View Full Version : Fuel so clean, i gotta wear shades!!!!!!
DURA-MAX3
03-05-2003, 23:22
Just got the Caterpillar 2 micron filter installed today, and it went good. It was very easy to put on, and plumb in. I am running the short filter this time but will probably put the long one on next time. There is plenty of room. The prime pump on the oem filter pulled fuel through both filters in less than 2 minutes. I changed both filters at the same time. If anyone is interested in the part numbers from cat let me know. I have not posted any pics because there are some on the site already. Later...Robert...
Glad to see you were able to get your CAT filter installed and the install went fine. I have had mine in now since Feb 19 and no problems at all.
smile.gif
It will be interesting to see how long the filter lasts. The 2-mic Stanadyne I am experimenting with got about 2300 miles before I noticed a restriction developing. It's installed in the same place. The CAT looks like it will have a little more media than the Stan. What does the element cost again?
woundedbear
03-06-2003, 08:05
TraceF,
The short filter runs $12, the long one is a little over $17. I plan on doing my install post oem this weekend and I, too, am going with the short filter. I plan on changing OEM and CAT filters at 10K, so if the short CAT filter lasts the entire interval, I will continue with it. If not, I will go with the long. There is plenty of room under the hood for either of them.
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: woundedbear ]</p>
BassinRVer
03-06-2003, 08:32
Yes, please post the part numbers from Cat! :cool: :cool: :cool:
DURA-MAX3
03-06-2003, 10:26
Here is the part numbers you will need to install the Cat filter. The only thing you will have to do is go to the local parts store and buy the hose, fittings, and clamps. What i am listing is the things you need to order from cat.
FILTER BASE.......1N-3789
FUEL FILTER.......1R-0750 SHORT OR 1R-0749 TALL
GASKET.....1P-0436 (GOES BETWEEN COVER PLATE WHEN REMOVING PRIME PUMP)
COVER...6N-4414 (REPLACES PRIME PUMP)
PLUG...9S-4182...(FILLS EXTRA HOLE IN FILTER PLATE)
SEAL O RING...3J-7354...(GOES ON PLUG,EXTRA HOLE)
BOLT...8T-0640...(COVER)
BOLT...6V-5218...(COVER)
WASHER...5P-0537...(PUT ON BOLT LISTED ABOVE)
WASHER...9M-1974...(PUT ON BOLT LISTED ABOVE)
Order all these parts and you will have everything you need from Caterpillar...I should note that the cover has two diffrent size holes in it to keep you from installing it backwards, hence the two different size bolts and washers. The gasket also has one hole bigger than the other so look closely before installing. The total price of the parts i got was 110.50 including tax... the total height of the system with the short filter is 9 7/8 inchs tall... If there is any other questions, i'll try to answer tomorrow... Robert...
--------------------
The fittings that go in the filter plate are called male boss threads and will have an o-ring on them...
Rebel_Horseman
03-06-2003, 11:47
Dura-Max3
Does your setup replace the OEM filter and pump? If not where does it install?
Are you anywhere near Houston? If so I'm going to be out there this weekend for the rodeo and I'd like to take a look at your setup if you don't mind. Contact me offlist and maybe we can get together. cowboybinkz71@cs.com
Reb [><]
DURA-MAX3
03-06-2003, 16:19
Rebel_Horseman::::: I am not close to Houston, I'm just northwest of Ft. Worth. About 20 miles west of Decatur, Tx. on 380... The cat filter i have does not replace the factory prime pump or filter. It is added in the fuel line pre factory filter. I simply use the prime pump on the factory unit to fill both filters...
Rebel_Horseman
take a look at the pic's of the filter install & 3rd CAT Filter pics listed in my photo album.
It has all the info you need. CAT part list with numbers, pics of the install, fuel sampling tests before and after the CAT filter.
To see the pic's better click the thumbnail to enlarge and then click full size top right corner.
You will be able to see even the specs of dust.hehe
DURA-MAX3 and I did the same install or very similar....him & I talked after I had installed mine and before he installed his just the other day.
