View Full Version : Propane + Juice=????
Has anyone tried this combo yet? I've got a buddy looking to do it. As of yet they are awaiting the arrival of their juice. Edge says there shouldn't be a problem but they havent tested it yet. Does anyone here know just how well it will work with the changed timing and injector pulse width?
Later
Seven
Sign me up ............ :D :D
Right after a visit or call to ATS .......... I would believe you have to do some tranny mods , like at least the valve body ......... OR You'll just be limping around ........
MAC :D :D
Mac, looks like you are getting addicted to power a little too much. Take some Juice and call me in the morning.LOL :D tongue.gif :D
Later
Seven
SoCalDMAX
05-09-2002, 18:32
Gentlemen,
We will know shortly. Same height, just later.
Regards, Steve (Muttering, "If MAC can hook this thing up, anybody should be able to..." :D )
SoCalDMAX
05-09-2002, 23:36
OK,
I got home today and a white box was sitting on the front porch. Opened it up and ... Surprise! a 60hp beta Juice module inside. I must have been a VERY good boy this year...
Snapped a couple of pictures of it and then installed it in under 3 minutes. It's a 3" by 4" sealed anodized aluminum box with "snakeskin" sheathing covering the two cables.
Drove around a little bit with it on the highest setting ("It has lower levels?" said MAC ;) ) and I'm vey pleased with how it operates.
Crack open the throttle sharply and gobs of torque try to break the tires loose. The engine revs like a gasser and boost comes up VERY early in the band, making the engine run and sound smoother than usual.
It does smoke a little bit when stomped on at low rpm, but the low end torque is phenomenal. When John Kennedy stated that the widened pulse width brought power on much earlier in the band, he was right on the money.
The Max Power Plug gives good top end power, but the Juice really fattens up the bottom end and midrange grunt. I did a number of 50mph to 90mph runs, accelerating as hard as possible without forcing a downshift. This confirms my suspicions: if you step on it, and the engine pulls at a "reasonable rate" (determined by the TCM?) it doesn't need to downshift.
I will make a video of the truck accelerating as quickly as possible up the steepest hill around and you can judge for yourselves the kind of power available. Remember, this is a 60hp model and I'm guessing it runs from 50 to 90mph on level ground in about 7-8 seconds.
Now the fun part: propane. I know, all of you secretly wanted to see me scatter Allison parts all over 4 lanes of fwy. Don't lie, I know it's true. But someone's gotta try it.
The first time I punched it with the propane on, it rocketed forward then started shuddering in 5th. After that, it accelerated smoothly, faster than ever before and was well behaved. No broken parts, no shuddering, no clattering, no extra noise. Just smooth, turbine-like power with a whoosh of turbo.
The EGTs with the Juice never exceeded 1230*. This was at redline in 4th or close to redline in 5th, momentary peaks. 95% of the time accelerating, it was 1100* or less. That's about what I've been seeing with the truck all along. The bad news is, I saw a very brief peak of 1450* with the Juice and propane. Remember, this is on the highest setting for both devices and should only be reserved for the criminally insane.
I would say EGTs appeared to be pretty close to stock when driven at less than full throttle. At full throttle, they may be slightly higher, but probably no more than 50-100* higher.
My wastegate is hooked up and I saw boost peaks of 22-23psi. The throttle is MUCH more responsive and cruising on the fwy at 80 required a fraction of the normal throttle. It would have been nice to have a Tech II to see what APP really was.
The real question is: how does it tow? The answer is: I don't have a trailer nor access to one. I WILL find a local Dmax owner to ride with. We'll install it on his truck and tow his 5er up the largest hill around.
All I gotta do is say please... ;)
Without my G Tech Pro or a track, I have no numbers to post. I will make it to the track in the next week or 2. I will state that the Juice *feels* very powerful (think of the area under the curve), due to it's early rush of torque and it gets the motor up into it's power band very early on. The throttle is still silky smooth and the engine very driveable, just much more powerful. It plays well with the Power Plug or the propane and doesn't let the tranny slip or set any SES codes that I saw in the hour or so of varied acceleration runs.
