Buying DMax vs BB Gasser payoff time

[TraceF]

Check my numbers-

36,000 miles at 10 mpg (my 2000 454 BB) X $1.55 average per gallon last year premium gas = $5580 fuel expense.

36,000 miles at 17 mpg (My DMax average) X $1.48 average per gallon [diesel is usually about mid-grade price or a penny more in FL] = $3134 fuel expense.

The DMax/Alli costs what, a $5000 premium at least?

With the added maintenance unless you tow a lot (over 15% or so) it's barely a break even proposition over 3 years in my mind.

Anyone agree with this analysis? What am I missing besides the KOOL?


BTW- I like the KOOL! smile.gif

[Toddster]

Trace Buddie, there are some things in life that just don't need to be explained logicly ! I tow my snowmobile and or Harley a few times per year @ about 800 pounds...How do I justify my Dmax ? Hows this, today I bolted on a 230hp Van Aaken box...It was more fun than most sex I have had in my 34 years ! And trust me, I have hd my share of WILD women ! LOL ! (Always wear a helmet) ;) So pal, you have answered your own question, it's the Kool Factor ! :cool: P.S. Your ANALysis sucks ! LOL !

[mdrag]

TraceF,

Why factor in the cost of the Allison for this comparison? If you buy the 8.1L - you don't get the Allison for free.

The only extra maintenance related solely to the Dmax is more frequent fuel filter changes (and additive if you decide to use it) - and these filters are about $17 each if you shop around.

I personally don't perform extra maintenance on the tranny, air filter, oil/oil filter, differential etc JUST BECAUSE OF THE DMAX - I treat my gassers the same way.

Don't forget that the diesel should be worth more when it comes time to trade/sell.

[MadDuraMax]

This has been debated quite a bit here. But notably is the resale factor. Plugging the numbers into Edmunds for a 2001, 2500HD, 36,000 miles each with the only difference being the 6.6 -vs- the 8.1 shows about a $2,000 premium for the 6.6 at private party resale. This jumps to about $2,800 premium for a "ceritfied" used vehicle.

Only time will tell the long term resale premium for the Duramax. I won't be worrying about it, I plan on keeping my truck for years and years and years..... :D

Mark

[Toddster]

P.P.S. Try adding 230rwhp to a big block gasser for under $1500 bucks ! Not happinin' Dude ! :cool:

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: Toddster ]</p>

[TraceF]

Todd- you make me laugh more than I do myself sometimes and that's saying something. Lend me the juice man. Or are you running both?


mgrag- &lt;&lt;Why factor in the cost of the Allison for this comparison? If you buy the 8.1L - you don't get the Allison for free.&gt;&gt; You lost me on this my man. I don't get it.

Whaddya mean no more maint cost-???- twice the oil, triple the cost of the filter, 50% more rear diff fluid with required changes at half the interval of the GM 14 bolt I had, it adds up!

As for resale- I guess this is a good thing, not long ago it was the other way around.

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>

[mdrag]

TraceG,

"Whaddya mean no more maint cost-???- twice the oil, triple the cost of the filter, 50% more rear diff fluid with required changes at half the interval of the GM 14 bolt I had, it adds up!"

I have two gas vehicles that require 8 to 10 qts of oil. Just because your truck has the diesel option does not mean you get a different rear differential - same capacity as the 8.1L 2500HD/3500.

Triple the cost of WHICH filter?? I paid less than $7.00 each for Baldwin oil filters, and about $17 for the fuel filter. Others have posted buying the AC Delco PF2232 oil filter for about $9 each...


mdrag

[ 02-14-2003: Message edited by: mdrag ]</p>

[TraceF]

My comparison was to my 2000 454 BB.

6 1/2 quarts Mobil 5w30 at $1.09.
AC Delco oil filter $2.59 sometimes 2/$5 at Discount Auto.
14 bolt rear diff holds less than 3 quarts of fluid. Never change except severe service then at 50K. I did mine at 1500 and then 30k.

My DMax.

10 quarts Delvac 1300 at $1.50 ($6 gallon). Filter $6.79 at the dealer.
Rear diff fluid, Allison spin on, etc. etc. etc. As I said it all adds up.

You are comparing the different vehicle mdrag.

I'll run those numbers another time with you-

The wife is ready to go to dinner.

Happy St Valentine's everyone.

[mdrag]

Oh!! I thought you were comparing LIKE vehicles such as an '01 - '03 8.1L 2500HD/3500 and a Dmax equipped 2500HD/3500...

