Changing waterpump

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

So I picked up a new waterpump and am wondering if there is anything special in swapping this in.

My plan is to pull the rad and take it into a shop to get cleaned while I work on the pump. I've replaced pumps before and I expect it to be no big deal, but is there anything special to be concerned about?

I'm putting a 97 pump on the 94 truck.

[MTTwister]

I just got finished fighting mine - ok not in a real hurry to get it back on the road fortunately. ( Sat / Sun 4th July weekend, a couple hours on a couple of evenings, then the next wekend Sat to finish putting it back together.)

What killed my time was fiddling around with things.

Go ahead and remove the Alt, vacuum pod bracket - the whole schmere comes off. Get it off to the side. By the Way - there are Slots in the Vacuum pully that let you get to the 15mm nut behind it- you can get a socket on it versus fighting it with a box end wrench, 1 1/4" socket on a breaker bar that will slip and take out your little pinky on the top of the radiator. :( .

Draining the sucker - I wound up pulling the lower hose off the water pump and dumping the coolant - where-ever. Putting it back together, I tried to get a hole drilled in the rad support for the phony drain plug - but didn't get it lined up quite right, wasted a few hours with that.
I pulled the front grill to clean the rad's and coolers. Of course that required removing the brush bar set-up. ( a personal problem)

The lower rad hose clamp on the rad had the tabs toward the passenger fender - no way to get a decent set of pliers on them without removing the lower fan shroud. 2 bolts - go ahead and do it.
I really wanted to get the new PMD off the "new" IP for a spare - so wasted numerous hours trying to come up with a way to get the stinking screws out. It's still there. :mad:

There's a Plate to timing chain cover gasket available from NAPA. I used that with a little goo-pucky on both sides on the re-mount.
I re-used my upper rad hose for the new thermostat housing. The new crossover hose between the ater pump and the thermostat housing wasn't as good a fit as the old one - not enough pre-bend, and a little short. I re-used my old one, and they're easy to get on and off in-situ.
Re-used as many spring clamps as came with it.

I found a "Barb" for the Heater hose to the thermostat housing fitting, at NAPA also - on the Help rack. 1/2" pipe threads, 5/8" hose, shorty, with a lip to clamp the heater hose to.
Removed the bolts for the A/C compressor so I could get the dual Thermo housing in there - Just let it sort of flop around back and forth on the mounting base.
I could do one a lot faster, but it would still be full weekend project for this kid.
Ya know, always something else to 'fix' while you're in there.

You will need to remove and re-install the 4 studs on the Water Pump Fan mount. Vice grips close to the flange allowed me to get them out without buggering up too many threads.

Can't remember what else I ran into - Oh the usual gasket surface clean up took time and was a pain.
You may need to use a heafty screw driver to move the fuel line- drivers side - above around the thermostat housing bolts. so's to get at the 'inside' one. I relocated easily.

Of course, the usual obligatory cussing and swearing about " Who designed this sucker".

Good luck

[TJ Moose]

For ease of future radiator draining, after your rad is out - drill hole (easy to do from top driver side, big enough to allow tubing through) in sheet metal under drain cock for radiator, attach long hose on draincock, securing with clamp - then lead it down through hole when reinstalling radiator, and once rad is in place, cut off whatever hose you don't need (or coil it and secure it if you want some options for future radiator flushes), leaving enough to hang down and stick into a bucket or jug for the NEXT time you want to empty out the radiator.

[MTTwister]

TJ That was my theory - biggest bit I had was 1/2" - didn't get the hole quite centered where it needed to be, and with the 3rd trial fit of the rad, it was - 'thell with it.
Oh, I also spent a lazy afternoon straightening cooling fins on the rad...

Judith Gap! - somebody's sticking a big wind farm out there. Next PETA will be complaining about the bird kills.

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

Thanks.

How much of the work was related to the new thermo housing? Reason I'm asking is I'm kinda cheaping out and just doing the water pump. I'm going to get the rad cleaned and tested and I think this will be adequate for my needs. If not, then I'll be kicking myself later, but I'm flexible and don't bruise that much ;)

[CoachWagner]

I put a 97 pump in my 95 and it wasn't that difficult but I would try to find a shop that would print out a set of instructions from a manual. You have to use anarobic sealer on the timing plate I think, and some of the bolts needed thread sealant. I lost the set of instruction I had or I would post them put there was a couple of odd little things. Also get the torque specs.

I liked the change to the new pump it seemed to cool a lot quicker. I did not change to the dual t-stats but decided to get the 180 t-stat which also helped.

I just put in Kennedys calibrated fan clutch and 9 blade fan and I think this was a great up grade and worth the extra money. You can really tell when it kicks in how cool it keeps it. I really like the set up I have now for keeping the truck cooler when towing.

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

Well that was fun. About 3 hours to get it apart and clean up the timing plate.

Is it just me or is it weird that the timing cover has to come off to remove the water pump? I swear I've never had to do that before, but it's been a while since I did a water pump and that was on a Ford straight 6 (Maverick). I just don't remeber having to take that much stuff off to remove one.

