View Full Version : Predator received and installed.
Well I guess I am the first guinea pig of the bunch to install The new programmer, out today by Predator. You might not like my tests but hey it is raining out and I did it at lunch.
Load time was about 7 minutes for a rookie on the initial load because, it has to backup the stock program. I loaded the 60HP version because it is raining, and snow around on the grass. I also modified the speedometer to 110 MPH.
Seat of the pants feels great, on the middle power setting. Everytime I tested it you would be going 80mph before you knew it. I ran a couple of stopwatch runs before and after, without spinning the tires, which is very hard.
First run stock 0 to 60mph 9.6 sec and 1100 degrees on EGT.
Second run stock 0 to 60mph 9.4 sec and 1100 degrees on EGT
Third run middle setting 60HP 8.46 sec and 1200 degrees on EGT
Fourth run middle setting 60HP 8.4 sec and 1200 degrees on EGT.
All runs were floor it easy, from a dead stop and two times I had to abort due to wheel spin while modified. Oh well the best I could do under the raining conditions. I will wait for a dry day to complete further testing at this time. I can say I am extremly happy at this time with the product. The programmer loaded easily and the motor and shifting feel exactly the same. I hope this helps shed a little light on a sore subject.
PS, I cant wait to try the 85HP mode when it is dry.
DURA-MAX3
02-21-2003, 12:14
That sounds good, but i have a question. When they update the program do you have to pay for the updates or can you get them for free...They are supposed to have a speedometer cal and some other goodies coming for it sometime...Thanks...
Ps How much and where did you get it from...
This is what I was told. If the update is part of the standard tune offered at that time, they will reprogram the hand held unit for free. So If the next revision is the tire calibration, and it is a standard option, I would say yes. That is the way I understand it.
Hey Richard, glad you're happy bud!
I just talked to Sam Gluck, and to David Gamble, and both have smiles from ear to ear they say.
Sam tested the 60 initially and stepped up to the 85. He stated the 60 made the truck come alive, and the 85 mode made it a beast. It took approx. 15 to 20 seconds to change his tune to the 85. Sam said the transmission felt great, nice and solid.
David was flying up and down the interstate when he called me ;) He's went straight to the 85 mode, haha! He'll post on here in a lil while but said his EGT's were a lil lower than yours while he was the 85 mode vs. you in the 60, but he also has a 4" exhaust (not sure if you do?). It's also raining here in AL so David has to be careful. I'll let him speak for the product, as he has some boost #'s, and EGT's he can give you all from his view, but he did say the tranny was solid and shifted great.
DURA-MAX3, I will give all customers free updates so long as the option becomes a standard retail option in the newer revisions. The speedo calibration and axle ratio settings will be free. Feel free to browse my website www.RunninWithTheDevil.com, or you may call me, or email me at your convenience.
I hope this helps!
Sincerely...
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
biglouieky
02-21-2003, 12:51
schnier
I live close to you in Villa Hills.Could you send me an e-mail?
thanks
My exhaust is stock, and I run a standard Isapro EGT dial gauge. Thanks James.
Just finished my install as well. Was very easy and painless. Went straight to the 85 horse setting, and all I can say is WOW!!!! I have nothing to compare it to, but it is a whole new truck now. I am guessing that the "delayed" shifting is de-fueling, but the tranny seems to be adjusting fine. Thanks James.
Brent
Not a problem Brent! I'm here to service and support you all. If you need anything please do not hesitate to email me, call me, or whatever. I will take care of you.
Your transmission will have some "learn" time and you will probably notice the shifts firm up overtime. The Allison can be a PITA, but it also can be a real work of art, too!
DURA-MAX3
02-21-2003, 13:39
When will the new version be out that corrects the tire size...Thanks...
I can definately tell you all that the 85hp program wakes it up, but the 90hp juice will definately run circles around the predator, well at least until you hit 98mph.
