DURAMAX VS POWER STROKE

[DURAMAXHD2001]

WENT TO CANADA WITH A BUDDY FISHING HE HAS A 00 POWER STROKE 2500 CC PULLING BOAT. I HAD MY STOCK DIRTY MAX AND BOAT WITH 4 WHEELER IN BACK OF TRUCK. HE WOULD STOP FOR FUEL PUT 26 GALLONS IN FORD. I PUT IN 16 GALLONS. PULLED OUT ON A SMALL HILL AND LET HIM GET THE JUMP I RAN FROM HIM SO EASY. MADE HIM SO MADE HE PUT A BIG CHIP IN IT FOR NEXT YEARS RUN TO CANADA. BEAT HIM IN FUEL ECONOMY AND POWER. GOT TO LOVE THE DIRTY MAX

[billnourse]

Ain't it great? But we'd better enjoy it because Ford is taking over again with their new 6.0, and Dodge is there with the 305HP Cummins. Tests seem to indicate that the D-Max is at the bottom of the power pile again, until 2004, when I'm sure the power will go up again. Competition is good for the power hungry consumer.

Regards,

Bill

[biker Wayne]

Saw an add on TV where the new 6.0 PS out pulled a Duramax. Sure am more than a little curious if GM will offer an upgrade kit to current Duramax owners when they increase the stock HP on the 2004. Yes, I know I can add the Juice. But you know the saying, If you have the power, use it. With a factory upgrade I won't be tempted to use the extra power of the Juice.

[AzKevin]

Reliability and driveability are the most important things for me. Knowing that a vehicle can go 0 to 60 in 8 seconds doesn't always equate to good acceleration. Smaller displacement, double overcam engines can scream with shocking performance from a dead stop but can be woefully inadequate when really needed.

That's not to say the 6.0L engine will be a disappointment, but I'd guess the trend of smaller displacement engines with higher RPM power bands will slowly reduce both driveability and reliability for future diesel designs.

[TooMuchMuscle]

my two cents... "No replacement for displacement"

[DURAMAXHD2001]

NO SUBSTITUTE FOR CUBIC INCHES!!!!!!!!!!
THE ALISON ENGINEER SAYS THE WORD IS 6 SPD ALI
AND 370 HP 720 FT. TOURQUE FOR 2006.THIS IS HEAR SAY BUT I THINK HE IS CLOSE.

[Rebel_Horseman]

Those power numbers sound nice and all, but I think I read somewhere back that the Allison wasn't able to handle that much power on a regular basis. Seems like I remember some discussion on how the max torque was somewhere around 600#. Maybe I'm mistaken. What is the max torque we can handle?

[xwing]

"Smaller displacement, double overcam engines can scream with shocking performance from a dead stop but can be woefully inadequate when really needed"

Based on RESULTS I disagree. True, they _THEORETICALLY_ CAN BE lower torque/for towing, but because of GREAT TUNING, the new Ford BEATS ours SIGNIFICANTLY in towing, right from the get-go! The new Ford engine peaks at 3700-3800rpm. Do we really think that extra 600rpm is going to lead to big failure rates? With technology properly applied, our 6.6 DMax's have beat up on the larger Ford 7.3 engines etc. Now, Ford's 6.0 beats up on US. Displacement makes it easier to make more hp _IF_ you optimize it well, all else equal. If Ford develops their 6.0 better/stronger then they win. We know that putting a 1"x3"x4" Juice box on our DMax, we get 400+hp, gain 10-12mph in quartermile drag speed with NO other changes. GM can do this same thing but the trans won't really take it with "OEM" reliability/without trans slip issues.

If GM carried the SAME torque to 3800rpm instead of 3200, we'd have 356hp with NO more strain on trans! (3800/3200 x 300)=356hp. Throw in a little more fuel/boost and we can get that 400hp WITHOUT trans slip.

I wish Juice box reset shiftpoints higher also.
The Allison trans clearly needs upgrading on torque handling capacity.

[ 11-27-2002: Message edited by: xwing ]</p>

[Jelisfc]

I agree with xwing with a twist. When I run my Dmax/ZF up to 3200 it's really pulling. If you simply bumped the rev limiter to 3700-3800 rpm with no other changes I bet the Dmax numbers would be a lot closer to the 6.0/ZF. Even if the 6.0 has a variable turbo for us catching the next gear at a higher rpm would make a huge difference. If all you Allison boys don't mind brake grading at 4000 rpm then powering up to 3800 can't be much worse.

