Bad vibes in forum

[crew84]

I do not post much but I do read most of the postings. I am seeing more and more off topic postings from certain members that have an axe to grind with GM and the D/A. This is getting old. I want to read about solutions and answers. IMHO If the members postings side against this product 90% overall then the reason for posting here is just to air old history. It is important to remember that most members had the choice on what brand of truck they wanted and the Duramax was it. We all know that every car/truck/plane is not perfect. tongue.gif

[WayCoolKennel]

Sorry Crew84.. but its pretty difficult not to poke at GM when your truck is sitting in a lot and eta for parts is 3-6 weeks (actually the dealer told me around a month wait).

Especially when that truck is your means of transportation and part of your livelihood. And, there is no help with a rental or tow or anything.

So.. you can see.. it becomes quite emotional. I have no idea how much money this is going to cost me and business... but its not going to be cheap, I can tell you that much. I have no ax to grind with GM.. except for the way they refuse to step up and do whats right.

.02

I'll leave this forum now so as not to offend those that are sensitive to reality. Sorry for coming here.

[hd90rider]

waycoolkennels I kinda have to agree with you. I thought I chose the right truck.But like you I have lost business, spent several days in motels,& after 3 major repairs,(injectors),finally just bought a new motor. Yes i work my truck but also service it faithfully. Maybe people just want to stick their head in the sand and make believe these trucks are trouble free. But it was my opinion that people want to know the problems that others are having so they can take preventive steps or be armed with info when they arrive at the dealer. If this is not the case maybe we all need to only post how great the truck is & eventually we wont need this forum anymore as there will be no info except all the great trucks that all these peopls have that dont need to depend on them. :eek:

[crew84]

Guys there is not any reason to be sorry if you are contributing here. It seems I have not worded this right. I stated that if your posts are over 90% slamming GM with OLD history. I know that your problems are not OLD. They are real! I worked years as a mechanic and know how frustrated breakdowns are. I also know that I spent a long time looking at dealer's repair shops for Duramaxes in them. I have found few if any at all of these trucks in them. No wonder the dealers mechanics have not any experience. GM is wrong for the way they have and still handle the injector problem.
I remember years ago when the Dodge's diesel had vibration crack problems. I also know that Ford's new truck had injector problems. Just think how their owners felt!
I guess I am talking about slamming the new LLY for the fuel mileage when the truck is not broken in or reprogramed. Also expecting more power and better mileage as smog requirements have been added to the engines. I am waiting for injector input on the new engine.

[4diesels]

Well crew84, then I assume it is me your are referring to. I do have some old problems with GM and the D/A, they ocurred two weeks ago! I have had problems off and on since I started being a D/A owner back in early 2001. I own trucks built by the other two brands and have not had any problems, luck...maybe but, that isn't how this forum reads.

BTW, I did get help here on my '01, good help. When I posted issues on my '03 repeatedly, no help, hardly a comment.

I also firmly believe that many here just accept what does not have to be. I made 5-6 trips to the dealer for warranty issues on my '03, in just 34k miles. I have two '03 Dodges with far more miles than that on them serving as hard working haulers. Niether one has seen the dealer or needed a repair since new. My '99 Ford needed a waterpump at 36k miles and now with 240k miles, that has been the ONLY beef I ever had with that truck.

So maybe you don't like my "tone" or my opinions but there are REAL problems with these trucks and as noted above GM could care less. The "GM customer service" apparatus is so obtuse I don't know where to even begin.

My whole point for even bothering to post here is that many prospective buyers read these forums. There is seemingly no "voice of reason" no other side being put forth. I firmly believe that there are better choices out there. Since I have owned them all except a 6.0L Ford I have some experiences to share. The reason I never tried a 6.0L Ford was because of what I was reading on a Ford forum just like this. Those guys saved me from some potential headaches by being honest about their problems. IF that was happening here, maybe some could be saved from the D/A as well.

You might also notice that normally I conceed that there are things that GM did better. The ride and the interior design/features are tough to beat. I left that stuff behind for a different brand. Too many trips for repairs, and low fuel economy for the way I drive (long trips, high speeds).

You may also notice that I am generally the first one called names. Nobody here wants to talk about the truth. That is a little irritating at times, so maybe I am just giving a little back now and then ;)

[crew84]

4diesels, FYI my own brother bought a 2005 Dodge 600 Quad Cab 1 ton 4x4 the same day I bought my D/A. We both discussed the pros and the cons of both. He has a hunting buddy with a 2002 Dodge diesel and the buddy has had transmission problems off and on. He also knows of others. I have a buddy that has a 2001 Duramax who also has had Allison transmission problems. We both agree to be aware that there can be problems which is NOT the norm on either. What we do not do is go telling others not to go to either of the brands. Info here is great but info not accepting that some Dodge diesel trucks do have some problems taints reasoning.
I drove my 84 crew over 200k without the problems that many post here. It was dependable and slow. Others dropped theirs after the first overheating. I was told by many Ford and Dodge owners that I had a turkey. Funny but their trucks were gotten rid of after about 150K because of expensive repairs.
I also noticed in a past post which addressed the J D Powers findings to you have not been addressed back. For the record I drove my brothers truck and it was real nice. I would not mind it but it stands too high for me and after driving the Allison there is not a comparsion. He paid less than me for his truck and he had more to choose from since dealers wanted to deal with all they had on the lot. All said, I would not mind owning one and I made my choice like I did with the 84 crew.

[Kennedy]

Happy Holidays! :D


1 belt tensioner is basically all that I have had for powertrain warranty repairs in 70k plus on my 2002 excluding owner induced transmission issues...

[Plasticfantastic]

Only 40k here on my '01 but only broken tailgate cables for repair so far.

[Idle_Chatter]

I'm with Kennedy - one belt tensioner in 94K plus on my 2001 (plus a couple of software reflashes).

[silverback]

In the first year and 11K miles, I've had a cracked battery replaced, passenger side doors adjusted (still a crappy fit compared to my last two Toyotas) and a tail light bulb replaced. All under warranty of course. The truck keeps getting better and I have no desire to move on, even to an LLY (and I test drove all the competition). As for the Diesel Page, I prefer all the whining, ****ing and moaning at GM and Chevy. I hope they're listening. Keep it up
Ken

[More Power]

One overriding consideration to keep in mind is that if the majority of GM, Ford or Dodge owners experienced the sort of problems reported in forums, no one would buy any of the three diesel trucks. The fact is, most owners are satisfied to one degree or another with their truck, no matter the brand.

