hot juice v 110 dynodominator

[fredw]

have a freind that has the hot juice, we will be doing some truck comparing over the weekend, what should i suspect, i think both chips are from the same manufactuer, wht is your comparision

[sdaver]

I think the 110 bdog is a van aaken...........get us the details...... :D dave

[Toddster]

I'll tell ya first hand the Hot Juice will smoke the 110hp VA...With the VA set on 230, well, thats another story... :eek:

[Kennedy]

Toddster/CPmac,

Is that VA box updated to v1.7 firmware? Mine were at 1.5, I skipped 1.6 and am waiting to get them back with 1.7. I'm told that there should be a profound difference...

[CPMac632]

No it's 1.6.

[Toddster]

John, are your 1.7's going to be the 230hp version or the "stacker" box version ? 1.6 seems very good, it's as smooth as 230hp can be and the engine does not sound any different than my Hot Juice...Rumor has it no more VA 230hp boxes... :(

[fredw]

a few things to mention:i think my vanaken will beet up on the hot juice, or at least tie him, another thing to you hot juices, on my 03 duramax it has the instant economy fuel miliage, if i shut my bully off, and drive on a level road at 74mph or 118 km/hr i then set display to metric my truck runs between 14 to 19 liters per hundred km, then i turn my bully to 110 hp setting display goes between 8 and 12 liters per hundred km, this is about at least a 30 percent savings in fuel economy and i still have not figured my 33" tires in, i have not heard of any of the hotjuices giving this miliage difference, also i like the idea of a off, 70, 110, dial jk: what is your feeling about this

[Kennedy]

Fredw,

Now don't take offense here, but those milage numbers are skewed. The box is giving more fuel than the computer "sees" so you then drive with less pedal. If you want to check economy, you must do it the old fashioned way. The in cab dial is neat, but how often do you actually switch it? As for a race, if I were you, I'd not wager a large sum of money on the outcome...


Toddster,

The "stacker" box is the old version Smart Box 1. This box was a pressure type box. The new version is a pulse width type much like the Juice. Van Aaken has not released firmware update
capabilities, only tuning file capabilities, so we ked to send them back to the UK for firmware updates. :( The 230HP box is way too much for any sane Dmax owner. I haven't done a dyno run with one yet, but it seems to generate a lot of heat for the power delivered...

[Toddster]

Yeh John, I agree, I would not recomend the 230hp box to many Dmax owners. I am not sane however, so I love it ! Heat is a big issue though manageable with one eye on the pyro and a feathery right foot. With this 1.6 I have not seen the 1780 mark you have seen but I have been objectionably nice to my motor...Speaking of heat, what are you running for cubes in the 100+ hp Hog...I'm leaning towards building a 107" I love strokers but that 107" just seems to be one of the best all around numbers for the street. It has a torque curve like a supermodel ! :cool:

[orange2]

Hey Toddster, What do you call a 100 hp Harley? A VTX honda Just had to do it. I know a guy with a 88 that claims 100 hp, says its 12.5 to 1 with what he said where nascar pistons, big cam and carb. Is that possible? Just get nitrous, and be done with it, or a 121 s&s. Heck, get the bitchin V-Rod.

[Kennedy]

Toddster,

The temps are there, you just aren't seeing them! I only blasted 0-60 empty to get there. I have a VERY fast acting probe/gauge combo that sees more of what is REALLY going on during short burst runs. Most probes are somewhat slow to respond due to size, and placement of the internal components. 95" Mackie setup is detailed in my gallery. I think if I had it to do again, I'd buy a complete engine and set mine aside...

[fredw]

jk: just got back, they were very close as i thought, no gain with the hot juice, as you were feeling, i do have the 4" exhaust as the hot juice does not, i defuel threw shifts as the hot juice did not, i also run 2.5 liters per 100 km on average better than hot juice for milliage, when i sat in his truck, and the dial adjustment compared to his is a great feature for testing or showing off to others as well doing instant milage, ten times better,thanks fred

[Kennedy]

Fredw,

Just to be certain you understand, the instant MPG readout is useless when a box is installed. There is more fuel going in than what the ECM sees. As for the ET's between the boxes, I haven't had the VA come close to the 90 HP Juice. Hoping to see if the 1.7 firmware for the VA closes the gap...

[fredw]

thanks jk: will check it out at the pump and compare, to the instant reading, sounded to good to be true,as for the v1,7 firmware, i think you will be impressed :eek:

[fredw]

first off: i talked to jk this afternoon and understood what he was saying, second off, this is no ****ing match between him and myself, just stating the facts...

so later tonight i had to take my daughter back,and the coditions were perfect for the test(road is very even, 100 miles each way, no wind, light trafic,speed driven each way was 73mph(117km/h), fuel tank filled to the filler cap,
-16 to -20 degrees celceus outside

so the facts: measured distance with garman gps(ouside ant.), as well compared to odemeter, difference was 7.46 percent(due to larger tires, 33") i filled fuel twice(their an back,coop cardlock)drove up their with vanaken on the 110hp setting(102.75 miles and 17.54 liters used), my average econ. read 10.7 liters per 100km, this miliage works out to 26.6 miles per imperial gallon, as i reported before.