I wasn't aware the D/A option was available in 2000 :eek: ...since you were trying to compare the 454 to the Dmax :confused:

Why not compare apples to apples for meaningful input??

mdrag

[huntindog]

TraceF,
[Whaddya mean no more maint cost-???- twice the oil, triple the cost of the filter, 50% more rear diff fluid with required changes at half the interval of the GM 14 bolt I had, it adds up!]

What page in the manuel does it state you have to change the diff fluid?
Maybe the 2003s are different, but on the 2001s it is not required (probably a good idea as on ANY vehicle,but still not required)
The rest of your assumptions are correct(although if you're really paying those prices, you should shop a little harder) except you are leaving out maint. items on the gas motors. What about spark plugs,wires, PCVs etc?
The good diesels have always returned more on resale. (the 6.5 doesn't quailfy)
Not only will the price be higher, the diesel will sell easier.
Nobody wants a gas motored truck with 125000 miles on it.
A diesel with the same milage is looked at as just broke in.

[TraceF]

mdrag-

Perhaps a better name for the forum would have included "Buying DMax vs {MY LAST} BB Gasser payoff time".

Seems like the comparison was clear in my first post.

&lt;&lt;Why not compare apples to apples for meaningful input??&gt;&gt; Because I'm talking about what I spent and what I will spend. It's my money and I am comparing the cost of the 2000 truck to the 2003.

huntindog- As I said in other forums, I bought the truck at an auction with 14 miles on it and got no manual (I have ordered one) but the dealer told me the new rear axles have a 25k change interval !?!

My Vortec has plat plugs supposedly good for 100k.

[ 02-15-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>

[sdaver]

hey toddster,
hows the tranny like the vanaken?......... :D dave

[mdrag]

TraceF,

No.

mdrag

[Toddster]

Daver, It's like racing at Rockingham, you gotta rooooollllll into the throttle ! ;)

[Wheat Whacker]

Seems to me the last BB 454 I owned required a set of plug wires every year if it was used for towing and have never found a set of plugs to last a 100,000 miles when used for towing in my wifes car yes in my 454 no.

[Bush Pilot]

Toddster

I have and 03 silverado D/A but have not added anything yet. I was looking at the Van Aaken chip and was wondering what your thoughts were on it. Easy to install? Any quirks? How does it compare to the Juice?

[huntindog]

TraceF,
[As I said in other forums, I bought the truck at an auction with 14 miles on it and got no manual (I have ordered one) but the dealer told me the new rear axles have a 25k change interval !?!]

So by your own admission you actually are completely unknowledgable as to what the maintenence schedule actually is????
All you can say is heresay about it from Stealers or other unnamed sources???

When you get your manuel, then make the comparison. I,m not saying that your assumptions will be totally wrong, but at that point you will have actual knowledge to work with.

As for some of your math, others have already stated that figuring the allison into it is not justified..... unless you're also going to factor in somehow the longer life it should have.(the same goes for the motor,100,000 warranty vs. 36,000)
That puts the DMAX premium at 3-4 K depending on the deal you got. At 2-2.8 K resale, the final cost is a max of 1200-2000.
That leaves you at LEAST 446 to the good.
Probably enough to pay some for some of those overpriced items you previously mentioned!!

That means you actually got the KOOL for free!!

BTW You can't put a price on KOOL!!!!!!

[Kennedy]

Throw all the upcharge numbers out the window and start over. All you are concerned about here is the amount of DEPRECIATION of the Duramax vs. the depreciation of the gasser.

Kinda goes to resale value...

In other words (pulling numbers from the sky):

Buy Dmax for $40k and trade in 3 yrs for same vehicle for $8k to boot. Buy gasser for $35k and trade in 3yrs for $8k to boot. All of the savings on fuel go to the plus column, not factoring any maintenance costs.

Or,

Buy a Dmax for $40k and trade for 6k to boot due to the supply/demand/strong resale value. Buy a 8.1 for $35k and trade for $8k to boot due to lesser resale due to economic reasons (price of gas) and...

[TraceF]

That's what I'm looking for JK. Rationale. To tell you the truth I have had a bit of buyers remorse over my purchase. The truck doesn't tow like I expected although I am buying in to the longer break-in period and the transmission and engine systems "learn" abilities. It does seem to be slowly improving on mileage.

Overall I like it and I expect that when I go ahead and bite on the chip I will be more satisfied.

And then there's the KOOL. :D


huntindog- Actually, although I DID say Duramax/Alli I used $5000 for the upcharge example. On my 2003 the msrp on the DMax is $5010, the Allison gets another $2295 so (despite any other flaws) for the purposes of the equation the Alli wasn't figured in.

Also, it doesn't seem completely unreasonable to take info from a dealer although it is true, they have been known to be wrong.

