New Post - Dead Duramax-Warranty Fight

[R Hood]

Being new to the forum, maybe I didn't post it correctly but I sure haven't gotten much response to my original post; Dead Duramax.

Assuming maybe I didn't provide enough details the first time.

This is long but maybe it will better explain my situation.

My problem started with no warning, just a muffled knock, lots of smoke out the exhaust and a small river of fuel running out from under the truck after I got to the shoulder and shut it off.

Since I had recieved the injector failure letter, I first checked the oil to see if the crankcase was overfull or smelled of diesel. Negative to both. I checked all other fluids just to be safe. All OK.

After the truck was towed to the local dealer, the initial diagnosis was a leaking injector (blown seal) on the #6 cylinder. They didn't bother looking any deeper while they had the injector out despite what I told them I heard.

At first I was told that GM denied warranty for the injectors due to the existence of a Banks exhaust brake. When I pulled the GM letter out of the truck, all of a sudden it was warranty after all!!

After the new injectors were installed, the engine still smoked and ran rough(DUH!!). Only then did the dealer do a bore scope and found the hole in the #6 piston.

At that point I was told that GM would not touch the engine, no warranty and that if I wanted to find out the extent of the problem I would have authorize($$$) the teardown of the engine. Since I was on the way home from vacation with my family, I didn't feel like I had any choice if we were going to get home anytime soon.

I called GM customer assist and asked that my case be escalated up the corporate ladder as I felt that the dealer and the zone manager (AVM) were the root of the problem.

After several days this was done and the warranty denial become "were reviewing your case." Keep in mind it took almost 4 weeks for all this to happen.

As of today, it has been 4 weeks of nightmare, out of pocket expense and total frustration.

My replacement engine(long block) finally arrived (from Isuzu) last Thursday and is being installed now. It will still be the end of the week before we can leave, provided they don't screw anything up.

Total estimate - so far - $13,820.00. Add to this $3500.00 for the engine core charge if I want to keep the old one as evidence for a LAWSUIT. :confused

If anyone has had a similar warranty hassle, I need to hear about it, the oucome and how you handled it.

I also need to know if anyone knows of a lawyer with experience fighting this kind of case. :(

[Kennedy]

I'd be curious to hear what Banks says about all of this. They are one orf the original users of the "Magnuson Moss" shield.

Sure sound like there was a single injector that went bad causing a single cylinder malfunction. Had the Banks equipment caused the failure, there should be several other pistons showing signs of stress...

[R Hood]

Your asessment is exactly what Banks' response has been.

They contend that the failure would had been "systemic" as you suggest.

They have been very helpful so far. Writing letters to me to forward to GM. They have also been in direct contact with the dealer, attempting to educate the service manager (GOOD LUCK!!) on how these systems work.

You are also correct in assuming the use of Magnuson-Moss as a defense. If there a problem with using this that I should know about and does it get the attention of a manufacturer?

The real issue of cause of the failure has been the most frustrating since GM doesn't want to get anywhere near touching the engine. Any ideas how get them to step up to the plate?

[More Power]

If taken far enough, warranty disputes eventually wind up in arbitration. A third-party arbitration panel is usually staffed by fair-minded individuals. If you can show that the exhaust brake did not contribute to the engine failure, you stand a good chance of prevailing.

Secondarily, options exist for the medium-duty trucks equipped with a Duramax 6600 to get a factory installed exhaust brake - so the engine is perfectly cable of operating with a correctly installed and calibrated exhaust brake.

MP

[mdrag]

R Hood,

Sorry to hear of your broken Dmax. I've been on this forum for over 3 years, and SoCalDmax's injector failure (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007069) is the only one that comes to mind that burned a hole in the piston.

Read More Power's comment on M-M (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=002860), and be prepared to spend mucho money and time arguing your case. The lawyers will be the only ones smiling when it is all over :mad:

[Kennedy]

Was there moreaftermarket equipment on the truck than the Banks brake? Not that it should matter one bit, but that is the issue that they will exploit...