For a real powershot slap in the 125 hp juice with the predator and hold on tight. Talk about SPILLED JUICE! :eek:
The unit installed in about 8 minutes. Power level was set to 85hp hi performance(is there any need for any other! except to tow)seat of the pants it feels initally like the 90hp juice level 4.......less defueling than the 125 hp juice(but less power)my waste gate is disabled max boost was around 30 psi........top speed has been moved to 125mph setting but with traffic heavy and light rain have not gotten above 90. It seems to perform to me as advertised...max egts with 4" exhaust afe II intake and wastegate disabled were 1100 Degrees.....the real time functions are are awesome.......I know there are several functions yet to come but even with what came initally I would say its definitely worth the money and the wait :D dave
I believe the product speaks for itself, and all the results have been great.
DURA-MAX3, I can't give an exact time frame of when that will become available, but will so in the near future. I promise to keep you all informed of any new information that I receive from DiabloSport.
Sincerely...
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
Sixl,Do you have proof the juice will run away from it or is it just a seat of the pants feeling. Would like you to be more specific if you would please. Maybe you have both, I would like to know more. I know the juice dynos real close to the 90 hp they advertise so I am not saying in any way I don't believe, just want to know what you are baseing it on. :rolleyes:
Not to jump in here but ... :eek: He has both as he STACKED with the Hot Juice if you should visit that thread.......
It has been said the other Power Loader style also doesen't have the total power that the Juice holds,in lower settings....I'm only going on what is written, no hands on, but reliable......
Maybe I will do some real "independent" testing.....I'm a tell you like it is guy no matter if it's "my" money not spent well......I won't just justify it to justify my "cash departure"........
John hurry up and stack them all ready !!!!!!!! I have access to a 4.3 no Timing if necessary.......
MAC :D :D :D
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Yea I see he has the 125 hp version, so does it have a 90 hp setting included? Not real familiar with the hot juice hp levels,or if it even has other levels. Will be nice to see the actual dyno #'s on the predator, But I believe they will be close to what was advertised. I would assume the predator will not be as explosive as the juice seems to be but will just be a more powerful stock type hp curve. Hope that makes sense to you. If the edge stuff didn't require an auto to reprogram I would probably not waited for this predator. (I have a six speed) Also wanted to loose the speed limiter.
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: orange2 ]</p>
GMCTRUCK
02-21-2003, 16:44
Can Predator be stacked with Juice or not? For instance if you use the Predator to dump the factory rev and speed limiter but, leave the stock HP setting can you then plug in the Hot Juice and get 125HP with no speed limiter?
That is what I was looking at doing with the Predator - raising rev limiter, raising speed limiter, changing tire size, using the scan tool capabilities but leaving the stock tune intact and run it with the HOT Juice. If it won't work that way I'll be disapointed.
Welcome to the real world boys.......
That was where I was at till I found out NO stand alone program to raise those options (speed ,rev,tire)(tire size will never happen, I'll bet) without performance tune......EL suck'o....Diablo says it's coming but when ??So I'm waiting for JK to get home and see exactly what can and cannot be done then I'll make my decision, to toy or not .....
The scan tool is interesting but NO PC interface to capture real time parameters kinda isn't cool either...Who's gonna stare at a little screen going down the road at 70 + mph??? Also still not clear on whether or not it is OBD II capable on gassers?? If just Dmax limited would just be another nail in'sta the coffin.....
Where is the real info on this Predator ????
Forth coming I guess when JK gets one to test on a DMAX of his own,first hand info......
MAC :D :D :D
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
I know the power options "marry" a particular vehicle, but can the Predator scan other vehicles?
> That was where I was at till I found out NO
> stand alone program to raise those options
> (speed ,rev,tire)(tire size will never happen,
> I'll bet) without performance tune......EL
> suck'o....Diablo says it's coming but when ??
mackin, it is and will be coming, friend. I can tell you that they have been working on it and in testing on a specific year and calibration have properly adjusted the speedo. Now it's a matter of implementing the option all across the board with all the different years and calibrations. At this time there is no firm date as to when it will be available.
