View Full Version : REAL LIFE USE!!
Vette Racer
05-05-2002, 21:34
Guys
Racing is great and this truck is a rocket but what most of us here want to know is, what does all this add on stuff do for towing and reliability??? Fast is great, but most are pulling heavy loads like 5th wheels in the 15k range and want to know if these add on products will help our trucks or not without adding special gauges or monitoring EGT'S. What can you tell us????
stillracing
05-05-2002, 21:54
Whether you are racing or towing, the motor is stressed and reachs the limit of the motor sooner. It's best to monitor EGT's with guages so you can watch whats happening real time.
Upgrades like 4" exhaust and high flow air filters can lower EGT's allowing us to add mopower!!!
See Mackin's post on the chip he has installed, I want to have that kind of fun. Plus, I tow alot and could use mopower.
Vette Racer
05-05-2002, 22:13
The factory doesn't include gauges. We who tow with this truck would like to add to its capability without worrying about whether we are out of line with its capabilities or not without looking at gauges or adding them. With that said, can we add anything or not without adding gauges.
Can this be said any simpler??? Inquring minds want to know???
I agree most of us bought these trucks to do work and fortunately Edge understood that when they designed the Juice. It has 4 power levels and Edge recommends towing only in the lower 2 levels. The increased torque is very apparent even in the lower power levels.
While I haven't towed with the Juice there has been at least one report of improved Allison performance. The tow vehicle was said to hold 5th gear longer implying the truck was more likely to grunt up hills in a lower RPM.
As we probably all know, Edge has been designing performance upgrades for the CTD and it's fragile auto tranny so they've learned from the school of hard knocks. As far as the Juice design goes, it reduces power during tranny shifts, when the torque converter isn't locked, and when the engine is cold.
They highly recommend EGT/boost gauges while using the Juice.
Can this be simpler?
Adding a couple of gauges isn't complicated. There may be situations where knowing your exhaust gas temperature during a long hard pull is beneficial.
Alli-max
05-06-2002, 07:18
Vette Racer... I see your point... :D :D
About the only thing you can do safely is add something that wont void your warranty. Drop-in Filter or FIPK kit, and of course a 4" turbo back exhaust.
The chips can void your warranty, as you already know, because of the issues they saometimes have. NOW... it is NOT legal for GM to void your warranty by you just HAVING the chip, per the magnum-moss act. They have to prove the chip CAUSED the problem. So, no problems, no voided warranty. But it is still a good idea to take it out if you goto the dealereship ;)
But your point you were trying to make is simple: "I dont want to spend money on guages since they are expensive and dont show me improvements". Me too brutha!! Tought to spend the cash on those mods when there is SOOO much other stuff to add!!!!
Actually, a boost guage would be a nice addition, as if can HELP improve fuel mileage. If you follow it and keep your boost down, your numbers will rise. Maybe this will help you go out and get those guages..
01_Duramax_Dually
05-06-2002, 08:28
VetteRacer,
I am a drag racer. I had not planned on any modifications honestly as this truck flat hauls butt. I did add the boost and EGT gauges however since I lean on this truck a lot towing through the desert. I just wanted to know how the motor is doing.
4" Exhaust, Edge modules and all the other upgrades seem fine, I just have not found a need yet but then again I am not trying to prove anything to anybody by going any faster. I mean I routinely tow at 80+ MPH with an 11K trailer....If I had a box...HOLY COW...My wife would flat freak out knowing I could go faster... :D :D :D
Like most of the "silent majority", I think Vette Racer wants to know what, if any, mods will give us the most bang for the buck in terms of operating costs, reliability, and driveability.
Forget gauges for the moment, has anybody put on a exhaust kit and done before and after MPG data runs while towing? How about the Allision downshift problem, how has an exhaust kit effected that while towing?
The same questions apply to "boxes". Is there anybody out there who has put one on and NOT RACED it to death yet?
Increasing age and decreasing income tend to modify ones behavior patterns. I no longer care to race people to the top of the hill. My goals are to never be broke down on the side of the road, pass more fuel stops than anyone else, and stop that stupid transmission from downshifting before the engine gets to max torque output.
So how about it? Anyone out there stoped racing long enough to get some good economy and driveability data?
No hard data but....
I noticed that by adding just a little more power, in my case, propane, you will hold the higher gears. That, I believe is the only missing ingredient in the stock Dmax. Just a little more power. Some have said WOW to the stock truck but as we have all read, there are a few disappointments in the 5th gear highway downshift.