That's all I can think of for now, I'll answer any questions I can.
Regards, Steve
[ 05-09-2002: Message edited by: SoCalDMAX ]</p>
pinehill
05-10-2002, 09:51
Two questions, Steve:
1. Did you have your Max Power Plug operating when doing your tests with Edge only, and Edge + propane?
2. What was ambient temperature during your tests?
AlaskaDmax
05-10-2002, 11:16
Question...
How are you guys getting the betas?
:confused:
AlaskaDmax ,
Well you know .... I could tell you ........ But ........ I'd have to KILL you ........ So it would do you no good to know ..... :D :D Just hang in there everyone who desires one will get one ....... Have you ordered one yet ........ That could be your first step ...... Call EDGE ............ Get in line , perhaps you to will hit the D-MAX lottery .......... Forget about beta boxes ....... Who knows what SO-CAL-DMAX got ..........[quote[Crack open the throttle sharply and gobs of torque try to break the tires loose
[/quote] TRY's to break the tires loose ....LAMO....That's not what I got tongue.gif Probably something Aaron dug up to keep him quiet, so he would go away, it's probably a hand me down like a old pair of jeans , a couple hole shots and it will render it self useless ...... LOL
MAC :D :D
[ 05-10-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
SoCalDMAX
05-10-2002, 23:06
pinehill,
1. I tried the Power Plug with the Edge Juice, but I set the dial at about 50%. I couldn't see how adding waaay too much fuel could be good, but I might have been wrong, I'm no expert. The Juice really does seem to make the engine run smoother and quieter than just stock. It was just as smooth while driving with the Power Plug and Juice on, but at idle, the Power Plug was making the motor a little louder, as usual. The Juice + propane was already producing enough power to make me wonder how the drivetrain would hold up, so I didn't even bother to try all 3 together.
In the back of my mind I kept thinking that all 3 mods together would be pushing the engine/tranny so far beyond what the ECM or any of the 3 aftermarket mfrs had been anticipating that if anything blew up, it would almost be expected. I did get the tranny to slip and go into limp mode tonight with the Juice and propane on. Up my favorite steepest hill at 80mph she let loose. I guess with the propane, even the Juice couldn't protect it.
2. Ambient temp. last night was 70*.
MAC,
YOU... bustin' on ME??? OUCH!!! THAT'S gonna leave a mark! YOU'RE buyin' the first round at Duke's for that! ;)
It's true, who knows what version I got. I was told it is a 60hp beta version. I'm sure if someone ordered one right now, the only version they would ship out would be a 90hp production version. Rest assured, this 60hp version puts down all the power the tires can take, wheelspin gets you nowhere anyways.
To be honest, I was reading all of MAC's posts and chalking up a lot of it to excitement and maybe too much coffee. After using the Juice for 2 days, I can say he wasn't exaggerating by any stretch.
The best way to describe how the truck drives with the Juice is: it feels as if it now weighs half as much. It accelerates and cruises effortlessly with almost no throttle at all.
Regards, Steve
Steve,
Excellent report. Torque occurs low in the rpm band and is instantaneous, no need to wait for the turbo to spool up. It's the antidote to the towing "shift business". :cool:
It's good to hear EGTs are acceptable at least without the propane. Edge is aware of the beta product smoke issue. If one can even imagine, the released product will address the smoke and be more powerful!! I think there was some talk about waivers to ensure prospective owners have their doctor's permission to exercize the Juice. ;) :D
In preparation for your future towing testing (AKA REAL WORLD USE) I'm sending the GTech back this morning. smile.gif
SoCalDMAX,
Well, of course, after all, you left the DOOR wide open for me ....... tongue.gif I Couldn't resist ........... :D
I'll buy first round no problem ...... When I get back out there ..........
MAC
SoCal,
If you cant make the Allison default, you ain't trying hard enough :D
Near as I can tell, the first Juice I got was a retarded timing version, which would explain why power was assertive, but just adequate. Now I will be swapping it for a newer version that will hopefully make it more compatible with my truck.