[ 02-17-2003: Message edited by: TraceF ]</p>

[huntindog]

TraceF
Actually the Duramax comes with the Allison, so the 2295 should be subtracted from the 5010, leaving the true cost of the DMAX at 2715!!!
This is starting to look like a bargin!
Your figures show a 2446 fuel savings over 3 years, so you are in the red for 269 + any additional maint. ( which I feel is negligible)
Now the payoff, In 3 years will the Dmax command 269 more at resale?
In this case it looks like it pays to be KOOL!!!

[TraceF]

Beg to differ here. The DMax $5010 and Allison $2295 are seperate options charges. Go here and you can spec one out:

http://www.gmbuypower.com/app/gmbp/index.html

Yes, I believe the DMax will have higher resale.

[Kennedy]

Yes, the Allison is an option. Mine was partially discounted as I got th LT package...

Trace F,

I'll pretty much guarrantee you the Dmax wil out tow the 8.1 hands down. I don't buy into the long break in thing myself. While it is true that in time they will "loosen up" they are run at rated power for I believe 10 minutes in the test cells at Dmax Ltd.

That said, apart from letting the ring/pinion break in gently for 100 miles or so, I say drop the oil in the engine/diff, and TOW SOMETHING HEAVY for a couple/few hundred miles and drop the engine oil again!

[Jelisfc]

I agree with JK. Other than my ZF needing 500 miles to work itself in my truck's performance and mileage hasn't changed in its 8000 mile life. I don't expect any gains as the miles add up.

My 6.2 had 130K on it when I sold it. Fuel, oil, and two or three fuel filter changes is all it ever cost me...and a pump at 100K but that's actually doing good on an '82. If I can get the same from my Dmax (less the pump) I'll be ahead of the game. smile.gif

[FightinTXag]

The 8.1L costs about $1000, too. So the Dmax costs about $4k over the 8.1L. Of course, if you wanted to get down to it you could add the interest charges on the extra financed amount. Unless you got 0% or paid cash, and so on, and so on.

My spreadsheet says fuel difference will pay for the Dmax option in 67,000 mi versus the 8100. It'll take over 200,000 when comparing the 6L due to the Allison cost and the (slightly) better mileage of the 6L. Does this make me more or less happy with my truck? No. Truth be known, I could probably get by with a 4.3L V6 truck. I had one a year ago with 120,000+. So I guess maximum economy isn't the whole deal for me.

Neither is power. If the 8.1L can run circles around my truck, I don't care. If the new PSD's and CTD's can run circles around my truck, I don't care. If the juicers can run circles around my truck, I don't care. If the 2004's get a variable turbo and 350+ hp, I don't care. I love MY truck and all I want to do is drive it.

[ 02-17-2003: Message edited by: FightinTXag ]</p>

[huntindog]

TraceF.
Danged if you're not right!
I didn't remember it that way on my truck, but the General sure is greedy!!
I guess KOOL does cost a little!!!

[a64pilot]

TraceF,
Your right, period. Diesels are not for everyone. Thankfully there is an option for people that do not need or want one.
Seriously, if you don't do much driving or pulling you would probably come out cheaper with a gas rig.

[GMC-2002-Dmax]

I'll weigh in on this one,

I have owned gassers for 17 years in my trade. I always had great luck with them and always got 9-12 mpg. Less loaded.

I bought the Duramax over the 6.0 and 8.1. The 6.0 was considered only GMC and Chevy would not allow 3:73 gears. I really wanted the Allison so the 8100 V8 was considered just for sticker price factor, either way the Allison was in the truck.

When I looked at avg. yearly miles driven, for me 20K 1st year. The answer was easy. Fuel was 20% or so cheaper and I was expecting a 40% greater avg mpg.

Now I have not sat down and Micro Managed the fuel costs for the year but I will tell you that on avg. even with higher diesel fuel costs and lower mpg due to winter blend I have saved approximately $1400-$1500 in my first year on fuel.

Now considering that the option was bought at GMS Discount in less than 3 years it will pay for itself.

Plus I got the "KOOL FACTOR" of the duramax. I put 125hp more on her for 5 minutes and under $900.00.

If you can do all that with a gasser prove it too me.

As JK and others have said, when you drive it even with high miles at trade in the investment always comes back to you!!!

GMC

[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: GMC-2002-Dmax ]</p>

[TraceF]

a64pilot-

You actually made my point clearer than I did. I tend to look at things from an economic return viewpoint.

That's not to say I won't buy some kool but for me it looks like 3 years to be even on the truck buy.

Looks like GMC-2002-DMAX 's will pay off quicker.