Another Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge Shootout

[OC_DMAX]

There is another Diesel Truck comparison test at Pickuptruck.com that everyone might be interested in reading. It looks like they will be updating the article on the following three Mondays using different test conditions.

http://www.pickuptruck.com


Have a good one,
Alan

[TBC]

I must say the results were a little different than I expected. It will be interesting to see the rest of the tests.

[afp]

The trucks are all close enough that indivdual differences in each particular rig could change the results.

I think the Ford is just "pushed" to a higher level of it's potential output than the Chevy is. We'll see if a chipped 6.0 Powerstroke can match a Juiced DMax. Logic would say the largest motor--given they are all equal technology--will make the most power.

Blaine

[Maverick]

Ha yo for the Ford boys. Looks like they finally did their homework. Just like Jim Bigley said "thats the plan"....let them play king of the hill for a year and then we stomp them into the ground in 2004. I will be trading up every 3 years so the 01' 3500 will be history.

[NWDmax]

Competition is good and their just setting themselves up for another butt kicking!!

I'm loving every minute of it!

[mowser]

In this article...... it says that the curb weight of the 1 ton Chevy extcab Duramax with the manual 6 speed, only weighs 20 lbs more than a 3/4 ton extcab with the D/A.
My 2002 1 ton extcab D/A weighs closer to 8000 than to 7000 lbs, so if they have the correct weights than the Allison is one heavy son of a gun........ ;)

mowser

[mackin]

Dry weight is => 330 lbs


What I'm looking for is some Torqshift specs......The tranny case is sizably smaller, which means smaller clutch packs, pan looks punny,so what is fluid capacity???? They have an external frame mounted spin on filter......The flow rate of cooler is 5 gallons a min oppose to the Allison's 6......All this matters as we know heat will kill future upgrade ability and mods......

So I ponder and wait to see if I Up or Down grade to a Ford !!!!! tongue.gif


They claim and compare openly to have the same or better characteristics of the Allison transmission,in the Chebby HD.....

MAC :D

[Black Dog]

As has been said, the trucks are all pretty close in performance, and all pretty damn good. It would have been completely laughable if Ford had come out with this completely new motor and tranny, and they had not been able to beat the performance of the 3 year old GM design. This would also have been incentive for the Ford engineers to push the envelope a little more than they may have been comfortable doing on the new engine or tranny.

[chipper]

mowser,
FYI According to Allison the D/Max 1000 tranny weighs 385 lbs.

[Tom Keefe]

As far as the weight goes, I weighed them myself. I was surprised by the weight differences so I weighed them again to be sure that I did not have a wheel off the scale or something.

I could have added weight to the trucks to make them equal but I figured this is the way we buy them. That is the way I tested them.

We already know that the Duramax will have Variable Vane Turbo technology for 2004 so I want to do another test when that truck is available.

Hey, Turbo remember that rainy day on hill in Montana a few years back. I said this is going to be fun. I don't know about you but I am having a blast.

Tom Keefe

[Jelisfc]

Looking at the Ford 6 spd vs auto times (empty) they are pretty close. I wonder if the 6.0 revs higher allowing the 6 spd to get to 80 mph with one less shift than GM?

[More Power]

Hey Tom,

Yes, I do remember that rainy night in late October 1999 when you and Chevrolet brought two prototypes to Montana.

One thing I can still remember you saying is that the heavier the trailer, the bigger the advantage for the Duramax/Allison.

MP

[ 11-19-2002: Message edited by: More Power ]</p>

[Tom Keefe]

Well if we were to check all the weights of the trucks and trailers we would see that the Gross Combined Weight just barely got over 20,000- pounds.

There was a reason for this. We wanted to test all of the trucks with the same trailer and the 12,100-pound trailer with the 7927 Dodge is just over 20,000-pounds. That 20,000-pound GCW is the max for the Ford.

I don't build em I just test em. By the way, I don't hear a bunch of complaints from Duramax drivers about performance. I think I was fair in the evaluation and reported what I did.

Oh and I am having fun and I want to have more fun. Just a few more months.

Tom

[hoot]

"Oh and I am having fun and I want to have more fun. Just a few more months."

Reading into that ...... sounds like it will get interesting.

What's great is GM has a proven combination to work with.

[GMCTRUCK]

The true test of power to me was seeing the difference between the 6 speed trucks. When you consider the Ford and Chevy both use the same ZF gearbox and had the same axle ratio and the Ford weighs a tad more, it appears the Ford has quite a bit more power (as long as all was fair). The Dodge coming in last was not a surprise to me as I personally and easily outran a 2003 HO 6 speed Dodge with my 6 speed. What confuses me is that the difference between the Chevy auto and Chevy manual was huge compared to the difference between the Ford auto and Ford manual. I raced an Allison truck that was otherwise identical to my 6 speed truck and from a stop we stayed neck and neck to at least 60 mph so I am surprised at times they came up with. Especially since at the Dieselpage pull off the stock 6 speed Durmax out towed the stock Allison Duramax trucks. I am not debating the power of the Ford but the Chevy 6 speed they used seems weak.