MP

[crew84]

As for the Diesel Page, I prefer all the whining, ****ing and moaning at GM and Chevy. I hope they're listening. Keep it up
I agree with the complaining only if it stays on topic. I have hardly seen any put downs on the other makes of trucks here. When a GM rep. sees that a complainer is only here to:

Just can't help poking at you guys on this forum. push an agenda kinda cheapens the topic posters complaint into another brand vs brand free for all.
Did you notice that the Factory issue with the Banks Brake got resolved and with positive posting support from members? No one told him to give it up and get a better vehicle.

[Aluminator]

Hey guys, You have heard it all from me for months about the way my 04 has run from new and all the problems trying to get GM to fix or replace it. Will it is still going on since March. Try dealing with them for over 8 months and you too will be ready to pull your hair out!!

I had one guy from GM that watches this site call to say he would get things worked out but even with somebody on the inside it isn't fixed yet. GM finaly said they would replace the truck, then changed their mind twice. Next they send me to my dealers to order a new 05. That one is still sitting on their lot(over two months) while they play Lets Make a Deal with GM on how much money they will get. I was told again yesterday that things were almost finished up but I am not holding my breath. Maybe I will have some good news in a week or two.

Dennis

[FATBOY]

i dont say much but here it goes,my 02 DX has 46000 miles so far to date i have put on an alternator,and a tailgate cables that is it no injecters no tentioners no nothing...
I have 2 other friends that have fords and dodges thay also have had little to no problems ye mine will out perform there's BEEN PROVEN MANY TIMES)
I feel for you guys that do have problems (NOT REALLY BUT IT SOUNDS GOOD)and i hope that mine continues to be flawless in running,thats all i care about is mine as you do yours there is alot of knowledge on this website and along with alot of CRY BABIES if you want to complain about your truck that is fine there is good and bad in all the big THREE auto makers.YES I AM STILL PI--ed OFF of fuel prices
warn 12000lb winch for sale with transformer bumper

[dmaxalliTech]

Originally posted by kennedy:
Happy Holidays! :D


1 belt tensioner is basically all that I have had for powertrain warranty repairs in 70k plus on my 2002 excluding owner induced transmission issues... Thats because your truck isnt allowed in the Warranty world anymore.. some guy from 'cross the lake took care of that for ya :D

[crew84]

Aluminator, We will be watching to see what the outcome from GM is. I have a 2004 D/A also. Keep us informed with your posts.

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by dmaxalliTech:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kennedy:
Happy Holidays! :D


1 belt tensioner is basically all that I have had for powertrain warranty repairs in 70k plus on my 2002 excluding owner induced transmission issues... Thats because your truck isnt allowed in the Warranty world anymore.. some guy from 'cross the lake took care of that for ya :D </font>[/QUOTE]Hey, if you'd like to come put it back together, you can. Trans is out (swapping converters to a tighter one) and LH exhaust manifold and feed pipe are off so I can put the pretty ones on that I've had here for a long time now. Just have to pull the turbo so I can swap the exhaust housing/pillar to the retouched one.


I forgot to add: GM replaced my rear shocks which were shot early on. I have Bilsteins on, but figured I'd make them warranty their junk so maybe they'd get the idea. Bilsteins on my 2005 before 1k on the odometer.


Looks like the 05 will get a serpentine belt as it is squeeking rhytmically, and consistently.

[WayCoolKennel]

Well.. dealer called today.. said he might have the 8 injectors by Thursday !!! I'm cautiosly optimistic.. in addition customer assistance called back today also and said I could ask for a reimbursement on a rental ... dunno if they'll pay though.

More Power,

You know. I've been thinking about what you just said.. to the point I think you RIGHT ! I think my next truck will be a GAS engine !!

I mean think about it... NONE of these trucks can be trusted past the drive train warranty anyway.. so why buy a diesel.. Now I know I know you guys all love your diesels.. but realistically unless your pulling a heavy load often ... they really arent all that necessary.. especially for a guy like me that need RELIABILITY more than ANYTHING !! I know some folks have money to play with... and I say more power to YA ! you earned it so have fun with it ! But, I dont have alot of money and a $40k truck is a huge deal and cant afford NOT to get my moneys worth...

I tow a 6k lb horse trailer about 3 times a month and a flat bed w/wheelers about 4 times a month.. heck.. a gas engine would probably get me by.. would it be as much FUN to drive .. nope... but it probably wont cost $4000 in repairs though either ! (injectors)

I've owned a diesel truck since 1991 (dodge, ford, ford, ford, now a chevy) and I tell you what I wouldnt keep any one of them past 100k miles...!!!(and the fords not past 50k miles) What if the injectors go out at 110k ??? I'm gonna shell out $4k ??? Good gosh I could get a whole motor (gas) for less than that !!!!

Ultimately... the benefits of a diesel engine are towing, mileage and supposedly longevity.. so much for the latter....

Hope I didnt make anyone mad... but I am hopeful to have my truck back soon.. and I honestly think my next one will be a gas engine.. probably a Chevy w/Allision.. cause IMO.. the Ally is the cats POOP ! Bar none.

Thanks for letting me vent.

[rjschoolcraft]

220,000 miles on my 6.5 and counting! smile.gif I know of lot's of Duramaxes that are doing well with no problems approaching 100,000 miles. Kennedy's truck has taken more abuse than nearly all will ever see. The Cummins 5.9 has tremendous power potential... but John's D-max has demonstrated it's superiority in that department. It's incredible to watch the violence involved during a 600 hp flogging on the dynamometer. Any truck that can take what John dishes out is one tough truck! :cool: End of story.

[WayCoolKennel]

Well heres some more bad vibes for you !

Dealer calls me today... says he thinks the truck will be ready this afternoon.. GREAT !

Then he says.. oh btw.. this fuel filter should be changed since the injectors went out... so I need authorization from you on that... I say.. how much ?

