clatter, puffs and plumes

[whitesnake01]

I am new here. I have an 05 LLY with 17K on it. And and it is not working as well as I would have hoped. Extended Cab 2500HD long bed 4x4.

I just came back to NH from a camping trip to Florida. This was supposed to me my first light tow trip with this new truck. Light as in the east coast does not have much of hills or anything. I tow an 8,300lbs camping trailer with it. I am planning more tough towing in the future, so I was looking for this lighter trip as a way to shake out the little things that might be wrong.

On the way down I had intermittent engine knocking, as if the engine was working hard, yet I was only coasting mostly flat interstates at 60-65mph. Engine temp at 205 and tranny never went above 190. Most of the time the tranny would sit at 170.

On the way home (~1400 miles), it hesitated three times. Hesitate as in loud clatter when a gas engine misfires. And it then goes back as if it has never happened. The clatter would last for a few seconds until I was able to disengage the cruise or gas pedal. It intermittently blew black smoke, lots of it. On the last hesitation, it was blowing black smoke on a light hill on 495 around Boston, and then blew out two very large white clouds as it clattered loudly.

Its stock. This is my first diesel. All this happened in tow mode in low to mid 90s. Not the same tank of fuel.

Its at the dealer now. They can't find anything wrong with it. It threw no codes. They have done test drives, none under any load. All my problems have been under load.

I suspect the dealer is going to hand it back to me at the end of the day today, closing the issues as non-reproducible. In the back of my head I know this is going to come back again when I tow and it bothers me that the truck does not give me the warm and fuzzy feel I was hoping I'd get. Any ideas of what might be wrong?

Thanks for any input or pointers!

[whitesnake01]

After insisting they call tech support, their current diagnosis is that it has debris and water in the fuel system. They have pulled out some samples. This is what you get for fueling up along the interstate at places you do not know.. It is possible they might make me pay for a complete flush.

I would assume debris is bad but that it should get caught in the filter and hence not lead to any immediate operational problems. I speculate the debris did not cause rough running unless the filter was clogged. Since it was intermittently able to feed the engine quite well I have to assume the filter is still flowing well, but should still be changed.

So I am guessing the problem is that water is making its way into the engine, which is bad, and might also explain the intermittent symptoms since the tank would be shaking around a lot. But I am wondering why this amount of water did not trigger the water in fuel signal yet caused the engine to run this rough. I am also wondering why the engine did not throw any codes as a result of it.

They are now holding the truck for a 3rd day. I'll post more info when I have it.

[whitesnake01]

Incidentally, how do you out there deal with the issue of bad fuel? I've never had such problems with any of the gassers I've owned.

What I have done is to try to only use large truck stops, but this is not always possible. If you fuel up a lot away from home, it would seem inevitable you are going to end up with dirt, water and slime in the system at some point. Good filters can block a lot of dirt from entering into the engine. But what about the gunk that is in your tank? Do you pump it out on a regular basis? As for water, how do you deal with it? Do you use a demulsifier all the time?

[mcmonroe]

When I am out on the interstate I try to use truck stops that sell massive amounts of diesel fuel. Big places like Petro or Flying J are good examples.

You absolutely have to avoid those little places at small exits as their fuel could be very old since there are not a lot of trucks buying fuel there.

How often are you changing your fuel filter? I assume that you have changed it at least once or more with 17k on the truck. You cant neglect fuel filter changes on diesel vehicles like you can on a gas vehicle.

If you were at 17k and have never changed your fuel filter that could be part of the problem.

Random thoughts...

Mark

[whitesnake01]

Changed the first one at 10.5K. My assumption is that the filter would clog up rather than decompose, resulting in sub-optimal fuel pressure when you open up the throttle. I did not notice a degradation of performance or reduced fuel mileage.

I just reviewed my journal and can see that the smoke and hesitations started some 200 miles after filling up at a small Hess station in Fredricksburg, VA. I would have been at about 1/2 tank when it happened.

Do any of you attempt to fill first in a clear bottle, such as 1/2 gal, so see what the fuel looks like, before going ahead and putting it into the tank?

[whitesnake01]

Here is the latest. There is some amount of water and dirt in the system. The dealership wanted to flush the entire system for $500 to get it out, but would support me if I decide to get it out by other means. There is not enough water in the filter to engage the WIF indicator. They did not think there was any damage to injectors, etc.

My question is this: should I first try to put a demulsifier into the fuel and burn it out, while also trying to purge out any water that gets trapped in the filter? What would you recommend?

Thanks,

[jbplock]

How did the dealer determine that there is water and dirt in the system?

Fuel additives with either demulsifiers or emulsifiers are only intended to handle very small amounts of water (drops). To remove large amounts of water you have to drop, drain & flush the tank. One other possibility is to use some Power service 911 to absorb the water but it contains alcohol.

[Kennedy]

It's up to you how you proceed, but it wouldn't be too hard to draw the fuel out of the tank via a siphon or pump through the filler. You could then add fresh clean fuel and a bottle of FPPF Fuel Power. This one bottle will take out 8oz of water and I doubt there's more than that in ther, especially if you can park the truck on a decline and get the hose to the end of the tank...


I typically drain my filters (when changing) into a Pyrex measuring cup to analyze any potential debris or contaminants.

I just added a 91 gallon transfer tank for long trips. This allows me to choose carefully where I fuel and gets me tremendous range so that I may get back to hometown fuel in most cases.

[jbplock]

Originally posted by kennedy:
... a bottle of FPPF Fuel Power. This one bottle will take out 8oz of water ...John,

This is good to know http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif .. I didn't realize FPPF could handle that much water redface.gif

Here's an interesting demo: http://www.fppf.com/pdemos_flash.html

[whitesnake01]

Originally posted by jbplock:
How did the dealer determine that there is water and dirt in the system?

Fuel additives with either demulsifiers or emulsifiers are only intended to handle very small amounts of water (drops). To remove large amounts of water you have to drop, drain & flush the tank. One other possibility is to use some Power service 911 to absorb the water but it contains alcohol. They did draw a sample from the tank which they have been anxious to show me. But since I am on a business trip out of town, I've been forced to deal with much of this over the phone and I am not going to be able to pick it up until Saturday at which point I doubt they have the stuff left.

I have to take their word for it.

[whitesnake01]

Originally posted by kennedy:
It's up to you how you proceed, but it wouldn't be too hard to draw the fuel out of the tank via a siphon or pump through the filler. Why go through the filter? Why not draw it right out of the neck, dirt and all? This would also reduce the risk that I draw air into the lines, unless I'm prepapred to pump once more after I have refilled the tank.

I may have to ask someone to help me draw it out since I do not know how to properly dispose of it in an environmentally friendly way.

BTW, thank you very much for the responses so far!

[Kennedy]

That was filler as in fill neck.

Depending how bad it is, you may just want to drop the tank.