Coolant Filters

[a bear]

Has anyone used coolant filters on their trucks?
I was talking to one of our engineers who has a PSD. He installed a kit that uses a Baldwin B 5134 filter. It works off of pressure diffriential from the pump to the recovery tank. He tells me that it first plugged at about 500 miles and the second filter at about 1500 miles. He has since changed the filter at 10K intervals. He said it initially appeared to have filtered out casting sand and other stuff. The kit he purchased was about 60 dollars for the filter base, filter and hoses with fittings. I asked how he can tell when the filter is plugged and he said he changed them when the outlet hose quits getting hot.
Filters are around $4 bucks a piece. Seems to be a good price for something that will benefit the cooling pump and system. Does anyone know if there is a kit for the Duramax? I guess I should have asked.

[LanduytG]

a bear

I have been selling them for about 9 months now. Mostly the PS owners have been putting them on. I have never sold one to anyone putting it on a Dmax but I have for the 6.5 . I have not looked at the Dmax but if you have and extra plug on the water pump you then have a good supply. I really don't think the Dmax has much problem with scaling like the PS does. i have them on my order page. (http://www.lubespecialist.com/Order/order.mv)

Greg

[a bear]

Thanks Greg,
I will look into it further. May be calling you for a kit. smile.gif

[jbplock]

Originally posted by a bear:
... He said it initially appeared to have filtered out casting sand and other stuff ... Tommy,
I had a similar experience with my 98 6.5. I waited until about 35kmi for the first flush and there was a lot of sand and dirt that came out. :eek: Based on that experience with the 6.5 I have been flushing all my vehicles annually with distilled water

[Kennedy]

I have one on my 6.5. Very simple installation, but you won't buy the elements for $4 :eek: In reality, an element should last nearly 100k plus miles. So long as it still gets warm when driving it is working.

I think it seems to keep the cloudiness out of the surge tank. I haven't investigated how to plumb one on the Dmax, but I guess it would be a good idea...


I re-activated it on my site for display purposes only, but will likely move it to Tech Tips.


Here is how I plumb a 6.5:

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=90


All you need is differential pressure to get flow, just like my oilbypass is plumbed.

[Phil B.]

Should it go post-radiator or pre-radiator? ;)

[a bear]

Definitely worth looking into. Should at the very least prolong the life of that expensive gear drive pump. I'll also look under the hood as soon as I get a chance. smile.gif
Phil,
I would think the closer to the pump the better. And the farther away from the pump for the return. smile.gif

[LanduytG]

I can't tell you about the Dmax but on the 6.5 just pull the extra plug from the water pump and install a 3/8" hose barb fitting. Then cut the line to the expansion tank and install a hose barb tee and attach the return from the filter to that. I would classify that as post water pump filtration ;) :D

Greg

[jbplock]

Here's some more info on Coolant and Coolant Filtering...


Engine Coolant Information Index (http://www.amalgatech.com/technical/Index.htm)

FAQS - Coolant Filters (http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/faqs/faqhdcool.htm)

[ 09-10-2003, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: jbplock ]

[jbplock]

I called the Baldwin (http://baldwinfilter.com/) Tech line and they recommended the following coolant filters and Filter base:

B5134 (http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/PartSpecification.asp?URL=PartEntry.asp&partnumber=B5134) , Filter
B5088 (http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/PartSpecification.asp?URL=PartEntry.asp&partnumber=B5088) , Filter, Long Life (change less frequently than the B5134)
CFB5000 (http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/PartSpecification.asp?URL=PartEntry.asp&partnumber=CFB5000) , Coolant Filter Base

I asked about installation and mentioned the plug on the water pump but they said the filter could also be installed as a bypass around the heater core using tees - filter inlet to a tee on the heater inlet hose and filter outlet to a tee on the heater outlet hose

[a bear]

Bill,
I had also considered the heater core hose install. I still want to check for a plug or something on the water pump. I was thinking about making a bracket and mount it where Lone Eagle mounted his fuel filter. If I install a second alternator later I can always move it. Going back to read the info. you posted.