He says.. oh .. $127.50

MY A$$ !!! See.. this is what will send me somewhere else on my next truck... Bunch of BS.

He's lucky he's 230 miles from me or I'd a been down there in a minute to get in his face.... THE GALL !

[More Power]

The LB7 Duramax fuel injectors now have a factory warranty for 7 years or 200,000 miles. This eases the uncertainty for lots of folks...

MP

[crew84]

Anyone who buys a new vehicle and wants to keep the warranty valid has to pay for the vehicle's maintenance. Dealer's prices are always high. I try to do most of it my self and keep records to save a bundle. I keep thinking about my parents who bought an Avalon and took it down to the dealer for it's 30K scheduled maintenance. That cost them $450.00 back in 1999. I will have to do the same at 25K, 50K, etc. on my truck. I will just do the filters and lubes and leave the inspection to them. And of course that will cost plenty.
If I had my injectors changed under warranty I would also replace the filter right then. I do not want to take a chance that the filter maybe was contaminated and the immediate next new injectors would be now be on my wallet. I think I would just accept that $127.50 as better than dealing with GM if Murphy decides to hitch a ride with you. :eek:

[WayCoolKennel]

Well.. murphy needs to go no further.. I changed my own filter in the service parking lot in 15 minutes and saved myself $82 in labor.... AND I made it 75 miles before the thing made a awful hissing sound and started blowing black smoke out the tail pipe. I'm guessing something else is broke now.. beautiful !

fwiw, they also wanted me to pay for the oil change.. well they "absorbed" that cost... dang right they did... it was their faulty injectors that polluted that oil and had nothing to do with "maintenance". In addition, that fuel filter had just been changed less than 2000 miles prior... does a filter stop filtering because you change then injectors ?? or are they saying the filter caused the problem ? If GM cant pay for REQUIRED filter and oil change due to faulty injectors ($4000 job) then there is something very wrong with their "warranty". Especially since this is of no fault of mine.

.02

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by crew84:
If I had my injectors changed under warranty I would also replace the filter right then. I do not want to take a chance that the filter maybe was contaminated and the immediate next new injectors would be now be on my wallet. I think I would just accept that $127.50 as better than dealing with GM if Murphy decides to hitch a ride with you. :eek: GM now prescribes doing just that in their warranty bulletin along with drawing a sample from the filter. In fact, they have a specific (new) filter listed. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear to have hit the system just yet.

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by WayCoolKennel:
Well heres some more bad vibes for you !

Dealer calls me today... says he thinks the truck will be ready this afternoon.. GREAT !

Then he says.. oh btw.. this fuel filter should be changed since the injectors went out... so I need authorization from you on that... I say.. how much ?

He says.. oh .. $127.50

MY A$$ !!! See.. this is what will send me somewhere else on my next truck... Bunch of BS.

He's lucky he's 230 miles from me or I'd a been down there in a minute to get in his face.... THE GALL ! Ask him to read the recent revision to the injector policy bulletin. The only big concern that I have is that they now may start claiming contaminated fuel if they find dirt in the filter drain (where it is suposed to be) when sampling...

[WayCoolKennel]

Is there a place to find this revision etc ?? I would sure like to have that in my hand when I take it in AGAIN...

[Kennedy]

Same injector bulletin 04-06-007C The C is added to include the fuel filter/sample draw operations.

[letsgo]

Iv'e had problems with my truck and GM has been fair, but any time I can BASH that dealer in Orland CA. I will, but I wont bash GM.

there is!!!! only one dealer in Orland CA.

good luck.

[4diesels]

Originally posted by More Power:
The LB7 Duramax fuel injectors now have a factory warranty for 7 years or 200,000 miles. This eases the uncertainty for lots of folks...

MP And for many it takes care of the cost of the fix but doesn't speak to the related problems. For instance, Murphys law dictates that the injectors would fail on a mountain pass in the heat of the summer with four horses in the trailer 100 miles from a dealer. The truck will then be down for two weeks (seems to be par for the course) all along you the owner are pretty much hosed by the whole situation.

That is exactly why my D/A went down the road. Black tranny fluid means it is going to fail, and probably fairly soon. The extended warranty they offered doesn't have a clause to cover the PIA factor, so thanks but no thanks.

[crew84]

The extended warranty they offered doesn't have a clause to cover the PIA factor, so thanks but no thanks.
Golly, if we lived in a perfect world where Dodges never broke down or had to wait to be repaired means we would all have Dodges. As if Murphy never has seen a Dodge owner. Most of us have seen and know different. Forum following and posting distaste at almost every opportunity is exactly why I posted this thread. What is constructive and helpfull about the last post? I sure hope there are none of our members going to the other truck forums on the web and doing the same thing.

My whole point for even bothering to post here is that many prospective buyers read these forums. There is seemingly no "voice of reason" no other side being put forth. I firmly believe that there are better choices out there.:eek:
Read and figure out the goal.

[ 12-08-2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: crew84 ]

[rjschoolcraft]

Well said!

[CHVYMAN#9]

LETS THINK ABOUT THE INJECTOR ISSUE. THE 2001 DMAX WAS THE FIRST TO USE THE BOSCH COMMON RAIL INJECTION(IN THE BIG THREE). IT'S NOW ALMOST 2005
AND FOR AS MANY OF THESE ENGINES ARE OUT THERE THE FAILURES HAVE NOT BEEN TOO BAD. AS FAR AS THE AVAILABILTY OF PARTS BEING TOUGH IS DUE IN MOST PART BY THE LETTER GM SENT OUT ON 2001/2002
INJECTOR PROBLEMS. ALMOST EVERBODY THAT GOT THE LETTER THOUGHT IT WAS A RECALL AND VISITED THE DEALER. I SEE IT ALOT AND ALL OF THE TRUCKS I HAVE INSPECTED DUE TO THE LETTER HAVE HAD NO PROBLEM,BUT HOW MANY DEALERS ARE JUST REPLACING INJECTORS FOR THE LETTER AND NOT ACTUAL FAILURES?
THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE IS CAUSING THE DELAY AS WELL AS ON GOING IMPROVEMENTS TO THE INJECTORS THEMSELVES. I HAVE SEEN VERY GOOD AND LASTING RESULTS WITH LATEST INJECTORS(NO REPEAT FAILURES LIKE BEFORE). FORD AND DODGE ARE NEW TO THIS HIGH PRESSURE SYSTEM AS WELL 2003/2004 WERE THEIR FIRST YEARS AND BOTH HAVE ISSUES AND THEY ARE FAIRLY NEW YET WITH NOT NEAR THE NUMBER OF DMAX OUT THERE. THEY ALL HAVE ISSUES THAT WILL TAKE TIME TO IRON OUT; BUT IT WILL HAPPEN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

[letsgo]

If the dealer replaces injectors with no failures that dealer wont get paid by the GENERAL,in Canada the dealer has to call GM for approval for injector replacement. Inorder to get paid, written documentation supporting replacement for each injector and all injectors have to be returned for inspection.

good luck

[4diesels]

Hey Crew, There is nothing "helpful" in the whole thread, yet YOU brought it up.

