Bio-Diesel!

[arveetek]

After watching a recent "Trucks" TV episode, my dad got real excited about making bio-diesel out of used veggie oil. I always assumed running bio-diesel meant running a second tank on the truck, and switching back and forth between diesel and bio. However, using a chemical process with methanol and lye, you can make a bio-diesel that you can pour straight into stock diesel truck and run it like regular #2 diesel.

Dad made up his first batch this week and put in his 95 Power Stroke last night. Seems to be running great! It has a higher cetane rating than regular diesel, and the smoke out the tail pipe smells just like a bar-b-que pit! It's quite yummy!

We're both really excited about this, because it only cost us about 55 cents a gallon to produce, using veggie oil from a local restaurant, who has agreed to give us all their used oil for free. Dad made 10 gallons really easily, with minimal investment, and now we're looking into buying larger tanks that will allow us to mix up 150 gallons of ready-to-use bio-diesel at a time. Looks like total cost of equipment we'll need is around $500 to $900, dependning on how many tanks and pumps we get. With today's diesel prices, this should pay off in a hurry.

I'll let you know how things progress and keep you updated on performance and fuel mileage. Also, we'll see how the bio-diesel affects the fuel tanks, lines, and filters.

For more info, you can read this thread, (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008788#000015) which also contains several good links.

Casey

[ 07-02-2005, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: arveetek ]

[john8662]

Cool! I've often thought about making it myself too, but I'm afraid that I don't have enough time to make it and make a few local agreements with restaurants to collect the stuff. Because, once you start picking up the stuff, they want you to keep picking it up...

You know, why don't the companies that are PAID to pick up the grease in the first place do something like this and sell it commercially and cut the big oil companies down a bit?

I just got back from a trip to Abilene TX to pick up a newly acquired 350 gal gravity fill Farm diesel tank. I'm planning on mounting it on a trailer and buying biodiesel thats being produced in a nearby town made of cotton seed oil. I want to start with the B20 mixture. My main reasoning for the commercially produced B20 is to buy a bunch and just use it, take a bite out of the fluctuations we've been seeing in diesel prices. ALSO, with the "ultra-low" sulfer diesel around the corner, I'm wanting to use a fuel that has MUCH better lubricity.

At any rate, keep us updated, sounds sweet!

[Ratau]

John

What is the sulfur content off diesel in the USA? Here in South Africa it

[convert2diesel]

Welcome to the often frustrating world of homemade bio-diesel. If you live in the southern climes then you can use the stuff at 100% but if your doomed to experience temps below freezing then you will still have to mix it with #2 or #1 to keep it from gelling under about 35 degrees.

I live in Canada and can use b100 for about 8 months of the year, but have to go at least to 50/50 by late October. Been making my own stuff for about three years now and power both a 6.2 89 GMC and recently installed a 6.2 in my 91 Buick Roadmaster. Both engines love it and I no longer worry about the lubricity problems with low-sulphur fuel. The truck has been using it for 20,000 miles with no problems and the Buick now has close to 10,000 miles on it.

As an aside, we also use it to fuel our two hot water heaters and our forced air furnace in the home. I too started with the Journey to Forever site but found this site http://biodiesel.infopop.cc to be much more informative and more newbie friendly.

Good luck on your bio projects

Bill

[Moses]

BioDiesel ate my old fuel lines.

Does any one know how many inches of rubber hose are needed to compleatly replace the whole fuel system in an '82 two tanker?

thanks!

[arveetek]

How long did it take for the rubber lines to fail? All the rubber lines on my '81 are new, but it looks like I'll have to replace them with Viton or equivalent hoses soon.

I haven't started running the B100 yet, we're still building the processor and wash tanks....almost ready!

Casey

[20050420|7|006071|000022|69.19.2.78]

Hello Bill,

Have you any picktures of your buick roadmaster?

I have an 77 nova, convertet with an 6.5 :cool:

I have driven my nova on 100% sunfloweroil and it works great!

Arjan

[Moses]

let me try once more.

Does any one know how much fuel line i need to order to replace all my old rubber?

thanks,
moe

[Subzilla]

Get out ye ole tape measure and string! If everybody else is like me, I've never replaced every inch of fuel line at one time (but probably should) so memory of exact length needed is not there. Measure the best you can (don't forget the little section underneath the intake manifold running to the IP) and add an extra couple of feet. Throw the unneeded pieces in your truck's emergency kit. Good luck. This bio-diesel discussion has me doing some serious thinking about the stuff. I've never really looked at it very hard but with these current fuel prices, I may jump on the grease wagon, too!

[Subzilla]

Moses,
Just checked your website links from the other posting on Viton hoses. Wow, that stuff ain't cheap. :eek: Now I know why you want to know the exact length needed!

[Favre Fan]

I have found plenty of info on the Internet about BioDiesel. Try checking out biodiesel.org. This site will tell you where retailers of the stuff are located in your state. It also gives some pointers on refining the waste veggie oil yourself. Those chemicals are nasty stuff and put off some caustic fumes so you may not want to do it in your garage or anywhere close to people. You also need to consider what you will be doing with the glycerine, which is a byproduct of the refining process. This biodiesel will reak havok on the rubber parts in your engine, however it should be good on newer diesel engines as they have been designed to work with low-sulphur diesel which is also hell on rubber parts. Low-sulphur diesel, as I understand it, actually contains biodiesel. When you first make the switch you will need to change your fuel filter often. The biodiesel has a higher detergent content than regular diesel and will clean a ton of filter clogging gunk out of your tank and lines. Good luck.

[doncannon]

Hello all,

arveetek: I got this book off of ebay " From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank " by Joshua Tickell. It has everything from veggie to biodiesel to how to grow your own fuel and how to mix all of these. Obviously a lot more than i can type.