on my way back i shut the vanaken off, i drove 103 miles and the truck took 23.45 liters and the average econ. displayed was 14.8liters per 100km, the milage works out to 20.14 miles per imperial gallon

conclusion: to the best of my ability these are the actual numbers i have reported and not skewed

milage worked out to be 24.4percent better with 110 vanaken over stock truck

average economy displayed was about .5mpg high on stock setting, and about 2mpg high on 110 setting, these figures are corrected for the tire sise

i must say the milage increase is hard to beleive,but it is their,

as for the 110hp, bullydog has confirmed that it is at the tires, dyno graphs to prove it, still waiting on what vanaken says

one very very happy customer :D :D :D :D

[ 03-03-2003: Message edited by: fredw ]</p>

[Kennedy]

Hmmmm,

I just MAY stand corrected here on the mpg thing. Sure doesn't make sense, but if a guy can get a 24% increase in economy. Sure seems too good to be true. Dunno what to say, but as soon as mine come back from across the pond, I'll try them. FYI, the 1.7 firmware is no more than a couple weeks old as I understand.

As for HP numbers, I have it straight from the horse's mouth at Van Aaken that the 110HP number is calculated engine gain as performed by their dyno. I believe CPMac is familiar with how these figures are obtained...

[fredw]

(here is my question and answer from vanaken)

i have the 110dyno dominator, i have been told it is at the rear wheels (110hp), then i have been told it is at the crankshaft, the transmission loses about 15 percent, so is it rwhp gain of 110 or crankshaft hp

I am a little confused by this question. Surely the power gain at the crank is the same as the power gain at the wheels - for this to be untrue the power loss through the gearbox would need to change between runs and as long as you are doing the runs with the torque converter locked this won't happen. It doesn't matter where you measure it, a power gain is a power gain.


Fred,

It makes no difference!!!!

If the GAIN is 110hp then this will be the same at the wheels or at the crank, you loose the same amount of hp through drivetrain losses in the before test as you will in the after test, ie;

Remember this is the GAIN that we are talking about, not the absolute power.

So, (picking figures out of the air)

Standard truck flywheel hp = 300hp
Modified truck flywheel hp = 410hp

Standard truck rear wheel hp = 240hp
Modified truck rear wheel hp = 350hp

The gain is 110hp whichever way you look at it! Of course you loose power through the transmission but this loss will be the same with or without the box, the GAIN at the flywheel will be the same as the GAIN at the rear wheels since the bit between the flywheel and the rear wheels (ie. the gearbox and drivetrain) do not change!

Regards,

Mark M
Technical Manager
van Aaken Developments

[Kennedy]

I haven't had a chance to dyno one personally, but hope to soon.

Here is my reply recieved from the MPG computer question posed to VA:

Q: I am ASSUMING that the module will skew the MPG numbers as calculated by the ECM? I have heard a claim of 24% MPG increase...

A: Yes, the vehicle MPG figures will be innacurate when using this unit. Since we are going in after the ECU, it knows nothing about the extra fuel being added. It is still possible to get some fuel saving with this unit though, it really depends on your driving style.

[fredw]

jk i received this statment this morning as well from vanaken, you might be intrested by it:

Fred,

The "1.7" that you refer to is the firmware version, and isn't really connected to the power. Throughout initial development and early production there are always many changes made to the firmware to correct any teething troubles so you inevitably end up with different firmware versions. As far as we are currently aware there are no remaining troubles with this unit, we have certainly had no reports of any for some time, so hopefully the firmware versions should change little from now on.

The current firmware version is 1.8 although there is no noticeable difference between this and version 1.7, the update was for our own benefit only. There are to be no further updates in the foreseeable future.

We are aware that other manufacturers of similar units are planning to release higher power versions (around 140hp I believe) and we are still undecided whether to match this or not. We do not want to get into a hp competition between manufacturers, as it is the consumer who will loose out in the end - the more power you put through your truck the more stress you place on it. We may offer a choice of power levels. If we did want to match the power we easily could, you may have read reports of a +220hp version of our unit? (not available for general sale).

I also read the extract that you sent me about your fuel consumption. I'm glad that you measured the amount of fuel used, since the vehicle econ display will be inaccurate when using the unit. Because the SmartBox E connects after the ECU the computer is not aware of the changes that are being made to the fuelling and so cannot calculate for them, but because you measured the actual amount of fuel consumed over the distance the test is still entirely valid!

Glad you like the unit,

Regards,

Mark M
Technical Manager
van Aaken Developments

[fredw]

jk:have you tried out you v1.7 vanakken boxes yet and done any comparisons for them, thanks fred

[huntindog]

Fred, I just read your milage report. That's hard to believe!
I think there may be an error.
When fueling these trucks, the attitude (levelness) is very important. many people have reported filling their trucks to the brim, then pulling around to the othe side of the pump, and putting 3 more gallons in!
If you run the tank empty, or fuel at the excact same pump, then these errors can be minimized.
Also the best way is to average the milage over time. This requires accurate record keeping.
Cheers!

[Kennedy]

Fred,

They are actually to V 1.9 now.

Without going into the details, the HP is right there with the 90 HP Juice, but the torque is still a bit low and late. In speaking with Mark at Van Aaken, they are waiting for their new truck to come in...

[fredw]

huntindog: as for the milage, i have been in the range that i have said eariler for the last few months, i also have a freind that has the same and over this last weekend he had a hiway trip 1300km in total and made 26.5mpg with the bully on the 3rd poistion, so i am not the only one with this power box getting the great milage


jk: thanks for the comparison opion