Dodge upted the torqe.....Again

[DURA-MAX3]

Just seen a new Dodge commercial and they are claiming 610ft/lb of torqe now. Just enought to beat us again...Dang it.

[ 10-18-2004, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: DURA-MAX3 ]

[More Power]

The '04 Dodge 600 auto we tested this summer during the Pull-Off was outrun on the hill by a 590 LLY. :D

MP

[TJ]

T'was an Auto, right? We all know their auto's suck. It's the 6 speed that smokes us. We don't even have a 6 speed...too bad for GM and their lost profits.

[More Power]

No six-speed?

GM has offered a ZF 6-speed (http://www.thedieselpage.com/duramax/ZFS-650.htm) since the introduction of the Duramax.

ColoradoKid's 2002 LB7 GMC (with a six-speed) produced the best stock time yet for a Duramax on the hill during the 2002 Pull-Off - nine MPH better than the 04 Dodge we ran this year. :D

MP

[4diesels]

TJ, hate to burst your bubble dude but I have two Dodge autos, 120k combined miles of 10k lb+ towing and not a single problem. I can't say the same for either of the Allisons I have owned. My '03 has fluid black as coal and it hardly ever tows. I know it can be fun to throw stones but, at least get the facts right.

[Tractor]

I knew if another brand was brought up, it would hit the fan. What the kid meant was the reliability of GM,s 6 speed is not up to par. That is why when you go to order one, they WILL NOT give you the same options that they give for their allision trany. That way the people that want 6 speeds might consider a auto instead. Will T.J.,s ole man was goin to get a 6 speed with alot of things, so he did what NO ONE that knew him thought he would never do. He went outside and bought a dually CUMMINS. You know that me and T.J. ,know our G.M,s More Power. The 6 speed is not at 590 ftlbs either is it, it is detuned just like Dodge auto was for many years. T.J,s great grampa bought a new 1948 Chevy, we still have it today. He drove Chevys since the begining. We still have a slug of them in our herd. Have been writing The Diesel Page a check for at least 7 years. Not many longer then that Jim. Just renewed a few weeks ago. As a whole dodges auto has been a weak link, tough to prove that other wise. When people stike this pickup and car nut family. They better be loaded for bear. Cause we do take pride in that new Dodge just as much as any GM we own or have ever owned. I,ll take that NV5600 any day over a clutch-flywheel setup of the ZF 6 speed.
Now hope that the Diesel Page doesnt kick me out.
TRACTOR. and T.J. #364 Drivers of the first GMC Duramax in Sheridan,Wyo and Proud of IT.

[Kennedy]

Tractor, I think you are taking this too seriously. 4diesels is just stating facts pure and simple. He's had good luck with his Dodges and is concerned about his Allison. TJ poked the Dodge auto with a sharp stick. While I'll agree that their auto has been plagued with many problems, I know of one 98.5 that went 160k+ towing trailers (empty was with a 53' wedge car trailer behind it) without a hitch till the CUMMINS ate a piston :eek: ...

The Cummins also broke quite a few exhaust manifolds, and a VP pump.

Some of it is luck, and some of it is how it is treated...

Hey, at least the manuals in the Dodge :rolleyes: aren't falling apart due to a nut backing off any more... :rolleyes:

[4diesels]

I am also the guy that got over 200k out of a Ford 4r100, you know the one guys were frying so fast in '99 that they had to wait weeks for a replacement. This is on work trucks too, not personal vehicles, though the '03 Chev is our personal truck. I was never happy with the way my '01 allison behaved, too many downshifts and wouldn't let the diesel run where I think they should, at low rpm. I know that prior to '03 the Dodge autos were poor at best, and sat behind detuned engines because of it. I have been very pleased with the changes on their 48re. The trucks jump into OD early and lock the convertor letting the Cummins work where it should. I am also very leary of my '03 allison. I have a tsb from GM stating that black fluid in the allison is "normal". Can't say I buy that, it goes against several decades of auto transmission experience. I like the Chev but the quality issues I have had dictate that this will be the last one.

Besides that, it is my experience that the Cummins does pull better for my use, and gets much better fuel economy. Maybe next year load the trucks up to max GVW and see what the outcome is. After reading the story it sure seems a little biased towards the GM's. I am pretty sure anybody can get any result they want if they set up the test parameters. I gotta say, I am awfully impressed with the new Dodge trucks, and the '05 Ford as well. Seems GM is back to playing "catch-up" again.

[Kennedy]

The DP Pull off couldn't be more fair. Stick it to the wood and go. Same course, same trailer etc. Trailer was near the max gvw. IIRC.

[rjschoolcraft]

The GVW for the load was 11,920 lb. IIRC. My modded 6.5 ran with the 04 Dodge for a lot less money.

[4diesels]

Get a bigger trailer, keep all of the trucks bone stock. I just pulled a 20k lb load (not including the truck) over two mountain passes in CO last week with a Dodge. I am confident it would have killed my Chevy.