[ 11-27-2002: Message edited by: Jelisfc ]</p>

[AzKevin]

When you consider that diesel engines are low RPM motors, 600 additional RPMs is substantial. For the Dmax, 600 additional RPMs results in 19% broadening of the RPM band and I'll bet is directly correlation to engine wear. Is the failure rate a function of a squared term? Only GM and Isuzu know that one.

Another item to consider is harshness, vibration, and noise. The Dmax is relatively quiet but tends to become louder the faster the engine spins. For me, let the diesel do the work at lower RPMs where it is fuel efficient, reliable, and comfortable to drive. Add a Juice box to the DMax and there's no need to worry about the 6.0L Powerstroke nor adding more RPMs.

If I want more RPMs I'll put the R1 on the trailer and take it to the track. Or else I'll drive the high spinning, Honda S2000 (aka Corvette killer :confused: ).

[Jelisfc]

"The Dmax is relatively quiet but tends to become louder the faster the engine spins."

Yeah my big block used to get kinda loud at 6500 rpm but that never stopped me!!!

[AzKevin]

"Yeah my big block used to get kinda loud at 6500 rpm but that never stopped me!!!"

stopped you from??

There is a distinction between race cars and work trucks and it's fine if the line is blurry but none the less there is a line. And the majority of folks that think they want to cross that line with a diesel are only wanta bees.

Top 10 list for identifying a diesel race truck wanta be (feel free to fill in the blanks)....

10. you own your first diesel.
9. your idea of a souped up diesel involves a plug in module.
8. you want other folks to develop ideas to make your truck faster (more RPMs please!)
7.
.
.
.
And the #1 reason you're a diesel race truck wanta be...
1. you still want GM to cover your warranty.

[xwing]

So, AZKevin, for YOU the Top 10 list for identifying Your "Real" Diesel Truck Racer:
10. you own your Second+ diesel
9. your idea of a souped up diesel CAN'T involve a plug in module.
8. you DON'T want other folks to develop ideas to make your truck faster (LOWER RPMs please!)
7...
And the #1 reason you're a "REAL" diesel truck racer ...
1. you DON'T want GM to cover your warranty.

Wow. Just trying to figure out where the animosity toward another 5-600rpm (which Ford CAN manage), easy mods which create 100+ hp, and warrantability come from. I bet you're nicer and more reasonable than your primitive attempt at looking down on MANY others suggests ("Wanta Be's" who dare to have "Fun" with their Diesel trucks in ways you don't choose to...)
"Darth, I can feel the Good in you...Come Back from the Dark Side!" ;)

[Tough Guy]

The new 6.0 also has a higher compression ratio than the 6.6.....

This could prove to be a bit harder on the engine with after market upgrades, but would make for better emissions numbers.

Cheers

[hoot]

Here's a comparison that states the new 6.0 is noisy. I was surprised to read that.

http://farmindustrynews.com/microsites/index.asp?srid=11331&magazineid=15&SiteID=5

[afp]

From the guys I've seen doing the testing, the Allison seems to be good for about 750 ft lbs or so. The Juice at level 4 only gives about 680 at the rear wheels, which would probably be 740-750 at the crank. Newer versions of the Juice do not put the tranny in to limp mode (my version 4.0 hasn't), but the "Hot" Juice will. The Hot Juice does add another 35 HP and more torque.

The normal Juice at level four seems to be a good safe max for an unmodified Allison.

Blaine

Blaine

[Jelisfc]

AzKevin,

"The Dmax is relatively quiet but tends to become louder the faster the engine spins."

I was just stating the obvious. Higher rpms usually equals higher sound. Even though my S-10 occasionally saw 6500 that doesn't mean I cruised at that rpm. If you read my post carefully I didn't say reprogram for more power just more rpm to help keep the turbo lag to a minimum with a manual trans.

I guess I'll have to amend my sig to add my previous diesel experience since you think I'm a newbie.

Number of diesels - 2, 3 including my parents.
1982 6.2 - 100,000 miles. Purchased in 1988 before driving a diesel was cool and electronic diesel controls were cutting edge.

Class A CDL, Have made a living driving truck. Relatively short time, only 150,000 miles.

Driven every imaginable type of diesel equipment in the Army's arsenal for 17 years from trucks to dozers to tanks.

With only 1600 miles on my Dmax I will say I'm impressed with the engine but...that's what you get when you put a 520 ft lbs in a pickup!!!