Both these installs were pre OEM filter.
hope this helps
smile.gif
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: ccds ]</p>
kerry witherspoon
03-07-2003, 19:30
CCDS im also from calgary would like to look at your install e mail me at kwitherspoon@shaw.ca
Cajun W/Duramax
03-07-2003, 20:45
Does CAT have a web site that these parts can be ordered from?
I would think it would be better to put the CAT filter post OEM filter, so that the OEM filter can remove the big stuff, rocks, bugs, bolders, and use the CAT filter for fine filtering. Or is it to difficult to do it this way? :(
Dura-max3
You installed your filter pre-OEM, between the tank and the OEM filter, and corndog put his post OEM, between the OEM filter and the injection system. Am I clear on that?
When you have that 2 micron filter between the tank and the OEM filter does that not make the OEM filter redundant and clog up the 2 micron filter much more quickly? I just want to be clear on that because I intend to put one in my truck also. I believe it is the one mod that will give our trucks the most longevity. Stu
[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: dmaxstu ]</p>
dmaxstu
My opinion is that you are safer from a warranty standpoint if you go before the oem system.
A 2 micron filter will clog before the oem obviously. The critical thing is the media size.
I have a Stanadyne (see pics) 2-mic and I got about 2300 miles before I noticed any power loss.
I bet I have real clean fuel though. When I use up the 3 cartridges I bought I will probably go to a very large 2-mic filter to address the media size problem.
Interesting isn't it? A large 2m filter clogs in 2300 miles but the stock one lasts 15,000. Doesn't that tell us something?
Where can I order the fittings I need online?
wangotango
03-08-2003, 15:20
I surely think that the 2-mic after the oem would be far better. Theory is sound.
I also think it's strange that a 2-mic can't be found which directly replaces the oem. Thus, a oem-mic type could be the first filter and then the 2-mic at oem location.
Hoot's point is certainly how I was thinking:
2-mic lasts 2300 miles / oem lasts 10-15000.
Why can't a guy install a guage after the primary 2-mic and monitor pressure or flow or whatever was neccessary. Then he would know that the filter was ready to be changed?
I'm assuming the filter bases/mounts have no bypass so when they clog...flow stops.
Anyone know what the presure/flow necessary for keeping this thing running?
Good install pics. Nice work.
w/t
Actually... the media in the Stanadyne is less than half the surface of the oem. I have one of each cut open and I will add a pic to my photo log shortly.
A filter the size of Kennedy's 2-mic should go 10k I think.
[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]
The photo log has been updated.
[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>
Or even longer if the OE filter is used as a pre-filter...
DURA-MAX3
03-08-2003, 20:51
Why won't anyone listen to what i am telling you. If you get a fuel filter that is made for a semi truck application such as a Cat, Baldwin, Fleetgaurd it will last longer. I have personally ran these Cat 2 mic. filters for at least 12,000 miles with no problems. This is not rocket science. Yes they will plug faster if it is pre factory filter, yes it backwards than recomended, but it is cheaper than down time, fighting with the dealer over injector replacement, or out of warranty expence. The Cat filter i am using is 17.30 and the factory i just bought was 38.09. I think i can change the filter and know that my fuel is cleaner and save money by not changing the factory unit as much...The cleaner the fuel the better, that is the bottom line.
Amen here too, been my position all along. But I paid I think $17.50 for an oem filter from Landuyt.
DURA-MAX3
03-09-2003, 16:03
Yes i bought mine from the dealer, i am going to have to order some from somewhere else...
Raptorrider2001
03-09-2003, 16:31
Dura-Max3
There is a Diesel Injection Service store just around the corner from where we had Bar B Q last month. $17 for Racor filter. smile.gif
Why are some of us dead set against installing their filter post OEM for warranty reasons when the filters we are installing exceed the OEM spec. of 4 microns anyway. My dealer told me the more filtration the better and to go for it. The GM also stated that a warranty claim would not be denied as long as the filter meets or exceeds SPEC. They would not have a leg to stand on for a no brainer like this. Has anyone discussed this with their dealer or are we acting off of an assumption. Personally I would not even deal with someone who would try to stick it to me every chance they got. :eek:
Sure the filters will work OK pre or post but IMHO post has way more advantages.
