View Full Version : Stacking and transmission problems
I have a lifted, crewcab, 03 with the 85 hp predator, duramaximizer, 90 hp juice, straight exhaust, and K and N filter system.. Is it more beneficial to run them all on high, or does someone know of a "sweet spot" I can set them on?? I enjoy going to the track, though my times aren't that great... The tranny usually fails before the eighth mile, but always before the quarter.. It's best run at Bradenton Motorsports Park is a 15.01 at only 80 mph... The tranny failed and slowed the truck rapidly.. The fastest trap speed so far is 94.5 mph.. That was in 2 wheel drive.. The et was still 15.1 with a snailish 2.6 60'.. Does anyone have an idea for a less expensive way to keep the tranny from failing?? Any help would be greatly appreciated..
GMC-2002-Dmax
06-09-2003, 15:53
Originally posted by LMorse:
I have a lifted, crewcab, 03 with the 85 hp predator, duramaximizer, 90 hp juice, straight exhaust, and K and N filter system.. Is it more beneficial to run them all on high, or does someone know of a "sweet spot" I can set them on?? I enjoy going to the track, though my times aren't that great... The tranny usually fails before the eighth mile, but always before the quarter.. It's best run at Bradenton Motorsports Park is a 15.01 at only 80 mph... The tranny failed and slowed the truck rapidly.. The fastest trap speed so far is 94.5 mph.. That was in 2 wheel drive.. The et was still 15.1 with a snailish 2.6 60'.. Does anyone have an idea for a less expensive way to keep the tranny from failing?? Any help would be greatly appreciated.. Looking at your info, you did not say what tire size you have, BUT, you need more gear. :eek: :eek:
I would say depending on tire size 4:10's at least.
GMC ;)
:rolleyes: Here we go again!
You will not have luck stacking with the stock transmission. The 90 HP Juice is nearing the max for 5th gear. The Hot juice is, in many cases, trimming fuel in 5th gear to prevent slippage.
Of the combos, I like the pressure (maximizer) on a pulse Juice barring any potential leak issues associated with increased pressure.
To me, it seems that a single pulse width box is a better option as ANY single box is capable of turning the injectors on for all OR more duty cycle than is optimum...
I think you are about 550 miles from help. Go North by Northwest to northern Florida. Just look for the Sun by the Coast.... ;)
Burner------> :D
I run stock tires at the track, 315 Buckshots all other times... I called suncoast for a price.. $4200... I hate putting the money into it, though I guess there's no use buying other upgrades if I can't get it to the ground.. Time to save up...
i agree with kennedy but use the pred 0 tune for more speed
Run JUST the Juice on the 90 HP setting, make a full pass under power, and I bet it will be as fast or faster...
i dunno jk the 03s dont limp as easy the 90 hp juice a duramaxamiser and pred 0 tune for more speed i would bet on the stackers over the juice,just my opinion
a64pilot
06-10-2003, 07:53
king D or John,
I've been running the snot out of my 01 CC Dooley with TST set at level 9&9 for a couple of months now. It runs strong and hard with only noticable defueling in the 1st to 2nd. It dosen't limp, or more accurately hasen't yet. I'm certainely not complaining, but why hasen't this one limped?
GMCTRUCK
06-10-2003, 08:08
a64pilot, I'm guessing you're running the standard Powermax. Because the competition Powermax will blow right through a stock tranny before you even get to level 9. There is also an improved version of the original 140hp Powermax. You might want to make sure you've got it as it makes some more power down low compared to the original.
Could be that the box is early and a bit lazy, BUT it also could be that you are slipping somewhat, but not enough to trip the Allison's default.
FWIW, depending on the box, and how hard it overpowers the clutches, I can see, feel, hear it and bck out BEFORE the Allison sees it and punts...
a64pilot
06-10-2003, 09:55
GMCTRUCK,
It is an early standard. I don't want the comp box until I get a tranny that can handle it. I believe that there might be enough slipping going on to damage the tranny if it slips enough to limp it. Maybe almost every time you limp a tranny you weaken it a little every time? Who knows. I have approached the power very slowly over several thousand miles and have never limped it. I've heard that the 01's software shifed a little more firmly and was less likely to limp, and I've heard that the 03's shifted softer, but were less likely to limp due to improved clutch friction material. I've also heard that if you approach power slowly the tranny will handle more in the long run. I don't know if any of this is true. Was tying to get some answers from people who would know. Particularly if there is damage going on prior to limp mode or does limp mode prevent all damage?
The Std. TST Powermax version had updates as well...
i tried a powermax a while back and it was great on the bottom but the ypper gears were not good for my truck .i never limped either ,however there arer a lot of people loveing this new comp tst version i may give it a try again once jk gives us a dyno post on it
I tried running the 90 edge and the maximizer turned partially up with the predator on stock tune. It ran a 15.04.. Right on the fastest time.. Still going into limp.. I do believe the more you take the tranny to failure the weaker it gets.. It's went into limp passing and merging in traffic now.. The truck only has 8100 miles on it.. Oh well... Does anyone have a recommendation on either to go with Suncoast or ATS?? I'd appreciate the help if anyone has info.. I was quoted $3200 without installation for the ATS, $4200 installed at suncoast..
Try the 0hp tune on the Predator and the Juice with the Maximizer. Remember ONE pulse box and one psi...
I still haven't figured out how these guys are seeing gains when stacking ECM programs with pulse modules and pressure boxes. I've run a 3'fer combo like this and made LESS HP than my 2 box combo...
Originally posted by kennedy:
Try the 0hp tune on the Predator and the Juice with the Maximizer. Remember ONE pulse box and one psi...
