Winter??

[FirstDiesel]

Okay this is my first diesel, hence my name, and I live in S.C. where it really doesn't get too cold. I have a few questions now that it is getting colder.

First, I've seen people mentioning winter blend fuel. What is the difference and what do I need to know about it?? I seem to normally average over 500 miles per tank fill but right now I'm almost to the E and I have less than 400 miles. Nothing different about my driving on this tank. Winter fuel???

Second, temperatures. The last few days we have been having 40's. I noticed the engine seems to be running a little cooler than normal but the tranny is hardly warming up at all. Barely running up to 160 or so. Is this a problem?? I have the cooler scoop for the tranny installed. Do I need to remove it for the winter??

We are going to KY for Thanksgiving. If it gets cold there what do I need to look for in engine/tranny temps?? Can I be hurting anything by letting it run too cool??

Thanks

[mackin]

Larry

Everything you posted seems normal to me...I take no extra precautions except I let it warm up (first start) just a bit more.....Winter blend in your area? I don't know ask your supplier hopefully not a kid or you'll just get a shrug of the shoulders....Winter blend is nothing but a thinned down #2 to prevent gelling in cold weather, more Kero......Some premium station will add additives in addition....You could always use part or all of your winter cover if you run short on heat or want it to raise engine, tranny, temps a tad,leave the spoiler in....I don't bother unless I see temps in the 20's or lower......


MAC

[ 11-21-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>

[BigLakeDMAX]

I can help with the first part of your question and at least let you know you aren't alone on the second part.

Winter blend fuel is a blend of #2 diesel, which we run straight in the summer and #1 diesel which has a lower cloud point - the temperature at which the wax in the fuel will form crystals and clog our filters and fuel lines. This is also referred to as gelling. #1 also has a lower flash point, fewer btu's per gallon and produces about 95% of the power of an equal measure of #2, which results in reduced power and mileage. I've experienced about a 5 - 10% decrease in mileage both with my '02 and with my '97. #1 also competes with home heating oil which results in higher prices for us at the pump during the winter as the quantity demanded of both increases.

In Minnesota, they begin blending our fuel in October, with a 50% #2 and 50% #1 mix, when temperatures may begin to drop below freezing. A 50/50 blend is good to around 0 deg. F. Mobil says straight #2 is good down to about 10 deg., but our suppliers err on the side of safety.

After December 1st, or so, the blend increases to 70% #1 which is supposed to run to -30 F. Here they usually post the blend and the estimated cloud point on our pumps. I've had three diesels and have run the blended fuel straight without problems to 20 below. If the forecast calls for lower temps than that, I always add an anti-gel additive to the tank. Never had a problem yet.

Concerning the engine and tranny temps, I'm seeing the same thing you are. My engine does reach full operating temperature, however it just takes a really long time to get there. My tranny temp is well below 160. Our temps lately have been in the upper 20's to low 30's. I don't think this is a problem, but don't know for sure. I'm looking forward to reading others' posts on this.

[ 11-21-2002: Message edited by: BigLakeDMAX ]</p>

[3176CATPOWER]

Been using the radiator cover supplied with truck for a while now.Engine and tranny warm up much faster with cover and still remain at normal temps with ambient temp of 45 farhenheit even at extended 70 mph speeds.Also the fan does not kick in but for towing the cover comes off.My last two tanks of fuel still got 19.7 mpg mostly highway but am surprised as cooler weather as of late always dropped mpg on gassers I owned at least 2 mpg.I think the cover getting temps to normal faster is helping the mpg.

[letsgo]

Different brassiere' for different folks.

The bumper brassiere' was put on once the temperature dropped to 40*F and will be removed when the tranny reaches its normal operating temperature, (towing or spring).

The upper or radiator brassiere' gets put on when the temperature drops to 30*F or lower, (and removed above 30*F) otherwise nothing warms up, except those seat warmers and the will burn your A$$ off.

Loads of rad square inches perfect for summer not for winter.

good luck.

[MudNurI]

We have never run our "bra"...never plugged the truck in at night..etc. Run the truck the same as if it were summer. Temperatures here in VT are pretty darn cold. We start up the truck in the morning, let her run for about 10 minutes, till the windshield has begun melting the ice/snow..then clean her off, and give it a go. the truck seems to reach higher temps faster than BIL Cummins does. He doesn't have real "heat" for about 15 minutes of driving, after warming up like us, and his lives in a garage, with the cord plugged in. Ours lives outdoors.

Our tranny temp stays about 160. engine temp reaches normal temps, same as in summer.

Never had a problem with it not starting, or taking forever to heat up..

Our fuel is that of a different sort, not sure it there is a winter blend or not??? guess I should check into that.

Brandy

[hoot]

Here in SE Pa. we don't usually get much under 10 deg. So far, all my diesels, no problems and no precautions.

I had a '97 6.5TD that started like it was summer in 10 deg temps. Just a bit noisy. No bra, no plug in.

My current 2001 Dmax also starts and runs almost like it's not cold although we had an unusually warm winter last year.