The fact is my experience has been that with three new Dodge trucks at a combined milage of over 150k I have not had a single breakdown or repair. They have needed nothing but regular service. I can not say the same for the last two Chevrolet trucks I have had. Can you blame me for switching? Is there something inherently wrong with stating the facts as I have? You may not like it, or agree with me but, that has been my actual real life experience and I am pretty sure I am entitled to voice it.

You don't like the inferences? Here it is plain as day.....My experience is that the GM trucks are built to lower quality standards. I wouldn't reccomend them to anyone because I think both Ford and Dodge build better trucks.

Again, I know you disagree and want to discredit what I have stated but I have not made up any of this. I think it is only fair to allow that message to get out to prospective buyers. If I have violated the rules here, throw me out, but until then...... I guess you will just have to deal with it.

[WayCoolKennel]

Well.. this will add a little fuel.. good or bad..

But I talked to another dealer (the owner in fact) about my injector issues.

He is pretty sure a recall is on the way. According to him the orifice on the injector is too small and ANY contamination at all will result in leakage and eventually complete failure.

Whether he's right or not I dunno.. but interesting to say the least...

Also, he made it clear that the dealer is under orders NOT to charge for the oil change. Something the original dealer is still hanging over my head... since the original dealer will be paying the bill on the second repair.

AFA all the other stuff.. well.. I say use what WORKS for you ! Right now I figure I'm money ahead since the last two fords I owned were on a tow hook every 15k miles.. at least the chevy made it to 80k ;) They all have issues.. and right now a gas engine is sounding pretty good to me.

fwiw,

[WayCoolKennel]

Kennedy,

Is there a way to see that document ? I can call that other dealer I guess and see if he will give me a copy...

Thanks for you help !!!! VERY much appreciated...

[crew84]

4diesels You still do not get it! This thread WAS TO AIR A DISCONTENT over posting off topic comments. I used this topic just get to the intent of the bad vibes once and for all. This method HAS brought to the open an agenda that is anti-Duramax. It shows that there is only one reason you post. These two quotes say it all.

My whole point for even bothering to post here is that many prospective buyers read these forums. There is seemingly no "voice of reason" no other side being put forth. I firmly believe that there are better choices out there.
Just can't help poking at you guys on this forum.

[4diesels]

No I get it all right. You are firmly in the camp that doesn't want to hear about the real problems that exist with these trucks. You don't like that I have a dissenting view. You would prefer that if I don't have anything nice to say that I don't say anything.

Sorry man but that just isn't how it works. I have admitted over and over, there is NO secret as to why I post many times, to validate others having serious problems and to make sure that someone here at least puts the question in potential buyers minds.

I don't care what anybody buys. I clearly made MY choice, you made yours. I don't think that every truck of any brand is perfect. The new trucks I have recently chosen HAVE been perfect FOR ME. I am voicing that in the context that the GM trucks were far from perfect FOR ME.

I'm not sure which part of it you do not comprehend? Its not personal against anybody. I'm not trying to force anybody to change trucks or even read my posts if you don't like them. I am voicing MY opinion based on MY experiences. MY opinion is that there are better choices.

You obviously disagree with me but SO WHAT. There is NO WAY you can guilt me into not posting. The "can't we all just get along" attitude is NOT reality. I am more than willing to agree to disagree. You show me the "rule" that says I can't be anti duramax here. I am not running around flaming people personally but you are correct, and I am STILL not trying to hide it, there are a few things I really don't like about these trucks.

Is there some reason you wouldn't want others to know about the problems? You seem to want to shut me up. I welcome friendly discourse on the things I don't like but I'm going to continue to be devils advocate in many cases. When you think about it, my position may further yours. If everybody hates my views it stregnthens yours right? You know what though....at least the other side gets some play, because whether you like it or not there is another side ;)

[rjschoolcraft]

4Diesels,

On the other hand, you refuse to accept that there are hundreds, even thousands, of people who are very satisfied with their GM trucks. You are not the only person in the world. While you may have had some misfortune with GM, others have had as bad or worse misfortune with your beloved Dodge trucks. While it's not directly related, Dodge just had to recall over 600,000 Durango's and Dakota's for fear the front wheels would fall off due to faulty ball-joints. Don't hear you talk about that. The quotes from you do tell the story. You're just here to badmouth GM for whatever alterior motive.

I happen to know several very satisfied Duramax owners. You are not the only person with an opinion and your opinion is not the only one that should be listened to.

I've read many of your posts and have yet to see one, not one, that was civil and honest. Please, be a positive contributor... and yes dissent can be posted in a positive, constructive way. As it is, no one here will listen to you.

[crew84]

No I get it all right. You are firmly in the camp that doesn't want to hear about the real problems that exist with these trucks. Strange that there are all these posts that discuss real problems everyday. I read these post and I hear them. I am learning from them. Open minded and almost unbiased.

You don't like that I have a dissenting view. You would prefer that if I don't have anything nice to say that I don't say anything. No I just do not like your same old solution to all posters. Always the same " That's why I changed' and ' That's why GM is no good' when you post. I can see that you are blind to logic and no matter what is said to you by anyone falls on deaf ears. Enough said!

[4diesels]

Once again you guys are trying to pigeon hole me into a rigid parameter. It is completely untrue that "none" of my posts are at all positive. I have made replies to guys wanting to fit larger tires. I always post that I did it on both of my trucks and liked the results. I know there are others too, I'm just not that into this as to pull up all my old posts and itemize them for you.