[TJ]

Ok, how about the facts, and nothing but the facts. At our dealership, they replace more Dodge autos than Allisons. The Dodge tech believes the Dodge tranny isn't built heavy enough to withstand the Cummins. To each his own, but I do agree. What I meant is that GM has a very WEAK 6 speed program. It is in FACT true that the 6 speed Duramax's have a lower tow rating than the Allison. And, in FACT true GM has a TSB regarding the flywheel on the 6 speed. And, have you looked at the clutch assembly on the GM's? It is a FACT they are built of plastic components that easily break, especially when trying to drive it when it's cold outside. It is not fair to race an Allison against a 48RFE. You're getting less power out of the Cummins with this than you are with the 6 speed. GM has sold only a small fraction of the amount of 6 speeds as they have sold Allisons. Their clutch/flywheel assembly is not as strong and durable as the NV5600 side of it. If GM had more confidence, they would market it, build it, and sell it. Like I said earlier...their loss.

[hd90rider]

4diesel , why you woriied about the Ally? I have 372k on my 02 Ally with not a minutes problem. This truck is towing Rvs, 70% of the time in all terains & temps. This one tuff tranny

[4diesels]

TJ, you still haven't got it right. The Cummins prior to 2003 was derated with the auto. That is no longer the case. My '03s both have the full dose of 555 lb/ft that the six speed got that year. I am pretty sure the 48RE gets the 600 or 610 rating as well.

Hd90, Why am I worried? It could be that at the trans flush interval, the very first one at 25k miles, that the trans fluid was darker than the motor oil. It was pitch black and burnt smelling. Since the truck up until that point had never hauled more than 5000 lbs, it concerns me. Then my mechanic tried to flush it clean, new filters, extra fluid, still dark. I bring it to the dealer, get GM to pay for another flush 2000 miles later, same result, dark burnt smelling fluid. Then they hand me a tsb stating that burnt fluid in the allison will not affect performance. I dunno, what would you think? The allison in my '01 never shifted right. It wouldn't hold fifth, so why have it? It went through an electronic failure one day forcing a long drive home in third. Glad yours is working, I personally think it is WAY overrated. As soon as I can afford it, this one is GONE.

[TJ]

Hey 4diesel,
I'm not going to make a concrete remark on the torque on the new RFE's, although I will find out. Torque in an automatic is a bit more complicated, regardless. We have a torque converter spinning at high speeds which acts as a torque multiplier. So, some may say you get more torque out of an automatic. I guess it all depends. However, I'm pretty confident a 6 speed Cummins will out tow an automatic. That's what we've typically seen in the past.

[a bear]

4diesel, I've never seen dark burnt smelling fluid in my ally. I pull 12-14K on a regular basis and pull over 20K two seasons out of the year moving cattle. This transmission has taken a royal beating for near 80K miles. You say you're burning clutches pulling 5K. I say either you have a defective pump/pressure regulator or you're just blowing smoke.

[D-max Man]

Not to worry,
The word I get (from a very reliable source) is that the D-Max will be bumped up to 615 ft. lbs. torque in January 2005.

[lookin2buy]

What does all this torque and H.P. do to the Allison, that is only rated at 545lb/ft torque and 375 H.P.? :confused:

Then with that said what does all this power do to the people who want to add "MORE POWER"?

[ 10-19-2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: lookin2buy ]

[4diesels]

a bear, My 2001 D/A never turned the fluid dark either. I dumped it at 97k miles. It towed all the time like you do. I KNOW there is something wrong with this one. Problem is, typical of GM, they claim there is nothing wrong with black fluid in the Allison, they even issued a TSB on it. Since I have that in my hand, and have had GM pay for an additional flush, I must just be blowing smoke buddy. Thats the biggest fault with this site is guys that haven't had a problem insisting that it can't happen and these trucks are perfect. What a joke man. I suppose the injectors aren't an issue either since yours havent failed. I currently have all three brands. I have runn all three hard. You can insist all you want that the GM's are the best but my reality (actual experience, FIRST HAND) suggests that the GM's have more problems than my Ford and Dodges combined. Sorry no smoke here.

[lookin2buy]

Thats the biggest fault with this site is guys that haven't had a problem insisting that it can't happen and these trucks are perfect. What a joke man.4diesels-

I think if you take a real hard look at this site there are people with problems with their GM trucks.
People from all over come to this site to find the answers to their problems, so please don't bash this site. For the vast majority of us it has been very helpful.

Besides, if there wasn't any problems with the trucks..... this site wouldn't exist! :eek:

[Tractor]

D-MAX-MAN
That up in power.Is that in all 5 gears in the alison? Or is that in 2,3,4, while 1 and 5 are still at 520ft lbs. I,d would think that full power in 5th would be something special to sell a truck.
TRACTOR

[motovet]

Originally posted by kennedy:
The DP Pull off couldn't be more fair. Stick it to the wood and go. Same course, same trailer etc. Trailer was near the max gvw. IIRC. :D :D :D