To test the Allison's 5th gear holding ability:
50mph cruise on, T/H on. Step down as far as you can w/o causing a downshift. Mine will go a couple of seconds before slipping out...
Haven't tested the Edge's trans saving ability yet.
SoCalDMAX
05-15-2002, 13:01
Hi John,
I can make the tranny slip/limp within 8 or 9 sec with the propane or propane and Power Play on, especially on a steep hill.
The Juice I'm using (60hp) feels like it's making nearly as much power as the propane, but it seems very good at protecting the tranny. I did get it to slip/limp once with Juice and propane on, but it was at 80mph up a steep hill with the peddle floored. At that point, the extra fuel and propane chain reaction was in full swing and the Juice box just couldn't react fast enough to save it.
I'm learning how to feather the throttle to get gobs of power and not blow anything up. The unsympathetic look on the wife's face if I told her I broke my toy would be enough to keep me from repeating that experiment soon. ;)
Regards, Steve
I will guarrantee that if you use max power on the Juice with propane in anything but a super light truck, the Allison will not stand it.
The Edge stands as the only SINGLE box that will slip my transmission in 5th...
JK,
quote :"The Edge stands as the only SINGLE box that will slip my transmission in 5th..."
Just wondering ,
Don't you think that post should have come with an EXPLANATION? As to How? Why? When? In tow haul?
Perhaps a don't try this at home disclosure?
You certainly were trying to make it happen . NO?
Also you might add how the EDGE Allison safety feature worked and detuned the shift, under normal conditions, while pushing it hard.........
Unless you were going for a scare tactic .......... Keep in mind people want to get these BOXES (as you know)and rely on info here , (as you know) and to say that with out an explanation one might think it is a WILL DO IT all the time ....... NO ?
MAC
:confused:
[ 05-15-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Well I have said all along, these trucks are quite individualistic. What works on mine doesn't necessarily work on others and visa versa. What needs to be understood here is that this:
1) It is absolutely recommended by Edge that a pyrometer be installed. This box has enough fuel in it to get you in trouble if usedly blindly or irresponsibly.
2) The Juice is NOT recommended for towing on settings 3 and 4. Not only will EGTs be a concern, but so will transmission slippage. This box is designed to skirt the "edge" at the request of the power mongers behind the wheel. The lower power settings are in place to make it functional for a wide market.
As for my transmission slippage, it occurred in 5th gear during an acceleration run. My truck, being as heavy, or heavier than most, and running as strong or stronger than most produced enough torque to slip the transmission and cause it to neutralize. This was the first time (no I do not make a habit of "ragging" my transmission) that this has ever occurred with any SINGLE box. When stacked, I cannot run it hard in 5th or I will not have a transmission left. I have the deep pan and Transynd fluid in place to ensure that any slippage causes minimal damage to the transmission.
Long and short is this: Use the max setting in moderation to avoid any potential problems. It has been my observation that any stacking of modules/programs/drugs with the Juice/AMP WILL get you serious slippage in 5th gear. This is the only gear that this is apparent, BUT this clutch is also used in 3rd? as I understand.
JK,
May I ask, did you achieve TORQUE CONVERTER LOCK ?...... Assuming fifth meaning overdrive ........ Or were you driving just to see if slippage could, or would occur? Checking the built in safety were you ? ..... We all no automatics are made to slip ......... It is excessive slippage and heat that causes the problems .... Are, or were, your tranny temps within range ? ... Mine will, even more so, since I deep panned it with 100% synthetic ........ Never seen it over 180 degrees ... No, I don't drive conservative ....... Seen 30 #s boost, and spiked a 1300 degree EGT ,pulling a hill at 90/95 MPH empty,easily could of revved out ........ tongue.gif
Still trying to figure out what you mean by individuality ? You must have one of those one and only things .? Like when I had the only HEAVY around this side off L.I.Sound ......... I see your point in perhaps hauling around a bigger heavier truck ...... Like you got lead weights strapped to your axles or something, but are you saying you have perhaps screwed up your software with your TECH 2 ...... So now it doesn't except change so well ? ...... I mean hell I've put this Box I have in 4 different trucks ... 01's, 02's software update, (mine has none , MAY 01 build date , HAPPY BIRTHDAY ) no software update, and it worked flawless after a reprogram on the tranny (see thread on self reprogram they old dropper down routine) ........ How else could you're truck be different? Just trying to understand this since I've seen and ridden in, drove some, I don't know a dozen or so ... They all seem like clones to me..........