[quadrunner500]

And...I think your Duramax core is worth more than $3500.

I think it's appalling that GM will test your financial resolve, but I'm not surprised after their less than satisfactory response to the whole injector mess. If they didn't have known injector problems, I might feel differently. But they do, and it's very bad policy to blame you for a hole in a piston, that until it comes out of the block to be inspected, even they can't be sure that it wasn't one of their own defects. The exhaust brake just gave them an excuse to be uncooperative.

[R Hood]

Surprise!! Surprise!!

I got a call from the dealer this afternoon informing me that GM has reversed thier position entirely and the engine replacement and all expenses (rental car, lodging, meals, etc) are now covered.

The only reason (excuse) that I could get out of the service manager was that GM engineering needed to get thier hands on the engine for analysis and so was willing to make a "goodwill case" out of this.

Funny thing, it only took 4 weeks for them to make this decision.!!

Thanks for the info, even if it took a new post!?

I will make a follow up post after I get home so that if others have this problem the info will be out there. :D

[quadrunner500]

Well that's great news! Keep us posted!

[motovet]

I hope I don't get the chance to test GM's "goodwill". Great news though.

[Diesel Crat]

For those that want to get lemon law advise in Michigan, I would highly suggest the following attorneys.

http://michiganlemonlawattorneys.com/michigan/

Steven Toth handled a case against Ford and their dealership, Don Seeyle Ford (Kalamazoo, MI) for my wife and I back in 1998. It took 14 months to play itself out but we came out on top thanks to Steve and his team.

I don't much like the business of lawyers and long lawsuits but was left no choice in this case.

Anyway, long and short of it is Ford settled out of court for $12,500 plus we kept the car. We then traded the POS off for $7200 and went to a Chrysler product which has been a pure joy to own. (Need some wood to knock on :D )

No money up front if they feel you have a good case. :cool: You only pay if you win. Steve got $4500 for his services after the settlement was final. Fees based on the complexity of the case of course.

If anyone wants more detail let me know and we can talk offline. Otherwise, call Steve and good luck. :D smile.gif

[fredw]

good to here rhood, have a buddy that went threw the same ****, but not to the point you were at, kida scary, down deep gm usally takes good car of us, hope they keep it up :D , we are all listening, thanks general

[rjwest]

From reading all the Inj and eng fail reports " Under Warrenty" I am now more than ever firmly committed to NEVER buying a new vehicle again...
Part of the price is the manufactures warrenty.
To have to humilate myself , before some
uneducated, young snoot a**. to try to get something
major fixed. NOWAY.

i'll buy used, if it breaks, I now up front, I'm paying. The old 96 6.5l will have to go another
5 years, than , maybe the 2005 dmax will have the bugs worked out.

[Dawg]

R Hood,

Let us know the final result. I ran into one of the Enumclaw guys I refered you to. He asked about you and said they were able to help out by "explaining" some info to the dealership you were stuck at. Let me know how things worked out. If they were able to help you out, it is just another good reason to belong to a forum like this.

Jamie

[R Hood]

At last I got my truck back and was able to return home, 4 weeks late.
As I posted earlier, the good news is that I have a new long block at GM's expense. The bad news is that it didn't come without a fight!

I now have 3,000 miles on the new one and it is obvious tat the old engine had problems from the beginning. This one doesn't smoke at all and is much quieter than the old one.

A special thanks to Jim Moore, Warranty Administrator, Gale Banks Engineering. Jim was extremely helpful in providing technical info that proved the Banks systems didn't cause the problem.

After I appealed my case to a manager at GM Customer Assist, he took the info from Banks to GM engineering and forced them to look into the matter. Up until then the zone manager (AVM) wouldn't allow anyone to touch my failed DMAX to even determine the cause of failure. Two days later the dealer and AVM couldn't to enough for me!!

Bottom line, I have a new engine, full warranty and the worthless dealer (Titus-Will, Olympia,WA)even re-connected all my Banks goodies!!

