Extended towing with juice or quad

[chucktwest]

Hello, I'm a newbie and I want to say thanks for all of priceless information on this forum. I was hoping to get some information/advice from anyone with experience using a Juice or Quad during extended towing with a fairly heavy load. Most of the information I have seen here is about the higher hp tunes in use on short runs or on a dyno. I plan on getting gauges when I purchase the box, but I would like to know which horsepower settings I can expect to need to use in order to keep the drivetrain/egt's safe during long hauls. When I am running too fast for the trans to downshift, I would like to have more passing power. Also, when I am pulling at regular highway speeds I don't like the way the trans shifts up and down under the slightest strain. Any advice on what tune with which box would be best for extended towing with 7000lb or more? Do you think it would help with the passing/shifting situations listed above. Thanks for all of your help.

[JEBar]

I suspect you will get a variety of opinions in response to this question. I have between 15,000 and 20,000 towing miles on my truck (44,000+ all together). While I tow any one of several different trailers, two are usually loaded in the 7,000 to 10,000 pound range. I understand your concern for you engine and transmission and have found that towing with a regular Juice Level 2 or a hot Juice set in Level 1 to give me exceptional service. Doing so has resolved the transmission shifting issues you mentioned. EGT's consistently run in pretty much the same range as when I tow without a Juice unit ... Hope this helps ... Jim

[Tractorhauler]

Welcome to the Diesel Page Chuck!
All my towing is done on juice level 2. I purchased juice so that I would not downshift so much on heavy tows. I tow with two different weight categories. I have a 5th wheel that weighs just over 8,500 lbs. loaded up and the Allison doesnt even know shes there. I have towed about 5,000 miles with her on.
My main tow trailer is a 32' gooseneck that weighs 8,000 lbs. empty. I have towed 15,000 miles with her loaded up with anywhere from 23,000 lbs to 27,500 lbs gross. My truck weighs just over 7500. I have been very pleased with the juice and I do not know if I would tow the heavy stuff without it. I did one tow of about 4500 miles with out the juice and I was amazed at how much I downshifted, even in Iowa...and that was my lightest load with the gooseneck.
I do not have any gauges. I must give thanks to the pioneers on this forum who have been on the cutting edge of the juice performance and Allison performance. I have used their advice extensively.
Sorry for the long post. Hope this helps.

Regards,

Mark

[Idle_Chatter]

I'm in the midst of a whole series of towing runs while moving on weekends from Elkton, MD to Sandusky, OH. I have a Juice 4.61 regular that I run on level 4 unloaded. I've been running it on level 3 pulling my 6x6x12 box trailer empty (1300 pounds) and on level 2 when fully loaded (maybe 7000 pounds on board, 8000 to 9000 total weight). The juice makes a world of difference in the towing behavior of the truck. It really enhances all performance, including power ranges, shift points and driveability - but it makes a BIG difference in towing! on the I-70, PA turnpike, Ohio turnpike run that I've been making there are some pretty good grades between Breezewood, PA and the Ohio line. The truck purrs along in overdrive at 65 mph and pulls every grade without a downshift and without exceeding 1000 degrees egt. I've been getting 17 mpg pulling the empty trailer and 15 mpg pulling it loaded. Gauges are absolutely necessary before installing a box and working the truck. I would hold off on a power box until you get gauges. You will be in grave danger of getting high egts pulling a load "blind" with any power box installed. They jump up from my cruising range of 400-600 degrees to 900-1000 degrees pretty quick, and I did have to back out of the throttle to keep them under 1200 degrees once when accelerating up a steep ramp to merge on an uphill coming out of a service area. I just turned 66,666 miles on my truck and will be hauling another load to Ohio in the morning and then towing my trailer with a moderate load to San Antonio, TX and back over the next week. You really owe it to yourself to experience programming performance the way it was meant to be done with a power box, but I strongly advise against doing it without an EGT gauge.

[MAV]

I just towed 4650 miles from Alaska to WI @ 18,000 gross with the Quad tow tuner on #1 50 hp. Does good but not as good as a Juice on level 1. I had gauges with the Juice and would tow very heavy with either the Quad 50 tune or Juice #1 without gauges. They both run very safe EGT's on any grade with any load.

[Bullseye54]

I just towed a 12000lb 5th wheel w/2100lb pin weight over 4500mi in varied terrain with quite a few 6%-7% grades.I have hot juice on level 1,tried on level 2 but EGT would go to high on inclines.As far as shifting goes, with the juice it holds O/D a lot longer.Don't let it lug on steep grades & EGT stay safe.

[cmadmaxman]

Welcome to the board Chuck.

I just got done with a 1500 mile plus tow with our trailer. 16,000 lbs. truck and trailer, and tried using the race tune (70 hp) setting on my Quad tuner. The egt's run up quick on the hills in Kentucky going up I65. You could watch it with out getting into problems, but don't go there with out gauges! Set it back to the 50hp setting with no problems with egt's. Probably could use with out gauges at low settings with most boxes, but most of the members (me included)on here don't. :D

Your right in getting some gagues.

The Quad still down shifted on medium grades, but if you watched the boost gage and hills coming up, you could keep it from down shifting with plenty of power if you wanted it to down shift. With out the tuner I could not get the stock setting to shift up to 5th on a grade unless I was over 75. With the tow tune on the Quad it would shift on up while still on a grade, most of the time.