Anyway, I have a full shop manual for a 97, which seems close enough for this.

I'll ask about the sealer for the timing plate. I do need to get some locktite as well as all the other parts I need to buy.

On the fan bolts (thanks for mentioning that as I missed it and, after re-reading your description, ran out to pull them off the old pump that was going back) I just double nutted them out of the old pump. Saves threads that way.

So, he all goes back together tomorrow (hopefully).

The rad is out and in the trunk of the car. It looks fine but I'm going to get it cleaned (they can do the fins). I think I'll go for the 180 thermostat

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by TJ Moose:
For ease of future radiator draining, after your rad is out - drill hole (easy to do from top driver side, big enough to allow tubing through) in sheet metal under drain cock for radiator, attach long hose on draincock, securing with clamp - then lead it down through hole when reinstalling radiator, and once rad is in place, cut off whatever hose you don't need (or coil it and secure it if you want some options for future radiator flushes), leaving enough to hang down and stick into a bucket or jug for the NEXT time you want to empty out the radiator. Like this:

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/coolantdrain.html

[MTTwister]

Tackle - The water pump design is a wierd one. NAPA does have / can get that Gasket for the pump Plate to Timing chain housing.

If you have it off, you'll have noticed that four of the lower 15mm bolts come out rusty, and go in to the water jacket in the block, seen by the dribble when you've removed them.

I put RTV on the Threads of those 4 when I put it back together ( Oh some time spent cleaning up all the bolts before re-assembly, too). ( they're the 4 that go on both sides of the pump inlet / outlet)

The Crossover really wasn't that big a deal - I got anal on cleaning up the mounting services, which are not readily accessible with everything else in place. It took some wiggle-waggling to get it out - but if you start the lift from passegner side first, you can snake it out. Now remember mine is the '96, withthe A/c compressor on the driver's side. Check Kennedy's site, and other postings here - on the '94 I believe there's some minor bracket grinding required - and the alt is on the driver's side? I could be "wrong".

Also, some of the older thermo housing had an "interesting" design where the Thermostat, when open, blocked coolant flow to a ?? heater? crossover? I saw a pic, and it looked like a wierd set-up.
My single '96 didn't have that block off feature. The '97 is gonna move a lot of water, looks like.

Remember to look at the Heater connector on the thermo housing - there a Chinzy plastic clip keeper set-up. Might want to consider the NAPA stubby fitting, and a short length of 5/8" heater hose.

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

So one store didn't have a thermostat. I called Napa and they want $40 Cdn for a 180 t-stat.

Is it really worth it if my 195 is working fine?

[gmctd]

I'm replacing the water pump in my truck - old style - also, but it's gonna be a lot more work, involving moving the radiator\ac condensor, ext oil coolers, plumbing for the add-in charge-air cooler, even moving a crossmember to clear the lower radiator hose.

Only bright side to this is, the replacement water pump has a CUMMINS 5.9 12v TURBODIESEL, WITH 350HP TST PLATE IN THE INJ PUMP, BOLTED ON BEHIND IT.

OH, YEAH! I'M PUMPED!!!! HOO-BOY !!!

40-gal Sub tank, dual stainless stacks, 5-sp manual trans.
No more PCM............

The truck already looks a whole lot better, even with the 5.9 sittin' on the ground, next to it.

Sorry - didn't mean to hi-jack your post, but, strictly speaking (or, typing) I am 'changing' a waterpump. ;)

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

Geez that's a lot of work for a new waterpump. smile.gif

[CoachWagner]

I got mine from Kennedy. He sells them for $10 US.

Some people claim they see a slighter lower mileage with the 180 but I like to keep it little cooler if I can since I thought the dual tstat was too expensive of a change over. I am not sure if they had single or dual tstats?

Just my thoughts. Anyone else want to jump in on this thought?

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

So, it's done and not leaking. About 6 1/2 hours in total over two nights with the rad cleaned in between. Toughest parts were remembering how the belt goes and getting the lower rad hose on.

Also sprayed out the A/C rad before putting the rad back in. Man there's a lot of junk in there even running a bug screen.

Now to see how he does pulling a trailer up hills.

[NH2112]

I did mine last summer, I think, and including the time spent waiting for the parts place to deliver my pump (time I put to use by pressure-washing the front of the engine with the alternator and p/s brackets off) I spent about 2 1/2 hours on it. Worked over the radiator, with the fan shroud in place and the alternator & p/s pump sitting on the framerails. The worst part is getting the fan/clutch ass'y off the water pump nose.

[ogrice]

I didn't see it mentioned, but I may be mistaken. If you install the 97' h2o pump you have to install the dual thermostat housing too.I would not put it in unless i had both parts. I am positive that you will not be making the full rated flow of 150 gpm. You probably will get about 115 or 120 gpm thru the single thermo stat, but, its your truck and it will work better than stock.