Best of all you guys totally make my point and justify my posts. You want to bury your heads in the sand and not acknowledge the problems. I don't think that is right. It comes right back to my whole purpose, to try and inform prospective buyers. Obviously my opinion isn't the only one, I never said it was. Mine however is one of the very few that do anything other than blow smoke up peoples butts about these trucks.

If you read about the problems, then you know they exist and how can you argue with my logic for changing brands? I had problems, I switched, what the heck do you have your undies so twisted over?

Nice comment on the balljoint thing, to bad, like you admit, it has no application to trucks we discuss. I'm not sure how that applied at all. Are we talking about Dakotas and Durangos? I wouldn't buy one of those any sooner than you would.

What logic is there for me to consider? You say it falls on deaf ears? I see a 20% injector failure rate reported on this site, that is one in five, not so hot IMO. I had problems, I changed, I voice that. I really don't get what the beef is?

[crew84]

I spent six minutes and did a search on 4diesels posts in this forum. Here are the results less this thread in Positive, Negative, and on the fence being both ways.

Positive posts 4
Negative posts 23
On the fence 3


Funny how Ford and Dodge can fit decent stock tires but GM gives us the wimpiest donuts availible.
Of course this is what he considers ' helpful ' with tires.

[rjschoolcraft]

It applies. Dodge has had many recalls of their Cummins powered trucks over the years as well. Trailer Life magazine always has the latest recalls in each issue... Nearly every issue I've received (and I do subscribe) over the last three years has had a Dodge Cummins recall of one sort or the other.

As for head in the sand? My uncle owns a 90 Dodge Ram with the Cummins and my cousin (his son) owns a 95 Dodge Ram with the cummins. Both have been complete junk. My uncle has replaced front end components at least 4 times since he's owned it, cannot keep it aligned, has had to replace rear diff bearings twice, the interior is falling apart. The only positive thing is the engine. He later bought a 99 or 2000 (can't remember which) and has had multiple problems with it. He's been back to the dealer repeatedly and cannot get it fixed. My cousin cannot keep clutches in his truck and it wears the tires funny every time.

But, I have no direct experience with them... and don't want to have either. ;)

I'd rather have my 6.5 than any one of the three Dodges that my family members have owned (and still do).

Well, I can't wait to see how you discredit this evidence. I'm sure it is worthless in some way.

Again, all we ask is that you be positive... not a cheerleader. If you have legitimate issues, it's fine to air them here. But you've gone beyond that to full-fledged bashing and personal ad-hominem attacks upon anyone who disagrees. Sorry if I'm using too big of words.

[dmaxmule]

4diesels
I am not against Dodges of D-maxes, but I see problems with both. I'm the proud owner of a '05 D-max, abd my brother is the proud owner of a '99 Cummins.

If you think back Dodge had a problem with the manual transmissions. the nut was backing off of fifth gear. Dodge had to develope a new nut to put in the trans.

The tires on a Dodge do not wear very good either. 30 to 40 thousand miles is not what I call good for tire life.

The brakes don't wear right either.

Then there is the ball joint issue. Having to replace them every 60 to 70 thousand miles is not all that good.

There is problems with all brands; however, it is well known that the different brands serve different people differently. One brand may be good for you, but it may not be so good for me or someone else.

We are not asking you to stop posting. We just want professional, non-insulting, and gentleman- like posting.

Thanks dmaxmule

[4diesels]

I owned a '92 Cummins truck, I wouldn't dispute for one second that ONLY decent part of that truck was the engine itself. It never braked right, it spit out five manual transmissions during its tenure. I went to Ford, had very good luck. I didn't touch a Dodge truck until the new '03 versions. I know the second generation '94-'02 versions had a bunch of issue too. The front suspension on the 4x4s was junk, can't dispute that.

Funny how I get cast as so unreasonable? Remember guys, I bought two different Duramax trucks, it isn't like I didn't give them a chance, as was once suggested. I also wouldn't buy a 6.0 Ford, pretty clear that there are issues with those engines as well.

What I generally do is research what is working the best at the time I am going to buy. In 2001 I bought the first D-max. The Allison was supposed to be THE thing, the D-max engine was quiet un-like any of the competition. It unfortunately didn't quite work as advertised FOR ME in several respects and one is overall number of dealer visits to get things fixed. In '03 we were looking for our personal truck. My wife liked the chev for several reasons including the quiet engine and nicest interior. Again I feel like I got burned by GM, how do expect a guy to react? I'm not saying any of you should change if you like what you have. Many have had problems like I have and may be considering a change. All I am saying is that so far my experience has been very positive with my new Dodges. IF you are not convinced, like me, that the GM trucks are the one for you, all I am saying is that I have found a good alternative.

As for the deal on the tires, how can you dispute the fact that the 245s being fitted to these trucks until recently looked rediculous? Then to add insult to injury the other two brands fit tires much more becoming 3/4 and 1-ton trucks. If you want to pick THAT apart, be my guest but, like most of the rest of the complaints against my posting, it seems awfully petty, unl;ess of course you have some sort of truck insecurity. :D

[TanM998]

Everyone is entiled to their own opinions... and we must remember that is truely what they are... just opinions... Lets let this thread die.... PLEASE!!!!

Scott
'85 Tan M998 W/CTIS

[rickdlance]

How about some honest vibes before this post is put to rest. I run a hauling company and currently own 3 Duramax's. We have ran these trucks harder and faster than we should. We have grossed over 32,000 pounds through the mountains. I have owned 5 total.
My first 2001 4x4 Duramax / Allison had 185,000 miles on it when I sold it. I bought it new. It had 2 sets of injectors and 1 set of heads changed in that time. I had stacked chips and ran it at the dragstrip as well. The heads had to be changed because of an injector related failure. These are the only parts other than tires that had been replaced PERIOD! No brakes, no shocks, not even a front end alignment!!
Our second 2001 4x4 Duramax / Allison had 165,000 on it when we sold it. We bought it used with 101,000 miles on it. Ran a chip on it also. 1 set of injectors, 1 upper a-arm ( because of a bad ball joint ), and 1 master cylinder, before we bought it.
3rd Duramax / Allson was a 2 wheel drive 2004.5 we bought new. 100,000 miles on it now. 1 set of injectors. They where bad when new. My only other complaints have been poor fuel mileage ( compared to LB7 and overheating ). Both got better with a reflash. Still no other replacement parts.
4th Duramax / Allison was a 4x4 2003. Back to the LB7. Mileage up and no overheating. 1 set of injectors and a master cylinder. Bought at 26,000 miles and have 80,000 on it now.
5th Duramax / Allison was a 4x4 2004.5 we also bought new. Other than the lower fuel mileage and the hotter running engine, there have been no problems at all. Just turning 50,000 miles.