Moses: I can measure my fuel lines tonight, however I would recommend using metal. I have never had any luck with rubber holding up after 3-4 years. I mean it is ok if you plan to get rid of it.
hope this helps,
Don

[convert2diesel]

Don:

Don't take everthing in your book as gospel. Much of the info is either dated or down right inaccurate.

You would be better advised to take some time (alot of time) and log onto http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/. This site is by far the most difinitive site on this topic.

To all:

While certain precautions must be followed, the caustic and methanol are no more dangerous then household cleaning products. We have been making this stuff for three years now and have (knock on wood) experienced no major problems. Just follow the instructions (granted if you are male, that advise is counter intuitive) and be careful.

If you can't afford (or just object to paying for) Vitron, most good guality diesel approved hoses will last two to three years. Try to use steel wherever possible and change the rest on a regular basis. Caution...don't use copper, it will react with the caustics and put junk into your pump (ask me how I know) :eek: .

Hope this helps

Bill

[Moses]

A local BioD nut is buying a couple hundred feet of Viton for resale so i needn't worry about the exact length needed. But i will post how much tubing the job takes if any one else is interested.

i am sorry for my pestyness

moses

[Subzilla]

Casey, keep us informed of your successes and failures. Since I read your post, I too have been bitten by the BD bug. I've been doing lots of research on the suggested websites and it's overwhelming as to all the variations on the processor that can be built. I do like that appleseed reactor but I'm looking for a book or guide that explains everything from start to finish. Has anyone checked out the Homebrew Guide from Girl Mark? Does it cover everything needed to build a system and process the stuff including times, material amounts, equipment, what not to do....?

[gavio]

While I have not read the actual book by Girl Mark, I will say that she has been hip-deep in Biofuels for a lot of years - teaching workshops and stirring the pot in this neck of the woods since the early days. She is also VERY community and grass-roots oriented. I would expect her book to be a very helpful guide.......

This does not constutute a guarantee, however :rolleyes:

As far as fuel hose goes, I want to offer that I tried a lot of different things in the first year and found that the "Barrier" fuel hose from Trident Marine is reasonably priced, easy to find in conventional sizes (at Marine Stores) and recommended by the boat guys who run B100. It has held up in my van for two years now, and upon dissassembling everything I find that it shows no signs of deterioration.

As for the injector return lines, I found Viton available online from Mcmaster Carr (www.mcmaster.com) in a metric size that's just a little tight for the nipples on our injectors. After some messy experiements, I learned that the softer grade of Viton (it comes in hard and soft) has plenty of stretch in it to hold without cracking, and has now held up for two years without leaking as well. They sell it by the foot, and although pricey, you only need a few feet so it isn't that bad. Everything else I tried just melted, often in a couple weeks.

I should specify that my van runs straight veggie oil in a separate-tank system with the startup tank using various mixtures of biodiesel and petro-diesel depending on conditions and availablilty.

Good luck, all!

[Tatraplan]

Originally posted by convert2diesel:
Welcome to the often frustrating world of homemade bio-diesel. If you live in the southern climes then you can use the stuff at 100% but if your doomed to experience temps below freezing then you will still have to mix it with #2 or #1 to keep it from gelling under about 35 degrees.
What happens if BD starts gelling? Is it ruined
forever or will it be useable again when the
temperature rises?

I'm living in Sweden so i'll probably only be
able to use B100 for some 8-9 months a year if
it isn't possible to store it in low temps.

/Robert

[convert2diesel]

Robert:

The first sign will be that your filters will start to clog. If your fuel heaters are working, hopefully you will have enough left to get yourself into a warm garage. The BD will return to original state after warming.

Just a note here, if there was any water emulsified in your fuel before the BD gelled (froze) more then likely when you thaw it out, the water will fall to the bottom.

Make sure your separators are working.

Bill

[Dieselboy]

This is good stuff.

What anti-gelling additives can be used? I'm thinking along the lines of a "Stanadyne blue formula" though that may not mix well with things above B20.

Are there bio-specific anti-gelling additives?

EDIT:
Interesting low temperature study on Biodiesel.org
http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/reportsdatabase/reports/gen/20050728_Gen-354.pdf

[convert2diesel]

David:

While there are a number of companies that claim???? thier product works with bio-diesel, more then likely they are referring to the industry standard bio fuel that only contains 20 percent bio. Thus I am unsure if it is working on the bio component or the #2 component.

Stanadyne has little effect on the gel point of B100 as has been my experience with numerous other additives. The only thing that seems to work is kerosine or #2. Drove most of last winter on B50 and had to go down to B20 on a couple of occassions.

Hope this helps

Bill

[gavio]

My first B100 experiences with B100 were in a 96 VW Passat TDI that belonged to my partner. What we discovered (the hard way, of course) was that the B100 actually started to form wax crystals before it actually gelled. The car would start, but then the crystals would clog the fuel filter, usually after the car had driven a half mile or so :(

If the car were then allowed to sit for a few moments, the leftover heat from the engine (VWs have the fuel filter in the engine compartment) would warm the filter, melting the crystals. The car would start normally, and generally by this time, enough warmed return fuel was going back into the tank to melt the crystals there as well. smile.gif

This was back before biodiesel became popular so we mostly had to figure this out based on bits and pieces (happened three times), but since then, we have blended in some petro-diesel in the winter and have had no problems since, either with her car or my van. I have since confirmed similar experiences with other folks.

This is in a climate that freezes only occasionally, and usually not hard (temps below 30 are rare). I would expect that in lower temps, the B100 would gel more directly, spending less time on the edge. Our local Biodiesel distributor does put in an antigel if requested which they believe is effective on B100 - they tested several brands before settling on this one - I'll try to remember to ask them what it is.

Good luck!