[nvmtnlion]

I did the JK kit. The new thermostat was WAY harder than the water pump to get installed. Slow and patient gets it all done.

I remember someone saying that if you do the HO pump without doing the dual thermostat crossover, that you might blow freeze plugs.

[CoachWagner]

I put in just the pump and its been over a year. No problems. I just thought the dual termostat was pricy. Put in Kennedys calibrated clutch and I love the combination I have now. 97 pump, clutch and fan, 3 inch exhaust. It has been a big improvement over stock for cooling.

[CareyWeber]

Originally posted by gmctd:
I'm replacing the water pump in my truck - old style - also, but it's gonna be a lot more work, involving moving the radiator\ac condensor, ext oil coolers, plumbing for the add-in charge-air cooler, even moving a crossmember to clear the lower radiator hose.

Only bright side to this is, the replacement water pump has a CUMMINS 5.9 12v TURBODIESEL, WITH 350HP TST PLATE IN THE INJ PUMP, BOLTED ON BEHIND IT.

OH, YEAH! I'M PUMPED!!!! HOO-BOY !!!

40-gal Sub tank, dual stainless stacks, 5-sp manual trans.
No more PCM............

The truck already looks a whole lot better, even with the 5.9 sittin' on the ground, next to it.

Sorry - didn't mean to hi-jack your post, but, strictly speaking (or, typing) I am 'changing' a waterpump. ;) GMCTD,

Are you keeping the Dana Spicer 5831 3-speed auxiliary?

If not do you want to sell it?

Carey

[gmctd]

Current plans are to run the 5831\4.10 drivetrain, later switching to Dodge Dana 60 front, 80 rear w\disk brake to get the 3.54 gearing, which the 5.9 really likes.

Bonus will be the coil sprung front setup,for ride quality, and crossover steering setup for bump-steer elimination.

[Andy Chesek]

gmctd,

Sharp looking truck you got there. I'm wondering why you would want to swap out your GM Dana 60 for the Dodge flavor. Have you looked at The Front Dana 60 Bible (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/60_front/) ? I would keep the Dana 60 already there, and modify it if you really wanted the coil setup Dodge uses.

[gmctd]

Thanks, 93_B - but, just like me, those diffs are getting fairly long in the tooth, where obtaining various oem parts is has become difficult to impossible.

The late stuff is workable as found, the disk brakes are oem spec'ed, 3500-series 3.73 and 4.10 gearing is oem limited-slip, if desired, etc.

Oem-matched drivetrain upgrade in a body-style that I like is where I'm headed.

And, 600ftlbs torque at ~2000rpm definitely needs a Dana 80 final drive unit.

[Andy Chesek]

gmctd,

I completely follow you on the Dana 80 in the rear, great choice. If you perused through the front D60 bible, you'll see how many variations there are to a "Dana 60."

I was wondering vintage Dodge D60 you'd go with. I've read of people swearing up and down over the central axle disconnect system in the '94 - up Rams. I don't know if Dodge ever did anything about that or not for the newest models. Not to mention you'd also be giving up your precious kingpin setup for ball joints. And you know you'll have to swap transfer cases for one with a driver's side drop.

I've been sitting here pondering what to do with my '79 Ford Dana 60. I can find GM parts all over the place. And GM and Dodge parts are mostly swappable. Ford parts are harder to come by and cost a little bit more. Was toying with the thought of swapping for a GM D60, but I'd have to switch the transfer case. '88 - '91 Suburbans and Blazers use the NP241 t-case with a passenger side drop... Another benefit of the GM or Dodge D60 is that they're a little stronger than the Ford, at least when it comes to knuckle strength. Could spend $$$ and go with Dedenbear C's and knuckles, but that's total overkill. And my Ford does have dual-piston calipers.

Man, was this thread hijacked or what? :D

[gmctd]

You're right - maybe we should cut-and-paste this over in tom mac's "expose'" ?

[dieselrealtor]

Tacklewasher,

a little off topic, but how do you like your XMonitor?

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

I like it but I'm a gadget freak (as described by my wife).

The cost to get it installed was about the same as a three pod pillar and guages (boost, EGT and tranny).

The advantages (to me) are that it will flash if one of the readings goes over a set amount (that you can change) and it stores the highest reading until you reset it. So you can go for a run, watch where you're driving and then see the results.

Downside is it's not as obvious from a quick glance what the reading is as the numbers are a bit small. Glancing at a guage would be (I think) an easier read.

[20050627|3|008327|000043|65.183.99.20]

Bumping this as, like gmtdc, I went to an extreme to solve my cooling issues while towing.

First I repalced the fan with an 01 duramax fan. Replaced the rad too. The put on a dmax water pump but it wouldn't fit the 6.5 so I changed to a 6.6. Had to do the Allison as well. Then it just didn't look right so I wrapped it in all new sheet metal from an 2001 DMAX.

Cooling problems are gone. So's the PMD.

This new truck looks a lot more reliable but a lot less fun to play with.