MAC :D
Hey mackin,
What the heck are you babbling about. I had to go back and re-read JK's post and found nothing wrong with it and very similar to what I have seen, read and experienced first hand. I have personally knocked my tranny out in fifth a couple of times under heavy grunt torque, propane on.
I have also talked to others privey to info from Edge Products that EGT's can get real high on the upper settings under tow. Why don't you hook up 16K and take your truck up a long, long steep hill, pegged. Do not look at your EGT gauge. Take a cell phone.
All kidding aside......
JK knows his stuff. I like your comments and laugh alot but JK is pretty much right on.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
hoot ,
s this an open forum?......... Am I not allowed to ask questions? If this is a one way street who's driving?
On edit ....... After further review I deleted the majority of this post ...... As to perhaps I was to harsh ...... Those who have seen you know, those that didn't well ....... I was or did rip someone (HOOT) a new *- hole .......... Little much ...... It's been cleared up ......... I'll be a MAN about this, and end it ,now .........
MAC
[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Desert Diesel
05-16-2002, 16:32
Mackin,
Get a grip :rolleyes: Hoot did'nt say anything that deserved that kind of attack! :confused:
Why do you have to defend this product so badly? it's just another mod! and there will be more.
David
Did you every think that I want info as not to reproduce a slippage in my 7500 LB truck ????????????? Do you not think I would like to now what the tranny temps were ? Why did hoot respond to my post? Could he possibly answer my questions on tranny temps with the EDGE ........ He doesn't have one, now does he? All I want is info .? PERIOD ........ Do you get it now?....... I defend only myself, I couldn't care less about the product, I care more so about my truck ........ You do not refer BABBLING as an INSULT? In addition he is challenging my knowledge ... As if ......... Soly it would appear to me his goal was not to answer my question but rather .. I do not know ....., You fill in the blank ....... Sometimes I do not get what is at stake here ........ Perhaps brownie points ? .............You're interpretation is your own ........ I don't get why he even responed,and frankly I don't care ............ I'm no sugar coater I call it like I see it .........
ON EDIT: On rereading his post, Is he not implying I'm the COURT JESTER around here and not to be taken serious? When I ask legit questions ?......... Where did I imply that JK was telling something false? I'm positive I will get no responses from either parties involved ....... When the real question's come up .... The politics begin ...........
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Take my word for it or not, if you try to stack on the Juice it will blow off fifth gear with relative ease. The 90 HP setting on the Juice is all the stock Allison will handle IMHO...
I have not tried rolling on into 5th, but on a full power shift, the Juice has all it can handle.
Just thought I would share some info from the latest issue of The Turbo Register I received ....... One of many informative articles ......... This particular one was about magazines that did a study on tranny temps and what the approx. longevity would be ........ The results I'm reporting are from OFF-ROAD magazine, there were others, but they seemed a little far fetched to me ..........
At degrees Life Expectancy
175 ------> 240,000 ------->Optimal heat level for oil, seals, clutches, plates
195 -----> 120,000
220 ------> 50,000 --------> Oil viscosity begins to break down
240 --------> 25,000 -------> Varnish begins to form
260 -------->15,000 --------> seals harden
295 ----------> 4,000 ---------> plates slip
315----------> 2,000 --------> seals and clutches burn out
These would have to be sustained constant temps.This is a general consensus ,I'm sure.......... The amazing part to me is what little temp rise how far the life expectancy drops ...... If this isn't a call to your local Allison dealer to do a deep pan, synthetic change nothing is ......... I seen a drop of a Minimum of 10 to 15 degrees ... that is a lot according to this chart ........ This was done as an advisement to tranny coolers in the rag......... it was in the TDR rag for the best reason to have a tranny temp guage ........ The important messages is as reported in the TDR rag is just a mear 20 degree elevation in temp cuts the life expectancy in half ...........