> So I'm waiting for JK to get home and see
> exactly what can and cannot be done then I'll
> make my decision, to toy or not .....
In a nutshell, 3 tunes, 40, 60, and 85, and each tune has the option of raising the speed limiter to 125 on the '02-'03, and 110 on the '01s.
> The scan tool is interesting but NO PC
> interface to capture real time parameters
> kinda isn't cool either...Who's gonna stare at
> a little screen going down the road at 70 +
> mph??? Also still not clear on whether or not
> it is OBD II capable on gassers?? If just Dmax
> limited would just be another nail in'sta the
> coffin.....
The diagnostics on this unit are Duramax Diesel specific.
> Where is the real info on this Predator ????
? Come on mackin, lol ;)
Flyboy, you stated:
> I know the power options "marry" a particular
> vehicle, but can the Predator scan other
> vehicles?
That is correct, you can use the diagnostics on any other '01-'03 Duramax.
Have a good weekend mackin, Flyboy, and everyone else, if I do not see you all again until Monday.
Sincerely...
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: RunninWithTheDevil.com ]</p>
its my understanding that it can scan other dmaxs.........further testing in the rain reveals a delay to shift from third to fourth under full power(85hp setting)(not similar to the juice's defueling more like a delayed shift)the power seems to come on strong in the upper rpm areas. predator midrange compared to the juice at 90hp setting is not as powerful from lower rpms thru midrange. The transmission seems to kick down easier with the predator instead pulling the taller gear like the juice.......This might be caused by more throttle input needed with the predator than with the juice(hence less midrange power availible)to achieve similar performance. The rain is not cooperating in regards to my testing and top speed runs are rather impossible on wet pavement.......maybe it will dry up soon. I have accepted a invitation to come to mobile and dyno my truck with the predator along with my hot juice.......who knows some stacking might be a definite possibilty (unoffically of course)(The stacking is gonna happen if I have to book the second session myself).........mike t my inital purchase was along your thoughts(125mph higher rev limit and hot juice)I think the predator ver 1.02 is a good start but theres still room for some major improvements along with some old promises to keep............All in all I think its a good product and I look forward to all of the new possibilities it brings to the table :D dave
hey mack
if the pred was not vin locked I would fed ex you mine to try.........I still will if you just want to checkout the real time parameters give me a call
[ 02-21-2003: Message edited by: sdaver ]</p>
Why are the 01's limited to 110 and the rest 125mph? My 6 speed wouldn't go 125 anyway but why the difference, any ideas? :confused:
chuntag95
02-21-2003, 21:42
Lower rev limit on the engine maybe?
I decided to retune the truck to the 60 horse setting. the tranny was doing exactly what Sdaver was saying, I thought it was defueling, not hesitating....it seems to have improved greatly with the new setting, but the rain is making it impossible to drive. I thought I was experiencing "fishbite" during the 100 miles I drove, but can't reproduce with the weather this evening. More testing later, but without gauges, I am running "blind"
My truck revs to 3400 now be for the shutoff, I think the overdrive in the auto is taller but I can't believe they would let the newer motors runn that much higher. Any other idea's?
Bush Pilot
02-21-2003, 23:21
My truck is still stock. Little unsure as to which setup to go with. I plan to mostly tow but want to do it in style.What is the highest HP you can safely tow at, and why.
the highest level is limited by egts imposed by the weight your are towing (no mor than 1200 degrees sustained)edge reccomends level 2 normal juice 60 hp without guages. predator is new on the scene today with no tow testing posted yet.....juice does a great job......lots of post on juice related subjects try a search.......pps has great tow reflash for your pcm 600ftlbs from 1800 rpm up flat........they all have issues...search for post by socaldmax he did a great review of all of the current offerings recently :D dave
Bush Pilot
02-22-2003, 00:36
Sdaver,
Not trying to sound stupid but what or who is pps?
SoCalDMAX
02-22-2003, 01:01
These guys.
http://www.pacificp.com/cgi-bin/cat/index.html
They sell the Duramaximizer and TTS powerloader. It also reflashes the ECM. They have a great profile for towing which provides a lot of power low in the rpm range.
