a fallacy. Mass produced as theses things are, it's just not cost effective to make each injector as smooth and HiPo as it can be. But an aftermarket company may be able to do it.
I will have to agree, though, that the injectors aren't the limiting component right now. So you'd probably be better off with other mods for the time being.

As for the good Dr., I'm not crazy about how he does things. I will never get anything from him either. But, one of the guys I associate with has his phase 3 system in the Cummins, and it really does scream.

As for the spanking, feeling pretty big for your breeches are you? I got your spanking, right here. tongue.gif

[SoCalDMAX]

LOL, Amianthus, you sure do know how to turn a phrase. ;)

All I know about Dr P., I've read on TDR, so I have no firsthand knowledge...I did notice that he only got 222hp out of a stock Dmax on the dyno, when others get 240-250hp. This 20-30hp fudge factor makes him look better by 20-30hp. I agree on every point about injectors, they probably do work, but we haven't yet exhausted other means of adding fuel. You've got me curious as to just how well matched/precisely machined the Bosch injectors are...

My reservations about big injectors is if you go too large, you're injecting proportionally more fuel at all times, with no means to control it or get back to stock quickly or easily. I think it's fine for those competing regularly, but not for me, a daily driver/commuter.

At least with the boxes, they can be removed, some a little quicker than others. If I were starting from a clean sheet, I'd do the mods in the following order (most bang for the buck/ease of install/ removal):

1. Air filter and Gauges(your engine, you pick)
2. Edge Juice/EZ Amp
3. 4" or 4"/5" Exhaust (Most people would stop here)
4. Duramaximizer (due to it's complementing the Juice and ease of adjustment in-cab)
5. Propane (adds a lot of power, complements the fuel, but most expensive when including tank price)

Now you're well into "I'm gonna spank somebody hard, and it ain't gonna be pretty, I hope to Gawd I don't scatter this tranny across all 3 lanes of traffic..." territory. :D

Just be wary of articulate, friendly, smiling Cummins owners. They're VERY dangerous.LOL ;)

Regards, Steve

[Kennedy]

In time, we may see injectors, but initially, it will not be as simple as a Cummins as the Cummins is available in many different power levels so Bosch nozzles are readily available in higher HP settings.

With the advent of common rail technology, a single nozzle application MAY just cover most applications with only changes in programming. Only time will tell.

That leaves us to modifying what we already have. This will be something from the future as the test equipment is JUST getting built. As soon as it is ready, I have a set to test, but I will NOT install them until they have been checked out first.

Swapping injectors will not be a simple task as on a Cummins...

I should also note that the current level of performance of the Juice/Amp is skirting nearly as close as one can to the edge of the transmission (and 6 spd clutches) limitations in stock form. It is quite easy to get 40 or 50 more HP from these boxes, just not safe for the rest of the system in the hands of the general public.

[ 08-21-2002: Message edited by: kennedy ]

[ 08-21-2002: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>

[Amianthus]

kennedy is right on the money. The common rail provides so many more tuning opportunities that injector tips or spray patterns may have a limited effect. So other fueling mods would be money better spent for now.
As for always having more fuel flowing, well, that's not quite right. The potential to flow more fuel will be there. But when you flow more fuel, you will increase RPM. So the engine contol system will cut back on duration of fueling to maintain a given RPM. So really, you aren't going to get more fuel at a steady state constant load. You'll just have more on tap when you have to scratch your right foot.
Tranny issues? What tranny issues? I'm only on my second clutch (burnt the crap outta the stock one) and second tranny. That's not so bad (Lost the first tranny from the 5th gear nut coming off). It almost make driving a Dmax seem affordable. tongue.gif (I just couldn't resist! :D )

[csimo]

"Swapping injectors will not be a simple task as on a Cummins..."

Why? I admit I haven't look much at the Duramax, but what is different about its injectors that makes them hard to replace?

I heard of a couple of diesel engines that you had to pull the head to replace the injectors, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Usually not much different than changing a spark plug.

[Kennedy]

All you have to do is lift the hood on both and take a peek...

[Colorado Kid]

The spark plugs analogy is about right on the Cummins, but on our trucks you'll have to pull the valve covers, which means you'll have to pull the ECM, which means... :mad:
I've never seen a spark plug job this complicated, although the front couple on the passenger side in an A/C equipped LT-1 get pretty involved. :rolleyes:

[csimo]

Colorado, thanks for the intelligent reply. I appreciate it rather than juvinile sarcasm.

[Kennedy]

Sorry, that wasn't meant as sarcasm. Just lift the hood and see for yourself, the injectors are nowhere to be seen.

Sometimes it is best to learn by doing...