For you old guys ;) , you really don't need much. I don't believe exhaust and a performance air cleaner is enough to cure the downshift but then some of these guys insist on running 70+ mph.
It looks like the latest performance boxes coming out are starting to address towing performance. If you want easy towing performance, go with a box that's easy to install and remove and has a design geared towards towing.
Sometimes reading all this stuff makes you think you need it but you have to get out there and see how you like stock first.
To answer the question before us, gauges are not necessary in a stock truck, but I happen to think they are useful and fun to watch. What better reason does a person need to add something to his truck that adds a little extra to the joy of driving a great truck.
If you add performance items to your truck, then I think gauges become necessary, just for keeping an eye on your very expensive investment. Insurance is not necessary either, but a lot of people buy it.
If you think that because I put an Edge Products "Juice" box in my truck it turned me into a sixteen year old pimple faced kid with a heavy throttle foot your wrong.Don't get me wrong I do enjoy gassing it from time to time but I cannot afford to take my beautiful truck out and beat the crap out of it.And why would I want to anyway?
When I first installed the Juice, I went out and did some "acceleration testing".Got tired of that real quick.The real fun in having this "box" is every day driving.I felt that the DMax in stock form was a little sluggish and the tranmissions down shifting when under moderate aceleration is also uncalled for.With the Juice I have more low end power when I need it and on the expressway the tranny doesn't downshift or search like it used to when I want to pass another car.I honestly believe that towing capability of the truck will be greatly improved.I've pulled my friend's 12,000lb boat/trailer and I really liked it;more torque for deadstop pulling and the transmission didn't search around when gassing it on the interstate.As far as fuel mileage is concerned I didn't see any difference from running in stock form.Edge Products Inc. claims that if you drive moderatly you may see a 1mpg.
increase.And yes it does remind me of when I was a kid with a '69 Z/28 ;) ;) I love it!
Dennis
Real life use.... Guages are a critical tell all IMHO........ Whether stock or enhanced. Worth every penny........In the real world show me an over the road tractor trailer TOWING mo-chine without an EGT guages ........ The big three will not put them in for the added expense, I'll tell you what if their listening soon it will be an option, must want them ......... The JUICE box in all seriousness, is a terrific enhancement, solely for drivability, if you would like it to be .? It's all in your control of your right foot ......... You really don't know it's there so to speak, till you want it ........ I can,all tho it is hard to drive normal, as I should ....... Sometimes I got my mother in-law with me if you know what I mean ............. I think you, not me might see an increase in MPG.This truck (mine) gets into top gear with the torque locked and stays there, indeed, very quickly ........ Lower revs, min. boost, taller gear ratio, all you want in fuel economy.........Towing will give you the same results I'm sure ...... It's not always a race to the top of the hill, but it sure is a way to get the blood flowing ,besides, well you know ,this is a family site....... It's up to your thought's, and control of your right foot ..... My truck forgot HOW to downshift while accelerating, that is by far the best enhancement and bang for your buck beside guages ....... I'm sure just like you keep an eye on the guage's the GENERAL gave you, you will not be sorry for your purchase and install, I feel they are necessary guage's ,boost and egt ........ Exhaust, not really a seat of your pants improvment,to me it is more of a power of suggestion thing.... Air inlet mod is a must........There you will see a seat off the pants difference .......... If you like it stock, Hell nothing wrong with that too...... One disclosure, I do not care if you drive a YUGO or a Most powerful D-MAX, if you take it out and beat the crap out of it day in and day out, something's going to break or wear out quicker then it supposed to...Moderation is the key, no matter what you do......
MAC :D :D
[ 05-06-2002: Message edited by: mackin ]</p>
AlaskaDmax
05-06-2002, 16:58
Mental note...find glasses...I thought I just read Mackin talkin about "moderation".
sonofagun
05-06-2002, 18:33
Heat kills, before you spend a lot of money, and expecially if you tow stuff, get an EGT gauge.
Mackin and moderation could be a oxymoron?? :rolleyes:
Bob
slapshot44
05-06-2002, 19:38
Let me play Devil's advocate on a couple of scenarios:
Dilemma one: Say you install a chip and gauges. Then you have some problems, and take the truck in for service. Is it ethical to remove the chip before taking it in, since it is quite possible that the chip is indeed causing the problem. In this case, you actually caused the problem and want somebody else to pay for it. After taking the truck in, the savvy mechanic sees the gauges and asks, why do you have gauges unless you put a chip in? Warranty service denied. Even though they can't legally deny you warranty service without proving that an aftermarket device caused the problem, they can make you go through the motions of complaining, initiating a lawsuit, etc. All of this takes time and money, and these are definitely on their side.