Thanks to all you guys for the info.

[ 09-11-2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: a bear ]

[a bear]

After a under the hood look see the heater hoses look like a good spot with the filter mounted Lone Eagle style on the side of the AC. If anyone finds a plug @ the water pump let me know. I looked a little while but didn't see anything. The heater hoses may be the only option. smile.gif

[LanduytG]

Being a gear drive pump and the fact the pump does not fit anything else I would say no plug. Tom if you can give me a call tomorrow.

Greg

[big dipper]

JP,
A person would think that the 5134 would last longer with it being over an inch longer than the 5088, although you say Baldwin told you different. I guess the media could be different, but can you help clarify this for me? I would think, if the 5134 filtered better (not lasting as long) it would be the filter of choice.

George

[ 09-14-2003, 06:53 AM: Message edited by: big dipper ]

[jbplock]

George,

The B5088 is designed to last 150,000 miles vs. a "standard" service interval for the B5134. The B5088 is also about 4x the cost of the B5134. And yes, Baldwin did say the media was different.. I'm going with the B5134 as I still like to do an annual flush and coolant change.

Keep an eye out for a post from Tommy. I think he will be leading the way on installation for this one ... smile.gif

[a bear]

The pics for the coolant filter install are in the below link. I think :eek:

[mdrag]

a bear,

Nice install! For those with dual alts - any suggestions for a mounting location? ;)

[jbplock]

Yes! Very nice! :D

I noticed your new oil OilGuard Install pics too. Looks great! I like your return line location and the valve on the filter feed line. On mine, I had to sacrifice the fumoto valve for the return line fitting to the pan and draining the oil is a pain - very slow. I have an idea for improving it but I may end up changing to the oil filler like yours. Is that a swivel fitting on the cap?

[ 09-15-2003, 01:35 AM: Message edited by: jbplock ]

[a bear]

mdrag,
Under the air box should work for those w/o a fuel filter there. I also condidered against the fire wall by the OEM fuer filter but it would probably require removal of the mount to change the filter. After the first filter it shouldn't have to be done that often. I kind of wrote off the frame rail because I wanted to keep the hose run short. I figured if I needed more alternator later I would just upgrade to a high output one where the OEM is. smile.gif

Bill,
When I installed the Oil Guard I wanted to be able to shut it off easily in case of a leak while on the road. Just so happened that I was able to keep the fomoto valve. I slipped a piece of snug fitting clear vinyl hose on the outside of the return hose at a couple places for added protection but its probably not needed. I drilled and tapped the center of the cap for 1/8" thread. The cap provided deep and very strong threads. The connection is a 1/8" street L with a JIC connection (no swivel) smile.gif

[ChevyFumes]

I just purchased a Cat base that is a perfect mate for the two holes next A/C pump but the filter will be sideways. Any problem with this? Also standing in from of truck looking at the engine which heater hose is the feed and which is the return? Thanks, Cas

[jbplock]

Cas,
If Tommy doesn't jump in here first, I'll try to look up the answer to your flow question when I get home. I have just about all the parts for my coolant filter install and hope to complete it this weekend. I have to settle for some plastic 5/8 x 3/8 heater hose branch tees I found at Napa. If would prefer brass and will probably change out the plastic if I ever find some brass tees. I also couldn't find ant 3/8 id heater hose locally so I'm using some 3/8 transmission cooler hose for now. I'm thinking it should be rated for the same temp range as coolant hose only with a higher pressure rating. Anyone see a problem with this?

[LanduytG]

Bill

I have been looking high and low for the 5/8x1/2x5/8 and can not get those in brass either. Hose is not a problem and I have all the measurements from Tommy for the bracket. Been so busy this week that the coolant filter has taken the back seat.

Greg

[jbplock]

Greg,
If you put together kit that includes a Duramax bracket, filter, base, fittings and hose it should make this about a 15-minute job! FWIW, I plan to post the details of my install but it will be basically the same as Tommy’s...