Regards, Steve
Maverick
02-22-2003, 04:30
Here is an email from James that I recieved from a friend. It may shed light on a few things.
-------------------------------------------------
For the initial release, the Predator for the Duramax will include these features:
- Performance Tunes
1: 40 rwhp Tow (weight limitations same as factory)
2: 60 rwhp Economy Performance (weight limitation of 8000lbs)
3: 85 rwhp Performance (NO TOWING recommended)
These #'s were achieved on DiabloSport's SuperFlow load cell dynamometer. Each file will take approx. 15 seconds to upload to the vehicle.
- ON/OFF option to increase speed limiter and revs on all tunes. Revs and Speed increase will not be a standard item when you program to a performance tune, but instead gives the end-user the option of turning it ON/OFF. As of right now, the 0 rwhp non-performance tune to allow revs and speed limiter increase will not be incorporated, but may possibly become available later.
- 2001-2003 Duramax Diesel specific diagnostics that includes scan/reset capabilities for fault codes, and live data feed from various vehicle sensors displayed in real time (I will release a list of all of them soon). The real time data is very quick and updates instantaneously (a complete list is further below)
- Tire Size & Speedo Adjustments: The Duramax Predator will eventually be able to adjust for tire sizes and gear changes. On initial release the Predator will not incorporate tire size and gear change correction, but the main thing to remember here is that it is coming in the form of an update.
Any bios revision update that becomes a standard feature for retail will be free to all customers to upgrade their units to.
Here is the link to the Duramax Manual:
http://www.runninwiththedevil.com/files/gmduramaxpredatormanual.pdf
Also, here is a complete list of all the monitored real time data included in the Predator for the Duramax:
Engine Data 1
a. Engine Speed - x rpm
b. Desired Idle Speed - x rpm
c. ETC - X
"The diagnostics on this unit are Duramax Diesel specific."
Again in the beginning it was a handheld scan tool to clear and check fault codes, review parameters on OBD II vehicles, GM specific......
James nothing against ya but, Buddy, every time I gain some more interest, get sucked in to purchase again,forgeting the PRE description and feature packed do it all instrument it was supposed to be, I get p u k e d on .....GHEEESH.....
Hope you see my point, and don't think I'm not just rattling your cage, but WOW shame on Diablo and their EARLY product description release,of what it was to be,to what it is today,and MAYBE what it will be in the far future, for that it appears ,they lose in my book.....
MAC :( :mad: :mad:
[ 02-22-2003: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
Riddle me this,
Why are the 01's limited to 110 m.p.h.
but the 02-03's are limited to 125 m.p.h.?
Could that 'new' front end have THAT much of an aerodynamics effect? :eek:
Maverick
02-22-2003, 13:46
Mic,
Why would you say that? The 01'-02's have the same front. Only the 03' is different.
Sorry I have been out playing I don't have dyno number or track times but the juice is definetly faster it is that big of a diff. I am taking about the 90hp edge, not the125hp that isn't even the same game. I would say that the predator is comparable to theVan Aken box. ;)
sixl which van aaken box have you tried and what were your max egts on the 1/4 with all 3.jess
> the tranny was doing exactly what Sdaver was
> saying, I thought it was defueling, not
> hesitating....
NFLDMAX, the problem it seems you and sdaver are experiencing, and undoubtedely others will too, is related to the pcm being re-programmed. Here is a relearn procedure for the Allison that you may find helpful:
Slowly run up to 5th gear, then drop into 1st gear, let go of the throttle then stop and put in park. Do this 3-4 times in a row.
I've talked to Johan, Operations Coordinator, and Nick, General Sales Manager, tonight, to include a statement in the manual, or some form of addendum insert, so those who experience this situation will know about it in advance.
Please share back with us if this helps, or works for you.
Sincerely...
King D,
the va box I had was one of the first and I don't remember the version :confused:
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