The trucks are comfortable and seam to have good resale. With a combined mileage of 453,000 and an aprox. repair cost of $173, the a- arm. Everything else was under warranty. How can I not drive a Duramax!! Will be looking for another 1 or 2 after the 1st of the year.

[earniem]

Hmmmm 4 diesels
not to be different but you would make a good demacrat. Reading this thread has been fun. Your views on the d max are yor own I am sure. we have a man here in town that thinks Fords are better than GM but he also has a political problem. You all sound good. keep it up. Most of us can see through it.

[CHVYMAN#9]

LETS BE HONEST,THE HATFEILDS AND MECOYS AND THE FORDS AND CHEVYS HAVE BEEN AT EACHOTHER FOREVER RIGHT? DOES IT RALLY MATTER? MY BEST ADVICE TO THESE PEOPLE IS "YOU PAY FOR WHAT YOU WANT/LIKE TO DRIVE AND OTHERS PAY FOR WHAT THEY WANT/LIKE TO DRIVE". IT'S ALL PERSONAL PRFERANCE. THEY ALL HAVE ISSUES,ONE WAY OR ANOTHER,BUT THEY ALL GET THE JOB DONE.TO EACH HIS OWN HAPPY OR NOT, IT ALL WORKS OUT IN THE LONG RUN. BESIDES THEY ARE ALL BUILT BY AMERICANS.

[4diesels]

Rick, That cracks me up, five trucks, five sets of injectors and you are actually bragging about it??????? That is certainly something to be proud of.

Earnie, Best be careful when attatching political labels, you missed me by a mile. And, oh yeah, might want to at least spell it right (democrat) when you go to slander somebody ;)

[CHVYMAN#9]

4diesels,YOU MIGHT WANT TO COMPARE THE INJECTORS IN YOUR NEW DODGE (BOSCH)TO THOSE IN HIS FIVE DMAX'S THEY LOOK ALMOST IDENTICAL AT THE TIP AND SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME ISSUES (THERE JUST AREN'T AS MANY OUT THERE YET.)

[4diesels]

Well.....I have 150k miles combined on the '03s and no issues yet. There have been a few trucks that have needed individual injectors replaced on the TDR site but so far nothing like what has been reported here.

[rjschoolcraft]

;)

[Cornell]

Can the Administrator please close this thread. We have beat to death, please lets move on !!! :confused: :confused:

[crew84]

I agree it is time to close this thread that I started. Hopefully it is out of all our systems!

[FJ40TBI]

Originally posted by kennedy:
Same injector bulletin 04-06-007C The C is added to include the fuel filter/sample draw operations. Newbie alert!

Where can I find this bulletin? I've searched on the number but just end up in circles.

TIA

Bruce

[Springcrik]

Nah, don't close the thread. Despite all the hysterics against him, 4Diesels has at least one very valid point...the injector failure rate on these DMax is horrible. Keep talking, 4Diesels, you won't convince everybody against Duramaxes, but as a prospective buyer, I appreciate hearing about your experiences, and you other guys, I also appreciate yours! That's what free speech is about. And now I see on the TDR that the Bosch injector failure rate seems to be rising on the 05 Dodges. As a service technician who has owned Chebby, Ford, and Dodge pickups, I have to agree with the FACT that any of the big 3 can (and will) burn you on the diesels. I'm not talking about stupid stuff like powerchips voiding warranties (the manufacturers ARE totally justified doing this, IMHO;) it's the lack of support to the dealerships, untrained dealership personnel, the attempt to deny warranty coverage for obvious design problems and/or known trouble points, trying to stick you with outrageously priced filter changes...the list goes on. Maybe the gassers are the way to go if you value Reliability above mileage??
BTW, I currently own a 98.5 Dodge 24V with 135000 miles on it, and have had very few problems; no engine problems whatsoever. Yes the front end control arm and ball joints did wear out @ 125K, the steering gearbox has too much wear. I would expect that @ 135K on any brand, I had to replace all of that on my last Chevy 1988 K2500 at about the same mileage.
Please keep posting about your true experiences with these trucks, good or bad... it helps people like me a lot smile.gif

[rickdlance]

4diesels you misuderstood my post. I hate the fact that I have had so many sets of injecters changed, but I have not changed virtually anything else. From what I understand the Dodge is hard on tie rod ends, brakes and rotors, ball joints, u-joints, and transmissions. And the Fords seam to have a frontend alignment problem, as well as brakes. This is only based on what friends have told me about their trucks. I could be wrong. Shed some honest light on it for us. All I know is I have put a lot of miles on them with virtually no repair except for injecters, and they were under warranty.

[More Power]

I think everyone here has done a fine job of stating their own opinion without unholstering the hardware.... :D

I think the injector situation (though overstated in BB forums) does suck. I know a lot of stuff about F&D as well, but I'm keeping it tight lipped. tongue.gif

MP

[ochster]

Slightly off topic, I was blown away at the complete lack of trade or resale value on my two wheel drive 2500HD. Some dealers flat were not interested. I would have been way better off buying a gas model and saving the upfront dough.

For purely financial reasons, I really thought I could live with the Dodge with a 6spd. But after researching, several lengthy drives and looking at the payload specs, it just is not apples to apples. The dodge 3500 srw in comparable trim is near 1,000lbs. less legal payload.

I finally worked a deal where a dealer pre-sold my truck and I achieved "book" trade in value. I will be buying a 2005 3500 D/A srw CC 4x4 for basically invoice. I surely hope this vehicle goes the distance.

[Ted a.]