Cas,
According to the Helms manual, the heater inlet should be the connection on the left as you face the truck with the hood open. The Helms also says to remove the Quick disconnect fitting that is attached to the heater core (??). I'm not sure why as there is also a hose clamp. I guess I'll find out this weekend (assuming we aren't washed away by Isabel). smile.gif

[ChevyFumes]

Thanks JBPLOCK, but the right side "feels" hotter which would be the inlet. I will check at the shop with thermometer to be sure though.
Are you guys happy with the dexcool or are you changing to the old stuff? I've heard that dexcool can get funky after awhile. Thanks, Cas

[jbplock]

Cas,
I just checked the Helms again and it shows the same figure for the inlet and outlet with an arrow pointing away from the fitting on the right. Looking at it the second time I’m not sure if the arrow is indicating flow or direction of removal… I’ll have to trace the lines and see where they go to be sure. The exploded view of the engine shows a heater pipe originating from the thermostat housing which should go to the heater inlet.

Regarding coolant, I’m sticking with DexCool since it worked well in my 98 K3500 and 2001 Malibu… The current DexCool article (http://www.thedieselpage.com/feature.htm) also gives a thumbs up...

[ 09-18-2003, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: jbplock ]

[ChevyFumes]

I installed today (as well as a oil bpass) and the right hose was the hotter of the two so I used that as my inlet. Went smooth with no problems. i installed two shutoffs right on the base so when I change the filter I will lose very little coolant. Cas

[a bear]

Bill, ChevyFumes,
The driver's side hose is the inlet. I verified this both by tracing and by putting the heater on max with max fan and the passenger side cooled off plenty after a couple minutes. Not sure if it changed on the 2003's but I doubt it. I'm also sticking with Dex.

[jbplock]

Thanks Tommy… Dittos on the drivers-side heater connection being the inlet (I installed mine yesterday). The heater inlet traces back to the top of the coolant crossover housing near the thermostats and the return hose ties into the lower radiator hose.

I ended up mounting the filter behind the bumper without the need for a bracket using one existing bolt and a hole drilled for a the second bolt. This location is a little more hidden but still easily accessible. It would also work for those who have dual alternators like mdrag.… I’ll be posting some pictures and details soon.
smile.gif

[a bear]

Bill,
Great that you located another spot for those that have the dual alternators or may be considering one. I am anxiously awaiting your pics. I have put over 1K miles on my filter in short order by driving to New Orleans then to Houston and I am already seeing a clearer fluid in my recovery tank. :D

[mdrag]

Originally posted by jbplock:
...
I ended up mounting the filter behind the bumper without the need for a bracket using one existing bolt and a hole drilled for a the second bolt. This location is a little more hidden but still easily accessible. It would also work for those who have dual alternators like mdrag.… I’ll be posting some pictures and details soon.
smile.gif jbplock,

Thanks for finding another mounting option. Looks like a coolant filter is back on the list :D

[jbplock]

Mdrag, glad we can help... :D

Here are the ”Behind The Bumper” (http://community.webshots.com/album/91409363hjwmod) Coolant Filter Install pictures. Installing in this location is a little more work than the Lone Eagle position Tommy used, but it does save making a bracket. smile.gif

Hmmm... Lets see... what else can we add a filter to? :rolleyes: :D

[mdrag]

jbplock,

Thanks for posting the pics. Do you see any problems with the horizontal mount? From your pics, is that a bleeder port at the 12 o'clock positon on the mount? I remember that air and Dexcool do not make a good combination ....

mdrag

[LanduytG]

a bear told me that he didn't think the bleeder was needed at least where he mounted his because its under pressure and at the high point. Will have a kit ready for the Dmax I hope by the end of the week.

Bill I don't really see anything wrong with the plastic fittings, this is what they were made for. You will not find that setup all in one peice in brass.