[Burner]

Did I miss something? I do not recall reading how many miles were on the trucks? If these trucks were all new...eh, it would be a little missleading. I know for a fact that my ol'e 7.3(2001) performance was about the same old as new (27K). The Dodge (1994) was about the same. However, my Duramax (2002) made a "large" improvement around 5k. :rolleyes:

I do believe that "break-in" makes a difference.

Burner

[Kansas Kid]

One thing that really helps out the Ford when comparing the 6-speed to auto times is the fact that it has a VGT. The PSD will build boost quicker off idle and not loose as much between shifts compared to the other engines. That is probably why it compares so closely to the auto in acceleration times.

It will be interesting to see the times for all three manual trucks when they do the hill climbs. I would guess the manuals will be slightly quicker at the end then the autos, but how close to the Dmax will the Cummins be. (the Ford will finish in front as expected)

[Breck]

I can't believe how light weight the Chevy one ton is :confused:

A comparable Dodge is almost 1/2 ton more!

I know, "you just test them" ;)

It would be interesting to find out where the extra weight comes from, engine, frame, box, etc.....

[ 11-20-2002: Message edited by: Breck ]</p>

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I was a little surprised at the results myself.

The real world test is not on a track or with computer monitoring devices for 0-whatever times.

The real test is who is looking at who's tail-lights when you both leave the light.

I have personally not been beat yet, so IMHO, the Duramax is KING, especially with a little "HOT" Juice thrown in from Edge!!! :D

TIME WILL TELL!!!! :eek:

GMC ;)

[sdaver]

HEY GMC-2002-DMAX "DITTO"........ :D DAVE

[ccds]

here is the link to the final part of this test:

http://www.pickuptruck.com/html/stories/2003shootout/part3page1.html

smile.gif

[MNBowTie]

I agree with GMCTruck, Auto/6 speed times don't seem correct for the 15% grade to me:

Chevy auto time:-------33.06
Ford auto time:--------27.11

Chevy 6spd time:-------32.64
Ford 6spd time:--------31.13

The Ford 6spd should have posted a better time than the Ford auto.

[Jelisfc]

I'm not impressed. More so with the way the tests were run than the results.

6 spds - The same driver should have driven all the trucks and a set rpm point to shift at. Way too many variables and the likely hood of shifting too late and hitting the rev limiter thus slower times. If the Dmax is 3200 max shift at 3000. If the Ford is 3800 shift at 3600. I hope they started all the trucks in the same gear.

MNBowtie, Does this make sense? The allison consumes 60 Hp approx. If the Ford trans doesn't require as much Hp then the time difference we see is accurate. If we assume trans Hp required is a very rough measure of it's strength/durability the Ford may pull a hill faster but maybe not as many times (less durable). My point is they won the race but will the trans hold up to the Allison in the long run?

[ 12-04-2002: Message edited by: Jelisfc ]</p>

[Tsckey]

I don't think we need to rationalize or quibble with the results. The Ford is supposed to be making more power. That easily translates into better times, though it seems that one of the time to distance measure actually showed the GM truck spooling up FASTER than the Ford on intitial acceleration. That is surprising. As you juicers know, for example, the General can easily tweak extra horses from the Duramax. The battle has just been joined.

But say we're destined always to be just a bit behind. Would I rush out and buy a Ford? No. Not because I don't like them, but because this truck is a great package. I love it. I'm not racing anybody, I'm just cruising around with a big smile on my face knowing that with or without the best numbers, at this particular time, I've still got the best truck available.

TC

[TooMuchMuscle]

Tsckey,

Well put. I love my truck!!!

[grape]

Now lets compare costs, i wouldn't want the fast one cause it probably costs waaaaay more than the slower ones.

[afp]

I don't agree that we'll always be behind. We have more cubic inches, and we will always be able to make more power at a given modification level.

I still don't think a Juiced DMax will be beat by a 6.0 PSD with the same type of chip.

Blaine

[Burner]

Looking at the times.... From my point of view it seemed that the Dodge and GMC were consistant on power, not the Ford. I know that an in-line 6 will deliver more torque than a v-8 of the same size. I think that that shows in the test. I am wondering why the Ford seemed to loose ground in the end? I would think that with all that "extra" RPM and power that it would really take off in the upper RPM range?

Well, I will say that the Ford "did" win that test. I guess I'll just have'ta wait untill 2005 for my new GMC. :rolleyes:
I wonder what a 6.6 D-Max with CVT and a 3,800 RPM limmit would do? :D :D - No competition ;)


Burner~~~~~~~~