GM covered the $14,000 engine, rental car for over 4 weeks, lodging, food, etc. I had to fight them every step of the way, however, just to make them honor thier warranty.

If you ever have a similar warranty, I recommend the follwing:

1. If the dealer even raises an eyebrow at your after market goodies have your truck towed to another dealer even if you have to pay for the tow.

2. Don't take no for an answer.

3. If there is an issue with an after market product, get that manufacturer involved.

4. Escalate your case through Customer Assist as high up the ladder as you can.

5. Don't take no for an answer.

6. Have a lawyer handy even if it is just to make phone calls and write letters.

7. Talk to other GM dealers to make sure yours is handling your case properly.

8. DON'T TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER!!!!

Thanks again to Gale Banks Engineering. Not only do thier products work, but they stand behind them too!!

[motovet]

Glad to hear it all worked out. Titus Will IS a worthless dealer....they are close to me, but will never earn my business.

[TanM998]

R Hood,

please e-mail me privately.

Phazer42@yahoo.com

Thanks
Scott

[fishhead]

R Hood,
Glad to hear everything worked out.
I have a 2002...with banks and lots of after market products. Went to arbitration because I have had 3 sets of injectors in 30,000 miles. The GM rep only wanted to focus on my after market products.....but I said it was a smoke screen to a larger problem. Anyway, I won. Different dealerships deal with aftermarket products differently. The dealership that I bought the truck from is great.Now I am getting a 2005.
Marci

[socaltoolguy]

I have just finished reading your whole plight and was wondering what your truck is. Year, model etc. I have a 2001 3500 CC DRW and am interested in putting an exhaust brake on. I have been reading all the posts about exhaust brakes and had just about decided on the BD until reading of your problems. I am impressed with the Banks assistance that you received. I am a little bit concerned with all the negative feedback that I have read about the Banks brake. It seems that there are more unhappy people than happy ones. What are your thoughts? I am happy that all has turned out ok for you. I don't know what I would have done not being able to get home for an additional 4 weeks. I know my pets would have been very hungry.

[R Hood]

I have been very happy with the performance of the entire Banks system even before my warranty troubles.
It sounds like we have identical trucks, I just hope you don't have the same problems with GM.
Keep in mind that this is the only exhaust brake I have ever owned, so I can't compare to anything else.
I do tow a heavy 5th wheel as well.

[hapaschold]

i think manufacturers will try anything not to warranty work, my '02 dmax went down, 2 injectors, didnt run right, then 2 more, wouldnt replace all, six weeks at dealer, no time for all that crap, traded in ...

[HD=HossDiesel]

Nice to see that I'm not the only one with problems! (Not really nice but maybe makes me feel better). 01 CC was in about 2500 miles ago with Loose Injector Seleniod wiring. Which I paid for to the tune of $800. I told them to make sure there wasn't diesel in the oil. Everthing OK they say. Well just changed Oil in Truck this AM and guess what I drained 16-20qts out of a 10qt system! REAL FING NICE. Well so much for on time delivery of a boat to TX because the dealer doesn't know when he can get to it and I get to foot the RENTAL BILL just like last time. THANK YOU GM FOR YOUR LOYAL MIS-TREATMENT of a formerly Loyal Customer and Employee. Sorry to hear about everyone elses issues it really is a shame they don't value the consumer more. I have heard these stories for years and had a hard time believing them. All I can say is this expierience has been a real eye opener. :confused:

[HD=HossDiesel]

OH yeah Truck has 59K miles on it never pulled anyting over 6K and No after market goodies! You can bet the dealer asked me about any possible aftermarket Toys though!!

[DmaxMaverick]

HD

Get your money back on the wire job! They blew that one. If you now have that much fuel in the oil, that was probably your original problem. I don't think I would let them work on the injector problem now. Take it up with the store owner. At this point, nice is optional.

[Kennedy]

I'mnot sure what other dealers think about the satisfaction survey, but my dealer makes it a point to be sure customers are happy and return the survey with good marks...