Greg

[jbplock]

Mdrag,
You raise some good questions which I also considered. My reasoning (and long winded answer :rolleyes: ) is as follows:

Since the filter is pressurized and also has an anti-drain back valve, I decided the horizontal mount should be OK. And, per Jim’s Dex-Cool article (http://www.thedieselpage.com/members/features/dexcool.htm), I too was concerned about the potential for creating an Air/Dexcool interface with the coolant filter mod. This is the main reason I chose to mount the filter in a location that was below the coolant level in the expansion tank. Once the air is purged from the system after a drain and re-fill, the filter should stay completely filled with coolant since it is lower than the expansion tank. Initially I also planned on having a bleeder, but decided it wasn’t needed after learning the process for draining, refilling and purging the system of air per the Helms manual. Before connecting the filter to the heater hoses I flushed the system by draining the radiator, refilling with distilled water and purging air. I repeated this three times (it’s probably faster to remove the plugs on the block) and after the third cycle, I added 11 quarts of Dex-Ccool then purged & topped off one last time. Per the Helms manual the air is purged by cycling the engine to 3000 RPMs several times with the cap off and thermostats open (engine hot). At this point I closed the cap and took ride around the block and topped off one more time. Each time the engine is cycled to 3000 RPMs, the coolant level in the expansion tank drops, then rises as the RPMS fall. When all the air is purged the coolant level in the tank doesn't drop as the RPMs are cycled.

I’m keeping a close watch for leaks and signs of the filter plugging, but So far so good … I’m also open to suggestions if I missed something…

Greg,
Dittos, on the plastic fittings… Once I realized that the radiator end-caps and OE heater hose connectors were plastic, I stopped worrying about looking for brass. The Napa 660-1484 fittings are a perfect fit (5/8 x 3/8 x5/8).

smile.gif

[mdrag]

jbplock,

Appears that you have it covered. Thanks again for the info. http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

mdrag

[Kennedy]

I would think that one of those lifetime washable stainless mesh screen type filters would be pretty good in this case.

I put the filter on my 6.5 after "fouling" thermostats following rebuild. My builders were VERY meticulous, so I thingk the crap was in the rad tanks.

I've got a REALLY good notion where to install the hoses for a filter, but want to test flow before I comment...

[mdrag]

jbplock,

I was checking behind the bumper with the grill removed - and on my '01 the clearance is much less. I mounted the coolant filter base outboard on the PS frame rail. It sits fairly high with about 4" clearance to the bottom of the frame, but I'll likely add a shield to be really safe.

I'm exploring another idea for tapping into the coolant system, but still checking to see if it will work. I may end up T'ing into the heater hoses like you and a bear. I don't THINK the hoses will be any longer with the frame mount, and MAY be shorter than behind the bumper.

I like your arrangement for routing the hoses from the heater in/out. Do you recall the lengths of the inlet/outlet pieces and the overall length to the mount?

Your pictures were/are very helpful. Thanks.

mdrag

[jbplock]

Mdrag.

Sounds like you found another good mounting location. http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif
Regarding hose length, IIRC, I needed about 12 ft 3/8 hose for the filter runs. For the heater connections I started with about 3 foot of 5/8 hose and had some left over. I cut 4 pieces of 5/8 hose to fit and saved the OE hoses. I also used a 3/4 quick disconnect tool on the plastic OE heater fittings. smile.gif

[mdrag]

Thanks jbplock. Looks like 5 ft (or less) 'IN' + 5 ft 'OUT' with the 3/8" makes it easily to the frame rail mount from the heater hoses - if I go that route.

mdrag

[HDMXDiesel0817]

Bill,

I'm out of town for a while, and you've added another filter? haha! Must be getting tight under the hood now. Bilsteins should be on their way this week.

Kudos on the coolant filter, may have to stop by again and take a look see on that one. :D

[jbplock]

Jon,

Stop by anytime! :D

[Chris Todd]

I am a returning/renewing member of

[jbplock]

Chris,
Regarding your questions

[mdrag]

Bill (jbplock) or others with coolant filtration,

Have you noticed if your heater output was affected by the coolant filtration install? Your recent/current frigid weather conditions should have provided a more than adequate test to see if 'T'ing off the heater hoses caused a noticable change in heating?

BTW, I'm almost ashamed :( to admit that I haven't attached the hoses to complete the install yet :eek: I'm leaning toward the heater hose route, and hope to finsih this off soon. Thanks.