I still haven't figured out how these guys are seeing gains when stacking ECM programs with pulse modules and pressure boxes. I've run a 3'fer combo like this and made LESS HP than my 2 box combo... I think it's seat of the pants and power of suggestion .... Some is good more is better ..... ;)
What is gained down low is lost in the shifts and up top .....
Mac :eek:
the only real luck i have had as far as stacking pulse boxes is with the pred and i feel i got improvement because the pred doesnt have enough timing .i have also ran a hot juice on 90 with a duramaxamizer and a ppe reflash and the juice did send it 0-60m faster but egts were insane,i dont know how the pulse stacking works but i will loook into it more oce the bd tranny is installed
The simple way to put it is that if you gain decent HP with modest EGT gains, you are doing good, but when 20 HP costs 200
Early TST boxes had a built in delay as an approach to lessoning transmission destruction. The new TST box does not have the delay.
A64pilot, the delay in your early box may be the reason your transmission is doing well. I don't think any of the tuners knew the limitations of the Allison when the truck first came out. However, I believe that TST made a simple delay adjustment and added an EGT limiter where as "The Juice" really did their homework. Edge seems to ...eh...modulate the power to the transmission. Edge seems to have made a concerted effort to save our 4,000-dollar transmissions. Yet, the Juice still allows as much power as possible to hit the ground. ;)
-- Predator = HP, heat and low torque / great for tire size, codes, gears, diagnostics and speed limiters
-- Duramaximizer = low, low and low but it can make heat
-- 90 HP Juice = good HP, GREAT TQ, some heat (on higher settings) and well engineered programming
-- Straight exhaust = almost enough HP to cancel out the "fan" when it kicks in, L3 Juice.
-- K&N = not a whole lot. Better than paper in "really" wet conditions
That's my take on it. tongue.gif
-- Listen to John Kennedy, he's been there done that and he knows.
Burner-----> :D
Originally posted by Burner:
-- Listen to John Kennedy, he's been there done that and he knows.
Burner-----> :D The best way to power, performance AND longevity IMHO is NOT stacking, and staying away from excessive rail psi. In other words, do as I say not as I do... ;)
a64pilot
06-11-2003, 05:58
Burner,
How does the juice detect slippage when it's not tied into the TCM?
Originally posted by a64pilot:
Burner,
How does the juice detect slippage when it's not tied into the TCM? Well, technically the Juice does not detect slippage the TCM detects slippage reports to ECM to defuel , Edge stays with in the boundaries and allows the defuel to take place ..... Not the case with other applications as I'm led to believe...
Mac
a64pilot
06-11-2003, 08:03
mackin,
I've been led to believe that the TST only intercepts and modify's existing signals, not add any or delete any. So as I understand it if there is a defuel signal it won't be deleted, modified yes, but not deleted. Isn't this why until the tranny relearns there is excessive defueling between shifts? So if the TCM detects slippage and tells the PCM to defuel then defueling should occur. BTW, I'm speaking only of the standard TST, not the comp box. Now if even after defueling there is enough power to slip it then the tranny will limp as I understand it.
If the preceeding is true then how does the Juice put more power to the ground than the TST ? Or is the Juice's max power output more closely matched to the stock tranny's ability and the TST box may be putting out just a little too much ?
I've never limped mine, but the limp occurs at higher RPM's where boost and HP are high right? Why would a delay in power help protect the tranny, and if a delay helps protect the tranny wouldn't I want to keep the delay?
Originally posted by a64pilot:
mackin,
I've been led to believe that the TST only intercepts and modify's existing signals, not add any or delete any. So as I understand it if there is a defuel signal it won't be deleted, modified yes, but not deleted. Isn't this why until the tranny relearns there is excessive defueling between shifts? So if the TCM detects slippage and tells the PCM to defuel then defueling should occur. BTW, I'm speaking only of the standard TST, not the comp box. Now if even after defueling there is enough power to slip it then the tranny will limp as I understand it.
If the preceeding is true then how does the Juice put more power to the ground than the TST ? Or is the Juice's max power output more closely matched to the stock tranny's ability and the TST box may be putting out just a little too much ?
I've never limped mine, but the limp occurs at higher RPM's where boost and HP are high right? Why would a delay in power help protect the tranny, and if a delay helps protect the tranny wouldn't I want to keep the delay? Then the base 140 TST works with in the capabilities of the Allison .... Yes, the Allison does learn to except additional power, shift better, tighten,adapt, but has it's "limits" .... Defueling never completely goes away,good it should stay....
Limp can also occur during a gear exchange, if enough over torque is delivered .....Limp is Not only isolated to OD .....Therefore a delay protects and avoids over torque conditions in shifts ....
The point is that if a Tuner stays with in the capabilities the Allison it is "safer" ..... This is what the Edge program does and others .... I didn't mean to imply differently ....
The Juice will put more down as reported as they have mastered the Torque "delivery" .... Has been proven on a dyno .....
The Hot juice level is pushing the envelope .... Like It's been said anything added will zing out of OD if pushed hard enough, especially under load,as in a nice hill grade.... ;) If not, it's slipping ..... Wouldn't no anything about it personally .... :D
By the way,
I've been in a TST comp auto at higher levels ..... You would not want to go there any time soon ,but there is lots of potential.... Also Hot Juice with drugs,Easily can blows right thru shifts .... So says a little birdie .....
Mac :eek:
big dipper
06-11-2003, 14:38
Mac,
That wouldn't be the same birdie who kept going pooh on YOUR truck, would it? ;)
George
drive south ol yankee friend......... :D dave
Originally posted by sdaver:
drive south ol yankee friend......... :D dave I already maped it out 21 hrs.....LOL
Hey you tell Joe if he really wants to brake into the Highest per capita income in the nation ,pack up the wagon,and meet me half way .....
Mac :D :D :D
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