Well basically, I have had my 03 injectors all replaced. Mine ultimatly, caused a non-start condition. My truck spent 2 weeks at the dealer waiting for the actual parts to arrive. This is a business vehicle and I don't need to express how unaccepatable this is. The dealer denied that there is a injector problem and stated the percentage of failure rates to support that. I do not think my next truck will be a diesel. I am not accepting spending more $$ and being married to a high $$ risk once the warantee expires. It will be sold at 90k miles. I don't care who bashed/bashes the DMAX/Allison truck. If they have one and have had problems, heck they spent big $$ and they deserve to express thier problems.

PS I'd take tranny problems over high dollar injector problems. I can find a guy locally that can build a trans.

[4diesels]

Rick, I have to say that the best luck I have had with a truck is the 99.5 Ford 7.3 PSD I still have. It is up over 250k now and still has its original glow plugs by some act of God tongue.gif

The new generation of Dodges is better than ever though of course they aren't perfect either. My '03 dually is always hooked to an 8000lb (empty) gooseneck and daily loads go 15k easy. The truck has almost 90k miles on it now. Just recently it needed ball joints in front but never anything else. The "03 QC is over 70k and has had no problems.

I have left all of my trucks stock other than tires and I think that helps. All of the work trucks drink from the same barrel of well filtered fuel, which I think helps too. They all get maintained by a good friend of mine in his independant shop. I do religious fluid and filter changes on all of them. I think all of that helps the trucks to remain reliable which is a big deal when you need them for work.

I'll never forget the day I brought home my 2001 D/A truck and found a puddle of anti freeze under it. The clamp on the lower hose was installed way off. It was the beginning of a troublesome time. From about 60-80k miles the truck was flawless, I considered keeping it around. Then the troubles came back and I gave the new Dodge a shot.

There are a ton of merits to the GM trucks. The problems I had though were not enough to make up for it though. IF I could have avoided dealing with know nothing GM customer service it may have been different. When they stick you with a customer service person who has no idea what is going on, it makes it very tiring. I wanted the filters changed on the Allison as I read here somebody had good luck completely flushing the trans and changing both filters. The CS guy told me that he checked and the spin on is good for 30k intervals and should be just fine since it had been changed 5k miles ago :rolleyes: He just couldn't grasp the concept of getting the fluid CLEAN to satisfy his customer. On top of that I was probably saving GM the cost of a new tranny down the road by just getting it properly flushed. All this on a $48,000 truck bought by a guy with a four truck previous history with GM and a business that uses 2-3 trucks for hauling. If I can avoid having problems to begin with, these situations would never occur. So far so good with Dodge. I did go around with them back when on my '92 CTD, it took over ten years to win me back. I hope GM is listening because there are lots of things I do like about the trucks but, looks like 10 years before I will be back after the last round :(

[dcalex]

I'm new here....as a matter of fact , this is my first post. I joined because I'm looking to buy a new truck this spring and forums like this are really helpful in making determinations. From what I've learned so far in all my looking, studying, and asking questions is that, as a rule, all 3 of the manufacturers make a pretty good diesel/trans combo and that they all 3 have their own quirks and problems. I have mainly (so far) settled on Chevy because of the Allison and the D-max (now that the injector issue is kind/sorta settled), the heavier frame and drive trains,and the over-all fit and finish of Chevy v/s the other two. Believe it or not, this thread has proved very valuable to me. Has it soured me on Chevy....no, but I will think closer on the diesel of any brand.
Maybe you can help me. I originally intended to get a diesel because I thought I would get more value from it than a gas engine. I don't expect to tow more than 7,000 - 8,000 combined trailer wieght. And to do that no more than half a dozen times a year. I wanted the larger power package because I do want this truck to be trouble free and last me for years and years. My thought was.....bigger package....less stress....last longer. Engine doesn't work as hard, I get better mileage, enjoy it more, etc. Now,... it appears that you guys on this thread are working your trucks really hard, but that doesn't seem to be whats causing the failures that your debating here. It seems that the debate or I should say the fodder that is fueling the dabate ( I'm aware of the original intent of the post)has nothing to do with working the trucks hard. It's beginning to appear that diesel engines period have a pretty costly maintenance to them. Some of the repairs mentioned here almost in passing as normal would horrify me if it were a gas engine. Gas engines have injectors too...it's not new technology for certain......so I'm not sure what being a diesel has to do with this failure rate. Have they stretched these engines (horsepower/torque) beyond what the basic technology can support?....Am I buying an expensive pig-in-a-poke?....not because it's Chevy, but because it's a diesel? I've only owned one "new" vehicle in all my life (I'm 60).....it was little Honda Accord and it never failed...ever....and I gave it to a charity at just under 200,000 miles. I was hoping that this new truck would do the same for me if I "over-sized" it according to my needs. Do you think I'm making a big mistake here?. Any advice you can give will be appreciated. Thank You in advance,
Darrell

[4diesels]

Darrell, You sound like a good canidate for the 8100 gas engine to me. They have a ton of power and you are unlikely to have any problems with it. The 6.0L gas engine would work as well with possible better economy but I think you have to get the 8100 to get the Allison transmission.

With the change to extremely high pressures in diesel fuel injection systems all of the manufacturers seem to be having some problems with injectors. The gas engines remain very similar to the same systems having been used and proven for years. New, more accurate fuel metering on gas engines also allows them to last a long time as well, 150K+ miles should not be a problem.

What you will give up is some milage but in my experience that will only be 3-5 mpg. Now consider the $4-5,000 premium for the diesel engine and you find that the fuel savings is pretty much negated by the up front cost. You will get more in trade on a diesel so not all is lost but for most peoples actual practical needs the gas engine is probably the better choice. The new generation of turbo diesels are fun powerful machines but in most cases want out wieghed need at purchase time.

I seriously considered a new V10 Ford for my most recent truck purchase. It has the power now, as does the 8100 GM truck. They are quiet smooth reliable and cheaper. Good Luck with the new truck whatever you choose.

[More Power]

OK, I couldn't resist..... :D

The latest Four Wheeler magazine included a 9,000-mile update on the 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins long-term test truck they had.