I asked Quad about keeping it in 5th longer and here is part of his response to this:

We are probably going to release a version that builds hp at a lower rpm and throttle position, but not quite yet. When you start making the power down low you start hurting clutches in the transmission.

We took a little different approach on how the power should be made. In stock form the DMAX is an RPM motor. The more rev's you give it the more power you make. This is true for the Allison. The Allison was built to handle higher rpm torque and horsepower. We try to follow the stock curve, and don't feel that there is any problem with downshifting on grades as it is actually easier on the transmission and motor, because that is how they were made.

Mav and me are having some problems with our tuners because the maping on the 01's are a little diffrent, but Quad is working on this and said he will have a fix soon.

The Juice is a great product and does a great job. Quad is the new kid on the block and comming up with some good programing!

Do some searching on the forum for both products. Lots of good info.

[TBC]

I have towed my 8800 lb TT with a couple of tool boxes in the truck and full aux and main fuel. Total wt 16,100 on the scales, no guessing. I use the 4.61 juice on level two and it works great. Part of one trip was going west on I-40 to Santa Rosa, NM and then north into the mountains. There are some long pulls and some pretty good grades on that stretch. I dropped out of OD twice on I-40. This truck set on 2000 rpm with that load just keeps on chugging along without any strain. EGT's stayed well below the max safe range. Level 2 on the juice is the max manufactured recommendation for towing and it works good. You will like it.

Tom

[king D]

i use the 70 hp qaud or the 75 edge to tow well over 26k combined weight,i have bigger exhaust and gauges ,both of these do fine in the egt department as did a 756 hp va,the qaud seems to run about 50-75 degrees cooler than the va and about 100 cooler than the edge ,but the edge doesnt get to hot by any means either....jess

[Allison Jettester]

I towed my camper and boat, about 9000 lbs., from Md to northern Quebec through the mountains last month with the Juice on level 4. Just because all that power is there, doesn't mean you have to use it to the max. I kept the boost below 20 lbs. most of the time. EGT usually stayed below 1000 degrees except on steep grades where it reached 1200 a couple of times, but only for a few seconds. I did let it go to 25 lbs. twice, (I still didn't have it floored and I think it went down to third gear) passing a Power Stroke pulling a small 5th wheel and then a new Cummings pulling a slightly bigger boat than mine. Egt got up to 1300 for a few seconds, but it was worth it as I left them sitting. The guy in the Cummings really tried to catch up to me as I saw him pour the smoke out, but he didn't even come close. I have the big tranny cooler and with tow-haul, temp never went above 160 degrees, so I know it wasn't slipping. In level 4, you just don't have to use as much throttle to get moving and maintain speed up hills. It was a real pleasure. Gauges are a prerequisite for towing with the Juice though.

Joe

[Brandenburg]

I agree with Allison Jettester. I towed about 15,000 combined in level 4 hot juice and had no problem keeping egts well below 1200 as long as I didn't use cruise on the hills. Cruise tended to apply the throttle too quickly and too hard in some cases at slower speeds. I found that with cruise on and at speeds around 55 on 2 lane roads, my egts would shoot up 300 degrees when it down shifted to fourth as opposed to turning off the cruise and lugging the hills at the same speed in 5th gear. There aren't many big hills in Michigan, but I climbed the one in Ionia starting from a stop at the last light at 55 mph at the top with only 1000 degree egt and plenty of power to spare. :cool:

[NWDmax]

Allison Jettester and Brandenburg have it exactly right imho.
With the camper and boat aboard I just finished a trip set on level 3 Hot Juice.Hills that I previously ran in level 2 with downshift to 4th were pulled in overdrive at speed limit and above while staying at 1200 deg or less.
Drive it with the pyrometer and common sense and you'll be fine.
Btw the pyro probe is mounted pre turbo.
Blake smile.gif

[Brandenburg]

I should add that the stock tranny won't hold if you try to use too much power with a heavy load but when you have a suncoast on the way, it doesn't really matter. smile.gif

[NWDmax]

Brandenburg:I have never limped it when towing have you?
Hopefully with a careful eye and conservative foot I can make the stock tranny last a long long time.
Have yet to limp this thing since I don't have a Suncoast on the way! smile.gif

[Brandenburg]

No I never have, nor have I tried.

[motovet]

Been towing 10,000# with the Juice since the first 3.0 version. I used level 2 with the regular, and now use level 2 in the HOT. It just works!

[RVGuy]

motovet,

Have you ever set a code/turned the SES light on while towing with your Juice in level two?? I usually do on any long tow. I maintain 65 mph while towing a 13k lb. 5er.

The codes usually relate to overboost and mass airflow sensor.

[NWDmax]

I get the SES light every time I tow.
It stays on about a minute on any big hill I climb.
I'm assuming its an overboost code but have never checked.
If it quit coming on I probably would think something was wrong with it! :D

[motovet]

I have never had the SES towing at any level. I did forget to reset the tow/haul one time and towed in the HOT level for 30 or so miles. The only SES I have ever had with the Juice was solo with the 3.0 version. That box hit VERY hard and went through the gears with less de-fueling, or so it seemed. It also limped 5th with ease.

[ 09-08-2003, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: motovet ]