Now my old '73 Ford backhoe doesn't like temps under 50 deg. Once it gets around 40 or so I have to give it a shot of ether. But then again, the only starting aid it has is an intake heater that isn't working. It's a pretty interesting setup. It's got a heater element in the intake manifold and a fuel feed from a solenoid valve. It actually dumps fuel in the intake. Someone told me it gets an actual fire going in there. I don't know about that.

[Jelisfc]

I'm running the grill cover now. I'm waiting until it gets really cold to see if the bumper cover goes on. This morning it was 30 outside and I'm the start and go type of guy but I can also idle down my side street for 1/3 mile to the main road. By the time it does get cold I'll have the garage cleaned out. Last weekend it was around 40 and I had no problems running 75 on the interstate with the cover on. I have the ZF so can't comment on trans temps.

BigLake, I'm not disagreeing with you cause things change but in the early 90's I hauled fuel and Super America/Ashland Oil blended diesel by the calender. The first step was 30% #1 and later in Dec it went to 50/50. I only mention this because my percentages and yours are backwards. In the end ask the station.

For kicks I just called the Cenex station in town and they haven't switched to blended yet. Kinda suprised me.

[hoot]

I always heard #1 is kerosene. Any truth to that?

[Amianthus]

A buddy of mine gets his home heating oil and his invoice calls it #2 oil. So I've been under the impression that #2 is the same as home fuel, hence the run in prices for #2 during heating season.

As for winter fuel, there have been several mixes that I've bumped into. One is #2 with winter additives (sort of like adding yours at the pump). Another is to cut #2 with #1 at the depot. And another is to cut it yourself at the pump. The big stations allow you to cut it yourself.

A 50/50 mix is a good mix for all around winter use. But when you move up to where BL is, a 70(#1)/30(#2) mix is very common. Of course, it's normally -20* on a regular basis up there.

Running a straight #1 is not a good idea in that it has very little lubricity for your fuel system. That and the mileage/power losses become extreme. And is it the same as Kero? The specifications say no, but at the pump there's not enough difference to care (read usually the same to save from storing several different kinds of fuels at the depot).

Your best bet is to run an additive on your own. That way you are sure of the gelling protection, lubricity, and cetane boost of the fuel when the counter help is less than knowledgeable.

As for temps, be glad you don't drive in my rig. Without my winter front, you won't get heat for at least 10 miles. With the winter front, I get heat after about 7 miles. But your temps seem fine.

[Jelisfc]

Hoot, I've been told #1 and Kerosene are essentially the same. Kerosene is refined more. It is higher on the refining food chain yet really close to #1 in it's charateristics. Less stink essentially. In my '82 6.2 I'd add kerosene when it got extremely cold because the early 6.2's had an unheated filtration system that didn't do much to prevent gelling and they didn't have straight #1. It's cheap too because of no road tax...just don't get caught!!!!!

Home heating oil can be #1 or #2. Basically diesel without additives. Before the low sulpher was mandated we ran #2 heating oil in our fuel delivery trucks with no problems.

I do live about 45 minutes south of Big Lake. It gets cool here to. I'm waiting to get the usual razing from the AK boys now.

Added some info concerning kerosene vs #1.
From Marketing Fuel Tech Service FUELTEK@chevron.com
To "'agitator'"
Subject RE diesel fuel vs. kerosene
Date Wed, 3 Feb 1999 152951 -0800

Thank you for your inquiry. You are quite correct to say K1 kerosene is a different "animal" than Diesel # 2. It is, however, very close to the same fuel as Diesel # 1. I will note some differences later.

The most important thing to remember is that Chevron would never advise anyone to use a product in a piece of equipment if the equipment manufacturer did not also agree that the fuel was correct for use in its equipment.

K1 kerosene is a low-sulfur kerosene that is made for use in space heaters, lamps, etc. - and not for use in vehicles or generators. It is also not taxed so would be illegal to use in "on-road" vehicles.

Some of the differences between the three fuels would be

Viscosity

Four semi-annual surveys for years 1990-1992 showed national averages as such for viscosity (represented in milliPascal-seconds (mPa . s)(=centipoise) cSt)

Diesel # 1 1.33
Kerosene 1.63
Diesel # 2 3.20

Lower lubricity is likely as the viscosity decreases. While this may not cause catastrophic instant damage, it could cause long-term wear of pumps, etc.

Flash Point

Diesel # 1 and Kerosene both have lower flash points than Diesel # 2 and are therefore somewhat more hazardous.

BTU's

Both Kerosene and Diesel # 1 are less dense than Diesel # 2 and will thus have a slight reduction (~3%) in BTU per gallon. This would likely be reflected in lower fuel economy.

I hope you can see why we are hesitant to say there would be no problem with switching fuels for the equipment. Once again, we advise you to confer with the equipment manufacturers.

[ 11-22-2002: Message edited by: Jelisfc ]</p>

[BigLakeDMAX]

No problem, Stillwater - I usually go the the competition - Holiday - they post their fuel blend schedule for the whole winter on the pump.

I've always used PowerService, but based on what I'm reading here - I'll have to look at Primrose. I always thought a little alcohol would help my truck relax and lower its inhibitions.

I just found my front cold weather covers behind the back seat last week - didn't even know they were included with the truck. Don't think my dealer sells many DMAX's. Wonder what else I'll just come across..