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: a bear ]</p>
GM Smitty
03-09-2003, 18:57
I had two reasons for going pre OEM. 1) Extremely simple to change a filter...about 2 minutes 2) I was worried about my set up being the last line of defense before injectors. I know when I was installing mine, I was worried about introducing some foreign matter into the fuel line (metal shavings, dirt, thread sealant), but felt much better about it because I knew the fuel still had to run through another filter. That's the reason I might be concerned about warranty claims. The dealer can say that if I installed the filter post OEM, I contaminated the fuel which caused some sort of failure.
Josh
Oh yeah: AMEN for the third time DURA-MAX3
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: GM Smitty ]</p>
Thats what makes JK's Mega Filter unique. it has a intergral o-ring seal in the filter with a post extension below the filter base threads. No way to introduce contaminates when changing the filter. I haven't seen mine yet though (due to arrive wed). Judging from where it will be installed I think changing it will be a walk in the park. Won't even have to lay under the truck with your Sunday clothes. Filter size has many plusses besides change intervals. I spoke with Mark our Baldwin rep. and he said the element filters to 1 micron. :D :D :D
a bear-
Although I think JK is using the right approach, the 'integral seal' isn't unique. The Stanadyne filter doesn't have any threads at all, it slides up on the post over a rubber compression seal and a lock ring forces the seal flat. You can see the seal in my pics, (used filters 3).
As far as pre-oem, I think GM Smitty is on target if a thread type filter is used. The oem would stop the loose friction matter. I doubt these particles would be smaller than 5 or 10 microns but of course anything is possible.
How did you get the element specs from the Baldwin rep? I am speculating the element is a BF7635 but couldn't get John to confirm and as far as I can see the links on his website don't reference any specific part numbers. This seems to be the approximate size with a water drain and filters down to 1 or 2-mic.
If this is correct, I think the filter is a multi-purpose application from what I could tell, meaning not designed as a direct-oem replacement. If this is the case, there will probably be a Baldwin head available for it. I am thinking the OB1308 may fit.
All speculation at this point, just waiting to hear more details about the kit and install instructions.
Damm- I can't spell tonight!!!
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]
I decided to call Baldwin myself and the tech support said the OB1308 would not work with the BF7365 filter. Disregard this idea.
[ 03-10-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>
Sorry, correction on unique. I guess what I meant to say was a good quality that prevents contamination of fuel during maintenance. No doubt the stanadyne and the others being used here are good quality its just my personal preference to run a filter with a large capacity for longer life due to the low micron range we will be running, not to mention other reasons mentioned previously. :rolleyes:
You are correct on size. As I said, I only got 2300 miles from the filter before I noticed performance loss. Media size is going to be critical if we want 2-mic filtering.
DURA-MAX3
03-10-2003, 00:34
There is no reason you can't run different filters with the Cat filter head. I have personally ran baldwin and fleetgaurd filters when i could not get a cat, they will fit because they are made for TRUCKS>><>>>....
FWIW, the install overview has been posted.
Trace,
I was waiting to see if you'd learn that one the hard way or not. ;)
As for the post seal, it is VERY seldom used with conventional spin on filters...
[ 03-10-2003: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>
JK,
I get this message on your site where the filter info should be.....
ERROR: Template file not found.
HTTP/1.0 404 Object Not Found
Note: If you wish to use an absolute template path (e.g. TEMPLATE="/mypath/index.cfm") with CFINCLUDE then you must create a mapping for the path using the ColdFusion Administrator.
Using relative paths (e.g. TEMPLATE="index.cfm" or TEMPLATE="../index.cfm") does not require the creation of any special mappings. It is therefore recommended that you use relative paths with CFINCLUDE whenever possible.
The error occurred while processing an element with a general identifier of (CFINCLUDE), occupying document position (20:1) to (20:33).
ID=240
Dunno, try again, it works for me...
I get the same error as hoot. Tried it from 3 separate PC's.
Sorry guys! I have it in 2 seperaate locations. Try under Duramax Parts or follow this link:
http://www.kennedydiesel.com/categoryresults2.cfm?Category=3&SubCategory=108
FirstDiesel
03-10-2003, 19:24
JK
For the average DIY mechanic, how long to do the install of your unit??
