Best addition for towing.

[Paintdude]

I am sure this has been asked a million times, but I have to ask myself.

A guy I know has a new Dmax and he pulls a horse trailer 10,000lbs long distances and wants more power. I was thinking the Preditor might be his easiest bet and most cost affective. I do not think he will be very comfortable plugging and unplugging the EDGe unit in the engine compartment. (Just a guess) His last trip he got 7mpg loaded and on the way home without the trailer he got 20 mpg. He has always had Fords in the past and was very disapointed with the power on the loaded trip with the Dmax. He was very suprised the Dmax had 3.73 gears and wants 4.11 gears but I told him that isn`t a option, that he needed to get some kind of programer..

Thanks in advance.. smile.gif

[Applecore]

The Edge Juice takes about 1 minute to install and remove. We installed ours a year ago. We pull a 36' 5th wheel, gross about 21,000lb, more than your friend - We use level 2 (of 4 levels) for towing - the extra towing power is incredible. We did go for Banks 4" exhaust and Exhaust/ Boost guages. We have towed from Minnesota to Washington State, over the rockies, plus Florida last winter using the Juice - wouldn't be without it!!!!!

[RWTD]

Originally posted by Paintdude:
A guy I know has a new Dmax and he pulls a horse trailer 10,000lbs long distances and wants more power. I was thinking the Preditor might be his easiest bet and most cost affective.With the newest revision of the Predator, I feel he'd be able to tow in the 65 with the weight that you mentioned (definitely in the 40 with no problem). An EGT gauge is always a recommended item for many reasons, regardless of what tuning device you use, especially if you're towing. If he's not willing to install a guage, I just ask him that he exercises caution.

Sincerely...

[ 09-18-2003, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil ]

[svpdiesel]

I have an 03, and was disappointed with it till I added a std juice. I tow on level 2, and pull a 7000 lb cargo trailer with a higher profile than most horse trailers. I haven't met a grade yet that it won't accelerate going up. It never downshifts, runs in cruise control at any speed that you want, including stupidly fast, gets reasonable mileage (10-14 depending on wind, at 70-80 mph). The difference over stock is unbelievable, even down at level 2.
I haven't tried any other boxes yet, but I think any of the top units will help. Definitely worth it! :D

[DinoMax]

Paintdude, I think either one of the programmers, Predator or Quad, would help him a lot, and they are easy to install/un-install. Just plug & play. He really does need to add gauges w/ any mod, though, especially while towing. A friend of mine just burnt a valve in his ford gasser towing a tractor up a grade w/ a hypertech programmer and no gauges :eek: :( This is not a knock on the hypertech, he was just loaded a little heavy, and had no way to monitor his EGT's. Pulled the same grade, as well as others, empty & w/ no problems. It doesn't take long for EGT's to get out of hand while towing, and they definately need to be monitored. Good Luck, DinoMax :D :D

[fredw]

paintdude: i as well pull a horse trailer in the same weight area, i do know what he feels like with out the extra hp,it does not feel right for the money you pay,for a new truck, i like the others put a power box on, but went with the smartbox e from vanaken(johns sells them) and i never take it off the 110 setting, to my research, i feel they have the lowest egts, but the best is the milage gain, on average i will do about 23percent better than stock,on my truck setup, i prove this to myself ever so often, their is others on this fourm that have said the same with the va, as for the power it is ever so nice on the truck and trans. and am still able to squeal from a dead stop pulling or not, what a feeling, but hard on the cattle, this is what your buddy needs, as for the other boxes, i have not treid, but are as power impressive :eek:

[Phil B.]

Applecore - What are your impressions with the Banks system on the long towing trips? I need an exhaust but do not want to listen to a loud drone for hours on end. Thanks.