MAC
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
JK,
Without getting into the BS here ........ You originally said Juice alone will slip 5'TH gear ....Quote :"The Edge stands as the only SINGLE box that will slip my transmission in 5th..."
..... Now your saying if you stack it ....
Quote: Take my word for it or not, if you try to stack on the Juice it will blow off fifth gear with relative ease.....The 90 HP setting on the Juice is all the stock Allison will handle IMHO...
Which is it? What am I missing ? Could you answer me straight up ?
Does the juice slip 5TH gear alone ? In your stock CC D-MAX .......
What were your tranny temps ?
I guess you'll never answer me why your truck is UNIQUE .... Just curious thats all .............
MAC :confused:
getupingo
05-16-2002, 18:59
JK,
Was the tranny in tow/haul mode or not?
And if you have guages please tell the temp of the tranny when it slipped.
All we need are simple answers.
thanks
mackin,
All I'm saying is what everybody else in the business has been saying recently. When you approach 100 and above hp increase, you may get a limp event. I don't care if the trans is -40 degrees. Who said temp is the reason? The sensors read rpm differences and when they exceed a certain parameter, bingo. What does the Edge Box do? I'm not sure but I presume it also reads the same sensors but does a little jig to fool the ecm into de-powering before the tranny burps. Does it work flawlessly? Is this what this whole arguement is all about?
BTW: I do understand your getting upset about getting answers. Not neccessarily from anyone in particular, just from real experts who know what this engine is capable of and exactly how the trans deals with extra power. The answers to these and the EGT questions have been few and far between. We're pretty much on our own. We all have been experimenting, some with more knowledge and equipment than others. Remember, the people with the real answers aren't gonna spill the beans on a forum. They have money to make in this capitalistic society ;)
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: hoot ]</p>
hoot,
Do you wear GLASSES ... PUT them on .......... Read this Quote :"The Edge stands as the only======> SINGLE <======box that will slip my transmission in 5th..."
Can you see "SINGLE" .. Define, I will ....... ALL BY IT SELF ........ Next did you "see" anyone mention "TOWING" but you ? ..........Answer NO ............DOES IT SAY ANYTHING ABOUT PROPANE ...Answer ...... NO ........ I'm asking John Kennedy .. THE TESTER OFF THE REAL DEAL SOME LEGIT QUESTIONS ...... SO YOUR OPINION AFTER YOU INSULT ME ....... IS UNNECESSARY ..........
MAC
ON EDIT : QUOTE: Remember, the people with the real answers aren't gonna spill the beans on a forum. They have money to make in this capitalistic society
THEN DO NOT POST AT ALL ABOUT IT HERE , OR TELL IT ALL....... DON'T TRY AND FOOL ME ............ THIS IS A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE ...........LET IT RIP .........
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
mackin,
Testy are we? One jab post and you go through the roof. You're right, the post was a big mistake.
WOW !!
Thats all I can say.
I'm just an innocent lurker, but I had to respond here!
Mackin,
Did you wake up on the wrong side of the Truck again?
No post here warranted your obviously angered replies.
I understand your quest for knowledge in this area, as it IS the limiting factor in these trucks.
The people who responded, are here to help you. They are nice people, its time to treat them that way.
Were all sorry that your question wasn't answered by your intended poster, but come on, there was no need for your explosion!
Take a DEEP breath...HOLD IT....and let it out....SLOWLY.
Peace
mackin,
I understand where you are coming from here. It's frustrating when people don't respond to you.
Sometimes people remember later that they have a financial interest and wished they could take back what they've already said. On the otherhand it could be pride, miscommunication, etc.
The answers will come in time. Hang in there and don't let it get to you. I guarantee you there's more than one diesel guru out there! ;) :D
mackin,
Keep in mind that the full version will be out and all kinds of circumstances involving the Juice will be posted.Don't let 'em get to you, you're WAY above it.... ;) :rolleyes:
Yes, it is out of my normal character ........ You see this is the way I see it, if I'm wrong constructive criticism is fine with me .......