Dilemma 2: You install a chip (with or without gauges.) Then you have some problems, and take the truck in for service, but don't remove the chip. The savvy mechanic sees the chip and says that there is your problem. Warranty service denied. See rest of Dilemma 1 again.
Dilemma 3: You put gauges on your truck, but no chip. You have some problems, and take the truck in for service. After taking the truck in, the savvy mechanic sees the gauges and asks, why do you have gauges unless you put a chip in? Warranty service denied. See rest of Dilemma 1 again.
Dilemma 4: You wait until your warranty expires and then install some combination of chip and/or gauges. You have some problems and take the truck in for service. It costs you a fortune to fix your truck, but you don't have to hassle with those warranty issues.
To heck with all of these Dilemmas. I think I just talked myself out of installing a chip or gauges at this time, even though I really desire both modifications. Here's an idea: if an aftermarket chip causes damage to your truck, why doesn't the chip manufacturer pay to fix it?
Dilemma one: Say you install a chip and gauges. Then you have some problems, and take the truck in for service. Is it ethical to remove the chip before taking it in, since it is quite possible that the chip is indeed causing the problem. In this case, you actually caused the problem and want somebody else to pay for it. After taking the truck in, the savvy mechanic sees the gauges and asks, why do you have gauges unless you put a chip in? Warranty service denied. Even though they can't legally deny you warranty service without proving that an aftermarket device caused the problem, they can make you go through the motions of complaining, initiating a lawsuit, etc. All of this takes time and money, and these are definitely on their side.
Answer..........YES, What box, What ta hell are you talking about? HUH ? I have guages because I tow and what's the problem.Where does it state I cannot install guages? Fix the truck..............
Dilemma 2: You install a chip (with or without gauges.) Then you have some problems, and take the truck in for service, but don't remove the chip. The savvy mechanic sees the chip and says that there is your problem. Warranty service denied. See rest of Dilemma 1 again.
Answer................You would not be to smart if you did that...Don't ya think......
Dilemma 3: You put gauges on your truck, but no chip. You have some problems, and take the truck in for service. After taking the truck in, the savvy mechanic sees the gauges and asks, why do you have gauges unless you put a chip in? Warranty service denied. See rest of Dilemma 1 again.
Answer....See Dilemma one...............
Dilemma 4: You wait until your warranty expires and then install some combination of chip and/or gauges. You have some problems and take the truck in for service. It costs you a fortune to fix your truck, but you don't have to hassle with those warranty issues.
Answer............. 5 years ..What are you nuts............See Dilemma one
To heck with all of these Dilemmas. I think I just talked myself out of installing a chip or gauges at this time, even though I really desire both modifications. Here's an idea: if an aftermarket chip causes damage to your truck, why doesn't the chip manufacturer pay to fix it?
Answer......Two part'er.........soot yourself, I did like having the only HEAVY around while it lasted LOL ..................What are you nuts...........Aftermarket producer fix your truck...............Refer to Dilemma one.......
MAC
:D :D
Your going to get WART'S.............. tongue.gif
Southard
05-06-2002, 20:16
If you modify your vehicle to produce more power, that is perfectly fine. I have done it many times. I even swapped a smallblock Chevy into a 280Z Datsun. It runs great, but I would never ever expect Datsun to warrant it when it breaks. If you modify it, then why should the manufacturer pay for your mistakes? They design their products to be durable at stock power levels and warrant them at those power levels. If you play, you should pay.
slapshot44
05-06-2002, 20:31
OK mac, you busted on me. I'll 'fess up. The real reason I am not getting a chip at this time is the managing partner (AKA WIFE). She thinks the $40k truck she just bought me is just fine like it is. Hard to convince her otherwise when we're passing people up grades with a 3500+ lb. camper on the back and a boat hanging on the rear!
Besides, she says if I want to go faster I should get that GTO that's spread out along the side-yard of the house put back together...
Vette Racer
05-07-2002, 10:42
OK Guys, since I started this, let me say first that I apologize for not being more clear in my comments. My intent was to find out if anyone had checked their EGT'S before and after while towing along with any other good or bad things while using the boxes and towing. I have nothing against gauges except that I don't have any yet. I also have nothing against extra power and enjoy using it myself. That's why I want all the info I can get on these things.
MACKIN, keep up the good work! I enjoy every one of your posts. In fact I've rolled in the floor over some of them.
Thanks for all the input. I believe it definitely livened up the board, good or bad!
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