[peachin]

Originally posted by svpdiesel:
I have an 03, and was disappointed with it till I added a std juice. I tow on level 2, and pull a 7000 lb cargo trailer with a higher profile than most horse trailers. I haven't met a grade yet that it won't accelerate going up. It never downshifts, runs in cruise control at any speed that you want, including stupidly fast, gets reasonable mileage (10-14 depending on wind, at 70-80 mph). The difference over stock is unbelievable, even down at level 2.
I haven't tried any other boxes yet, but I think any of the top units will help. Definitely worth it! :D

[peachin]

Originally posted by DinoMax:
Paintdude, I think either one of the programmers, Predator or Quad, would help him a lot, and they are easy to install/un-install. Just plug & play. He really does need to add gauges w/ any mod, though, especially while towing. A friend of mine just burnt a valve in his ford gasser towing a tractor up a grade w/ a hypertech programmer and no gauges :eek: :( This is not a knock on the hypertech, he was just loaded a little heavy, and had no way to monitor his EGT's. Pulled the same grade, as well as others, empty & w/ no problems. It doesn't take long for EGT's to get out of hand while towing, and they definately need to be monitored. Good Luck, DinoMax :D :D

[peachin]

Sorry for the double posts!

You should NEVER drive, especially tow, with performance modules WITHOUT GUAGES!. NEVER!

Recently, there have been "salesmen" posting
the discussion of their products (not Kennedy who definately has the experience). It is obvious that some of these posts show a lack of experience of using performance modules.

It's like an infomercial within this Bulletin Board.

Let's sideline these folks. Whoever the Preditor
salesman is - he is not doing his product a service. We all know - at this time - the Juice
is on top of the heap!

It will be interesting to see if this post is edited or removed by "the master"

Peachin - lots of heavy towing, lots of mileage
there is always a price - Heat is the price
Heat is distructive - don't Use performance modules with out a pyrometer

[Paintdude]

I welcome all posative imput. Vendor or not. Ihave no problem with his post. My guess is many people tow without guages, they just do not post here. Bottom line is my friend needs to install guages regardless of what he purchases. He just wants a tweak to improve performance to what his FOrd had, I assume. 40 hp might be enough. It is his truck so it will be his call.

Thanks everyone. I will relay this info to him when he stops back by..

[RWTD]

Lemme requote what I said above:


An EGT gauge is always a recommended item for many reasons, regardless of what tuning device you use, especially if you're towing. If he's not willing to install a guage, I just ask him that he exercises caution.Kind Regards...

[jeff800]

So I'm not getting this, I spend over $40K for a truck that I won't be happy with? Because when I need to haul anything it feels like a slug pulling anything more than 2000 lbs? On top of that I need to spent about $2000 for a programmer, gauges and 4" exhaust. Just to get some decent performance from my stock truck?
Sounds like the Automotive companys need to deliver what the consumer wants off the lot! Well that would be impossible but at least close.

[matt-max]

no offense, but if you paid over $40k for your truck you got taken. and neither of my dmaxes, stock, have ever felt like slugs towing over 2k loads, or 5k loads.

the performance limitations all vehicles face come from government regulations for efficiency, noise and emissions as well as the manufacturers' need to put out a product that has safety margins big enough to keep warranty issues to a minimum as well as leave room for later enhancements when competitors' products inevitably leapfrog them.

nobody NEEDS a performance box for their truck. any current-year stock diesel will tow more load harder with better fuel mileage than anybody thought possible with a stock truck 10 years ago. maybe even 5 years ago.

talk to the guys who tow or towed with the early stock cummins or 6.9 or 7.3 fords or 6.2 or 6.5 gmc trucks. or better yet the gassers.

i used to run ford 460's. with major modification i got one to pull better than a stock dmax with only a three speed auto and 3.55 gears. at a best of 11mpg unloaded, usually about 7 towing. i didn't bother keeping track of how much $ i put into it...thousands.

i just modified a 99 6.5td with about $1000 of products to get, maybe at best, 3/4 the performance of a stock dmax. at least it gets 20mpg unloaded. with $2k of mods, my dmax makes right at 3x the power of that stock 6.5. that's amazing!

it does not matter how much we get, the customer always wants more. gmc could have given us a more powerful dmax from the start. instead they blew the other makes away soundly and left room to add more into the design, safely, later. to me, that's just smart business.