Long-term numbers:
Miles to date: 9050
Average mpg: 14.4
Best tank mpg: 16.7
Worst tank mpg: 8.5 (towing)

Returned to the dealer once for a check engine light.

MP

[OC_DMAX]

dcalex,

While I don't agree with everything 4Diesels posts, what he wrote above is actually a good summary. And, as a matter of fact, it is probably the direction I will head when I purchase another truck (8.1 liter / Allison) in 2008 (when my extended warranty runs out on my DMAX). My situation is similar to yours (7k pound trailer). Either the 8.1 liter or 6.0 liter gas engine will handle those loads with no problem. I previously owned a 2000 Silverado with a 6.0 liter gas engine (it loved to rev) and I gained about 25% in mileage by pulling the same load with the Duramax. If you pulled a larger load (lets say 12K - 15K pounds), I would say get the diesel.

From my perspective, it really comes down to this, if you plan on keeping a new diesel offering from one of the 3 major manufactures (DMAX, Cummins or Powerstroke) outside of the warranty period, you will become exposed to potentially large repair bills. (Keep the truck to the end of the warranty period and trade it off, then no problem.) To meet current emissions, the manufactures have gone to these common rail high pressure systems that are more prone to failure (and very costly to repair). And when 2007 roles around and the diesel emission standards step up again, things should get even more complex. The wild card in the arena is the looming 2006 Ultra Low Sulfur diesel fuel that will hit the market in Summer 2006. Maybe this will clean up the diesel fuel supply and increase the reliability of the injection systems (or conversely, bring about more problems that manufactures have not accounted for).


The above are my thoughts,
Alan


PS - Button down the hatches up there in Crestline, the storm is on its way.

[dcalex]

Thanks for the info 4diesals. I've driven the 8100 with the allison. I went from Ca to Iowa to haul a tractor back. It was borrowed from my nephew and I fell in love with it. What an engine...and what a transmission. But, you know what ruined the trip for me?....it refused to pass up a gas station. Now, I'm not trying to get power for nothing and I know the up front costs of the diesel engine, but I have been seduced, I suppose, with the reasonable mpg of the diesels. There just seems to be something about paying the cost at the pump. I don't mind it in the original costs of the vehicle, but to see it trickling away every other day upsets me. On the other side of the coin.....I don't think that repairs every time I turn around, warranty or not, is my idea of an ideal vehicle either. You've given me some good food for thought and I'm glad I'm not in the position of "having" to buy any truck right now. Thanks

[dcalex]

Thank you too OC

Yeah, I think I'd better do a little critical thinking here. You guys have the experience and for me to ignore it would be foolish. I can begin to see all the question marks for the future with the diesel. If I were younger and liked to play with my truck and build a lifestyle around it, maybe things would be different. But what I want is a steady reliable truck that will pull when I want it to and will last until they take my license away....naive maybe, but thats what I'm aiming at.
Thanks Guys, you've forced me to rethink....don't ya just hate that! :confused:

Yeah....we're gonna get pretty wet here shortly. Looks like the snow level will stay high this time around....the last one did a number on us with 21/2 feet. :D

[rjschoolcraft]

There was a time when I said that I would never want a diesel in a light truck... I believed, and rightly so, that I could build a 350 gas engine that would pull anything I wanted to pull. I did so, too, and pulled my current trailer with just such an engine and THM 400 trans. I had the power to go anywhere (except extremely high elevation), but only got between 2 and 3 mpg towing... OUCH. I bought my 6.5 Suburban in 2000, before the Duramax's were out (I couldn't have afforded one, though, anyway). Even though I've had some problems with my 6.5 (it had several issues known to others, but not to me), I've modified it to do what I want and it is now a very dependable vehicle...at 223,000 miles. I get 8 mpg towing on average and high 15's solo (in a 7000 lb. vehicle). I am now converted to diesel power for pickups and vehicles used for towing. There is nothing like it. If you've never towed with a diesel, I'd suggest a test drive/tow for a good comparison to see what you're missing.

[DuraDanMax]

Originally posted by WayCoolKennel:
Kennedy,

Is there a way to see that document ? I can call that other dealer I guess and see if he will give me a copy...

Thanks for you help !!!! VERY much appreciated... WayCool,

Do you have an update to your situation? Did the dealer perform your repairs under warrenty? Taking my '03 in Monday, looking for any advise I can get. Heard others say dealers were denying warranty coverage for injectors due to fuel issues, or use of non OEM fuel filters :confused: Just wondering where you are in the process.

Vr,

Dan

[2dogs]

There is nothing like NOT running out of power - and being able to accelerate at almost any level you want with a Diesel that has some modifications. I don't plan on replacing my rig (now just turned 200,000) and she runs like a raped ape. I won't succomb to the new emissions - afterall the B-52 still does her job - you can rebuild a lot cheaper than ever buying new - if you think otherwise - when was the last time you rode in a new city cab?


I pull a 10,000lb trailer and it will go way faster than you should ever go up the steepest hills with no EGT problems primarilly due to my twins. - One of the biggest advantages you failed to mention is RANGE! I go into a lot of out of the way places - and have a custom 100 gallon transfer rank and the 34 gallon one from the factory. But even with the 34 gallon one - I don't get scared as my buddies do with their gas rigs. Heck they can't go hardly anyplace without worrying about having fuel - and I don't mean on the Interstate.

AND:

Diesel is Safer than Gas
Liquid fuel does not burn. It is the vapors that burn. Diesel is much less flamable than is gasoline because diesel has very little vapor at normal temperatures. A diesel engine must get the fuel very hot through intense compression before the fuel will vaporize enough to reliably burn. Not so with gasoline. At room temperature gasoline will easily ignite and stored outside in a hot summer sun it can be easily made to explode.

Diesel is Easier to Store than Gas
All petrolium fuels deteriorate with age, but gasoline dies about 4 times faster. Untreated diesel fuel can often be stored for a year and still be servicable. This is not a recommendation, but it can work. Gasoline though would almost always be ruined in the same length of time. Fuel additives will vastly extent the useful life of both gasoline and diesel, but there again, diesel wins by a wide margin

[mtomac]

My truck has held up very well to 100K+ miles of truckpulling, dragracing, towing heavy, playing in the sand dunes, daily driving and general abuse