Hard to gauge as I shot pics along the way, but 2-3hrs should cover it. Production units will have mounting hole #3 drilled through, so locating it top the tray will be simplified.
It will take a few minutes pumping the primer pump to fill the filter! :D
Vaughn MacKenzie
03-12-2003, 21:52
DURAMAX 3 & Kennedy
Do you guys know the flow rating of the Cat and Baldwin filter setups you are running? The port in the head of the Cat system looks a bit small. Do you think it would flow adequately on a truck with a hot box?
I am considering an aftermarket setup on my new Dodge Cummins when it arrives, but I don't know yet what I can fit under there.
Vaughn
DURA-MAX3
03-12-2003, 22:44
If it will handle the flow rate of a 600 horsepower 16 liter engine i don't think it will have a problem with these little engines. These filters are for real truck engines...
Vaughn,
Can we correspond via email? I have a couple off-topic questions for you.
Thanks,
[ 03-16-2003: Message edited by: LarryM ]</p>
DURA-MAX3,
I ordered all my CAT parts today. My question to you is what type of fittings should i use to attach the new fuel line to the OEM line? Or did you just push them over the oem lines?
thanks!
DURA-MAX3
04-29-2003, 15:19
The fitting you need to screw in the filter head will be male boss threads. Then i went to an automotive store and had some fittings made to the hoses. the fittings have a farrel type that go over the 1/2 inch line then simply tighten them up. I have ran mine for over 3000 miles now with no problems. Call me at 405-202-1537 if you have any additional questions...
If you use ferule compression fittings on the fuel line make sure they are designed for steel tubing. Some types found in auto parts stores are designed for soft tubing (copper, aluminum, plastic) and they won't "bite" into the steel and seal. Since the Duramax uses a suction system, you can have a small vacuum leak and still not notice it. smile.gif
Hoot...your photo section for the filter install is great! I did have one question though...would the Racor filter that you installed have fit up on the AC compressor as Lone Eagle installed his? If so, was there a reason you chose to install under the air cleaner vs up by the AC compressor. Not trying to start any heated discussions here...it would just seem that up by the AC might be easer to access.
Thanks!
Thanks Scott.
Yes it would have fit there but would have been more fabrication and I didn't like the close quarters. To much chance for hard parts rubbing there.
It's easy to install it under the airbox. Once I get the RivNuts in, changing it will be easy.
I think having the filter at the firewall creates all kinds of access problems. It totally jambs everything up. I guess removing the wheel well liner allows removal. I just like it being out of the way better and the easier install.
[ 04-30-2003: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
Lone Eagle
04-30-2003, 19:07
Hoot, You need to take a closer look at mine. There is good clearance all around and it is the hightest point in the fuel system. The bracket is easy to bolt together or easier to weld one up. It will be easier to change also. Later! Lone Eagle :D
Lone Eagle
Could ya shoot me an email,appreciate it ...
MAC
Looks like we have a couple good locations. I guess they're both workable.
Lone Eagle…I was looking at your photos again tonight, and got to wondering about hood clearance for the filter itself. I have the GMC, which seems to have a lower hood profile than some of the Chevrolet’s. Is yours a Chevrolet?
Lone Eagle
05-03-2003, 21:22
roegs, I drive a Chevy. I have about two inches of clearance between the hood and filter. I had to mount it high for the water drain in the bottom of the filter to clear misc. stuff when changing the element. I could have moved the filter forward and down an inch if I wanted. There was so much room to work with I really didn't have a problem. Like the saying goes: an inch is as good as a mile. Later! Lone Eagle ;)
Lone Eagle,
Maybe I just am a messy guy, but when I
changed out the OEM fuel filter, I dripped
quite a bit of diesel fuel. With your secondary
placed next to the belt and on top of your
engine, isn't there more of a chance of dripping
fuel on the top of a hot engine when it's
time to replace it?
Locating my secondary under the air box was pretty
easy and when changing out the filters, both my OEM Racor
and post OEM Racor will always drip the fuel directly to the
ground. Just a thought.
Nice to know that we got options......... looks nice
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