[ibelyea]

I think that the manufacturers have to design the truck for the most stupid driver and to get the performance that this group expects, they have to have gauges, etc. Remember the average driver today fully expects to use and idiot light to check his oil quantity and pressure. To put gauges in or boost the horsepower that we all expect, would have a bunch of burned out transmissions, engine meltdowns and scared passengers.

The Edge is best and all others take a backseat to this well engineered device. If you run stock or near stock tires or use the truck to haul things instead of taking it to drag strip, it is the only way to go. Other devices mess with things that could cause problems. The Edge can take on any hill/Mountain in the US without losing face. For my money it is the best investment I made and after 6000 miles of towing this summer I averaged 10MPG with the 11,700 5th wheel in head winds up to 30 mph. I kept my speed to 60-65. the worst mileage was 8.5 in N.D., Montana headwind. The best was 13.5 in flatland Michigan and Wisconsin. I passed several Fords and GM 8.1's going up some pretty steep hills and they finally caught me going downhill on the other side.

[fredw]

nobody NEEDS a performance box for their truck. any current-year stock diesel will tow more load harder with better fuel mileage than anybody thought possible with a stock truck 10 years ago. maybe even 5 years ago

as for that comment i must ask, have you ever pulled a 10000lb plus trailer, in a 10 mile headwind for a living, i guess not, they have power, but with out the box, it is not even comparable, for shifting, mileage and driver stress, as for the edge box, i guess he has never treied any others, he might be impressed as well :D

[Paintdude]

My Dmax is so awsome in stock trim compared to most diesels I have drove over the years I am somwhat content. I am still resisting..

But then again, when I drive John`s Ford that has been modded and my father in laws Cummins that has been modded. I get the fever..They both drive like gassers on staroids.(sp?)

[Phil B.]

I you go with the Predator, I can tell you from experience that you will definitely want a pyro, first. The v.1.04 Pred. runs very hot in the EGTs. I'm told the latest version addresses the heat but until I see it... The EGTs would have to go down about 400 degrees on my peak tows for me to be happy. Okay, I might be willing to accept only a 300 deg. reduction ;)


Phil B.

[D/A]

I tow with the super juice with stock ehaust level 1 pulling a grade exhaust temps get up there 1300 fairly quick. I then downshift out of overdrive to drop the temps. I tryed level 2 it was really hard to keep watching so I have to stay at level 1. I am wondering what kind of difference the exhaust would make I like the stock sound quiet wouldnt mind changing out if it made a big difference in temps and the sound didnt drive me nuts. Thanks

[DieselDixon]

Well I tow a 8500lb sport trailer and my truck is totally stock with the addition of boost and EGT gauges. I have never had a problem with power both on the flats with a 30 mph head wind and through the hills. I have gotten the EGT's up to 1300 one time going up a 7% hill backed off 5 mph and it was fine. Sure you can always get more power, put I am totally happy with mine just the way it is.

[JEBar]

One of the trailers we pull is a 10,000 lb travel trailer. Have found that running a regular Juice unit in level 2 or a Hot Juice unit in level 1 yields very positive results. Do have an exhaust gauge and recommend adding one ... Jim

[peachin]

There are some Absolutes!

Who would disagree with this one:

DON'T PUT ON A PERFORMANCE MODULE WITHOUT A PYROMETER!

NEVER DRIVE WITHOUT GUAGES!

A previous post said - take it easy if you don't have a pyrometer - Power is a drug - there is no taking it easy - once it "kicks in"

- as Arnold recently said (on Oprah) - I'd rather "pump" than "come"!

The folks who have burned up their engines are not posting here! Even if they are members!

[Paintdude]

I do not think anyone is diagreeing with you. Gauges are the best-first mod then a performance chip,etc.. I know a few guys who have not installed the guages and are still driving thier trucks. I will have guages and will always recommend them, but it is a free country and people will do what they like with thier units. I am thinking keeping it stock and just not worring about the heat issue..

It is like anything else,changing engine oil,trans fluid, rear axle fluid when it should be. many of us do it and many do not.

In the owners manuel for my 03 S-10 it says if you have a posi rear end to change the rear end fluid at the FIRST engine oil change..WHo actually does that..I will ..