[jbplock]

Mdrag,

Yes it's been very cold here and I'm ready for spring! We received about 8 more inches of snow last night but the kids are happy - no school today. :D

I haven't noticed any lack of heat with the coolant filter installed behind the grille. The engine temp and heat come up quickly (5-10 min) with grille cover on. There have been a few days when the temperature reading on the mirror has been in the single digits and still plenty of heat. I also haven't relocated the temp sensor, so the actual temp outside was even lower.

I did have one minor problem. About a month ago I found one of the heater hose tee's was weeping a little coolant

[LanduytG]

Bill
Use the constant tension spring clamps. I have been suppling them with the kit and using them on Espar installs. The work really well and never have a leak.

Greg

[a bear]

Chris,
Hope this helps with a couple of your questions. I seem to have missed the last few posts.

I have not had any air interface or other problems with the 2nd alternator location. Due to the filter outlet being at the top of the filter head all air is purged on it's own and winds up in the recovery tank anyway. I don't even feel the bleeder is necessary and I have never had any air accumulate there. This setup stays completely fluid packed. The only reason I left the bleeder there is simply because it's there. My filter inlet /outlet is also 3-4" higher than the coolant level in the expansion tank and works fine. I now have about 12K miles on the setup. Hope this helps out. :D

[jbplock]

Originally posted by LanduytG:
Bill
Use the constant tension spring clamps. I have been suppling them with the kit and using them on Espar installs. The work really well and never have a leak.

Greg Greg, Thanks for the suggestion.. smile.gif

[Heartbeat Hauler]

I guess the next thing is a brake fluid filter. Seems to me there is way to much sub-par filtering coming from GM if we must now filter the coolant....good grief :( Makes you wanna run out and buy a D***e.....oops did I say that out loud? :eek:
I'll probably still do the second fuel filter, but dang it(!) we shouldn't have too.
JP

[a bear]

Bill, Sorry for interfering but I think the clamps Greg is refering to is the spring type in which pliers are used. I also think the ones JK has is the worm screw type. Both work good but I found that the worm type needs to be sized rather close to the hose OD to prevent egg shaping the clamp and preventing a good seal around the parameter of the hose. Still I have found that both are far superior to the regular worm clamps. smile.gif

[jbplock]

Tommy,

Appreciate the input on the differences between the clamps. I’m familiar with spring clamps and the standard worm clamps but I’ve never tried the constant torque worm type. They look pretty rugged for a reusable clamp. Seems like they might offer an advantage in a tight location where it’s hard to get pliers on the spring type.

smile.gif

[mdrag]

Thanks for the help.

I visited the IDEAL CLAMP WEB SITE (http://www.idealclamp.com) and found more information.

The correct product name is CONSTANT TENSION WORM DRIVE CLAMPS (http://www.idealclamp.com/downloads/download2_common.cfm?file=HDClampCatalog.pdf&folder=news&view=idealClamp&CFID=1981578&CFTOKEN=45520417) rather than 'constant torque' that I used in the product review.

The constant tension hose clamps are listed in Fastenal's catalog (http://www.fastenal.com), and with one of their stores a few blocks from my shop.... :D

[a bear]

Does anyone know where the spring type can be found. I like the 360 degree sealing with the resistance to cutting the hose.

[jbplock]

I changed my Baldwin Coolant Filter today after a year and 16,450 miles and was surprised to find a fair amount of black scale and some rust colored residue inside. I first noticed the scale in the coolant that was drained when emptying the filter. Then I found some more inside along with the rusty residue – the case wasn’t rusty but there was some rusty looking sediment. I wasn’t really expecting to find anything but now I’m glad the filter is on there.

I posted Several Pictures (http://community.webshots.com/album/91409363hjwmod/1) of the cut open filter and a sample of the scale that was in the coolant drained from the filter. (the red specs in some of the pics are from the saw I used to cut open the filter .. I need to buy a Tavia filter cutter)

smile.gif

[ 09-11-2004, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: jbplock ]