I can take a joke or a dig just as well as anyone ....... I'm thicked skin, in my position dealing with the individual's, professional, every day that I do you have to know when is, and not, the time to bite ones tongue so to speak ......... If anyone has info on a particular thread even if it's humorous join in it is all fun ....... Unfortunately IMHO, HOOT was coming in arrogant on the defense for JK ......... WHY? IMHO, was way of topic, well where I, who he addressed, was leading to, to get EXPERT advice ........ If he came in and just reaffirmed let's say what AZ-KEVIN did, above, now that makes a lot of sense to me ....... To me he came in armed and ready, with the politics on this board ........ I for one will not buy into it or take DO-DO from anyone ..........SORRY, not for the tongue lashing, but offending all neutral parties ......
Which takes me to .......... I as you know, I have had the JUICE, #2 to get one, that's who .......There is controversy on what is what on the boxes ......... So I follow ALL the threads about EDGE ........ Now there is a lot more hitting the streets, still controversial as to what is what ........... So since I have not upgraded yet .......... I want as much info as possible ....... I ask what is so wrong with that? Don't think my motive here is to defend anything, but yours and truly, me, and my D-MAX ... KABISH .........
As I see it the board EXPERT no dig, just my consensus of what is written, has one ........ Or does he? If you follow JK post he is confused too....I mean follow the threads up to the rendezvous, going to do some testing. Right? Then he thinks Aaron is messing with him .? Right? Then he get another box and it's night and day to what he had .? Right? Now back up a little. I got ahead of my self ..... Meanwhile back home, a whole bunch, close to real deals hit the streets, no apparent problems .......... We start to get some info DYNO numbers back from the RENDEZVOUS, mind you the production model .... Impressive ........ So no problems reported HOLDING 5'TH gear on the dyno ..... RIGHT? So this thread was started on JUICE and PROPANE .......... Well, we all know what the limitations are on the Allison by know ........ If you don't then YOU'ALL got a reading assignment ......... JK offered up some info, VOLUNTEERED I MIGHT ADD ........ I'm an excellent reader and I seen what was said "SINGLE " BOX to slip 5TH gear .......... If you read every post here, on this thread, you will see he is also going to test the SAFETY, but he has not yet ......
So I got some question's ........ Not going to go through them again there here, up above ........
Is JK just one of the GUYS or is he a PROFESSIONAL? He leaves an awful lot of windows open, for speculation ...... What is that all about? That may be good for some of you, but not me ........ I know it's going to P**s of some of you off...... I feel it is an injustice to me and all the Forum members ........ After all he VOLUNTEERED the comments ...... RIGHT? So bring your expert proof to the table .........
Why is your truck HEAVIER then anyone else?
Why is your truck UNIQUE?
Why is your truck better then anyone else?
If your truck is tweaked by you and you are not a good example for testing after market MODS why post what you do ,or did, without explanation? I am not questioning his KNOWLEDGE , I'm positive he knows more than me. but I'm sure he can answer, these simple questions I ask without some one coming to his rescue. The point is when you make a statement's like these , why not back it up ........I'm to mature to PLAY HIDE AND SEEK ........... Don't play beat around the bush with me, either , please ........
MAC
[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
OK, I'll spell it out in black and white here:
On a 1/4 mile run with Juice only on max power at the 4-5 shift, the Allison cannot apply hard enough (in my case) to lock in. This is with TH on or off. This is a function of torque along with the fact that the Allison is NOT designed to do what I am asking it to do. It is a heavy duty transmission and is not designed to be a speed shifter. Doing a roll on it seems to do just fine. Stacking will definitely slip it. Mine will slip it on a roll on when stacked so I do not run full out in 5th.
Back to the individualistic thing. It's simple. What works on one truck will not necessarily work on others. We've seen it many times in the forum here, and I've seen it personally many times. Module and programming alterations CAN tend to magnify these differences and exploit the weaknesses of the individual truck, pure and simple. MOST will have no problem, while some will pull their hair out trying to work out the bugs.
One truck lopes, the other doesn't.
One truck gets awesome mpg, and the other gets poor.
One truck smokes black with stock programming, the other doesn't.
One truck leaks fuel, the other doesn't.
One will burn rubber, the other will not.
One truck (sruburn's for example) does not run well on power boxes, but these same boxes work fine on mine. Mine does some unique things with the Juice on, and the very same Juice box works fine on others. Desert Diesel's truck defuels very little at upshift, mine will fall flat on its face during a shift with the same modification.
Those at RIV know that my truck is not your average Dmax. The 3 gears of rubber at DAS kinda showed that. To date I have run to the level of 376.1 RW HP, and 821.4 Lb/Ft of torque without incident in gears 1-4.
As for stacking, in case I wasn't clear enough, I would NOT recommend it with the Allison in 5th gear.
Those who have read my posts will realize that I like to keep it short and sweet. Simple and to the point. I don't type long letters etc...
John K.
Thank you .............For your explanation ........ Makes sense ,that's all I wanted was your view, where you were coming from .....
Some times short and sweet won't work ..........
MAC :D
Speaking of slipping the 5th gear. What mods should be necessary to get rid of this problem? Does the TC slip any? Just what mods should have to be done on this tranny to keep it alive?
The following are monitored:
Engine RPM
ISS (transmission input shaft speed)
OSS (transmission output shaft speed)
TCCSS (torque converter clutch slip speed) <not sure if the terminology is correct here>
Engine RPM vs ISS would indicate TCC slip speed.
An ISS vs OSS discrepency will indicate an incorrect ratio error (trans component slipping) based on the indicated gear ratio and the variance between the shaft speeds. I have not monitored or recorded any of these runs to verify slippage is not occurrung in the intermediate gears. Naturally, the TCM will allow a certain tolerance prior to setting codes.
To this point, I have ONLY seen the ISS/OSS discrepency, and no indication of TCCSS error. Now it is just a matter of time till we find who has the mods for the transmission to allow it to handle the power levels we are capable of generating...
On edit: Shaft speed/slip speed ...
[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: kennedy ]</p>
I would think it stands for "shaft" speed.
More Power
05-17-2002, 19:37
Don't want to give away too much of the story, but on the return trip from the BC Rendezvous, I purposely ran at level 4 four with the BD EZ Amp.
We were pulling a 7K travel trailer and had another 1000# in the truck. We crossed several mountain passes on I-90 between Seattle and Missoula. Pulled all of them in OD without any Allison slippage (I watched the tach). We ran hard enough to give it a good test :D . At the rpms we were running, I'm pretty sure the engine was at max torque a time or two.
MP
More Power,
OMG ............ That is what I like to here ......... When will we get to here the real story ? You tease ..... Some of us, me included were a week away 3000 miles + .......... So we are relying on you ....... Do tell ........
MAC :D
pinehill
05-18-2002, 00:19
And a couple more questions, Jim:
What kind of EGTs were you running while pulling the passes in level 4?
and,
Are you running the stock exhaust, or have you upgraded to 4"?
More Power
05-18-2002, 13:57
EGT's are a concern when towing at level 4. That's why gauges are a requirement, and why a lower setting is recommended for towing.
I'm running the stock exhaust for now. This is to generate a performance/EGT baseline for an upcoming 4" exhaust system installation.
MP
Mac,
I to was just sitting back and watching the thread and couldn't undestand your frustration. My interpetation of what JK said (this box make ALOT of power and can cause shift default. No other previous stand alone power adder could do this. ) I didn't think anyhting else. I felt he was impressed that it made enough power to cause this without useing two power adders together. Ididn't Think he meant to mislead anyone. Just my opinion.
midwest,
I feel inclined ,although now late in the thread,
I was not trying to discredit JK in anyway (or HOOT) ........ Just trying my best to dig some INFO out of him (JK)thats all, I know he holds a lot ........ Perhaps I wasn't as tactical , or I apeared to 'SNOOTY", "SNOTY" ... I'll keep it in CHECK next time, I hope ......... What I wish is he would tell me is all his little SECRETS about his truck ........ But he won't ...... GASH-DARN IT ....... I'll keep prying ........I hope you understand .......
MAC :D
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