I seem to have hit a little snag...(long, ranting post)

[JeepSJ]

This is more of a rant than anything - I just need to vent about beaurocrats who have their heads stuffed sideways up their a$$es.

As my engineless Wagoneer sits in the driveway and my recently acquired 6.5 with freshly rebuilt 4911 and injectors sits on the stand in my garage, I have been researching Washington emission laws regarding engine swaps.

My first call was to the Department of Ecology - they oversee the emissions testing program. Their response: anything that changes the emissions output is illegal. But, as beaurocrats go, I could not get this guy to give me a definite answer on the diesel swap question. Well, maybe it is, but I don't think so. Blah, blah, blah.

So, I figure the guys who do the testing would know. The testing is contracted by a private company. According to the station manager, the only swaps that are legal are installing an engine that was a factory option for that year, and the engine must be of the same year as the chassis. So, no diesel in the Waggy.

Plan 2 - dump the Waggy and find an early 90's Suburban or crew cab high mileage gasser and swap in the diesel. Nope, that isn't legal either. Even though a diesel was a factory option, it is illegal to convert from gas to diesel (however, you can legally swap from diesel to gas). Yeah, stupid.

So, I asked what would happen if I showed up in a GM truck with a gas VIN and it had a diesel? They would fail the vehicle for having an illegal engine change, even though a diesel was a factory option.

Why would they rather have a gas engine on the road than a diesel?

Decision time. Sell the Waggy and find a diesel powered early 90's truck and dump in the new engine, or dump the diesel and put a EFI gasser into the Waggy?

Funny thing - it is also illegal to switch from carbureted to EFI. Why? Because you are tampering with the emissions equipment that was installed by the factory. But, since there is no visual inspection, that one would probably slip by.

For sale - 1997 6.5 (17K miles), rebuilt 4911, rebuilt injectors, Detroit Diesel single plane intake.

[britannic]

There may be another option, down here in the R. O. Kalifornia, a lot of guys facing a similar law, find a chassis or body from 1901-1974 (pick an appropriate year) which has clean title and swap their modern stuff on to it. One guy has a beautiful 1947 Dodge body on Toyota running gear and had no problem with the DMV once they saw his paperwork and VIN # for a pre-smog 1947 Dodge.

[arveetek]

Hasn't there been others on this site from WA who have converted their vehicles to diesel? Wasn't Aloha Rovers from WA? He installed a 6.2L into his Land Rover.

There's got to be a way around such stupid laws.

Thank goodness Missouri doesn't do any kind of emission checks. We just have a visual safety inspection every two years.

Casey

[Quack_Addict]

Your story is similar to me trying to pull a building permit for a pole barn. I can pretty much build it as high as I want, but the bureaucrats say any building with a door higher than 7' is a commercial building. My house is in a residential area... A 7' high door on a pole barn? C'mon!!! I'll nearly have to duck when walking under it AND my `84 3/4 ton WILL NOT fit inside!

[CleviteKid]

Hey Quack:

I think your 7' door should have a 3' transom above it for ventilation, hinged at the top. IF you sorta leave out any permanent frame piece at the top of the door between it and the swinging transom . . . . . . . . .

The Clevite Kid ;)

[JeepSJ]

Well, the way around it (and the way I may have gotten around the CA laws when I lived there) is to register it outside of the inspection area. Well, WA had the foresight to add a little clause to the emissions laws to specifically state that registering a vehicle outside of the emissions area when you reside within the emissions area is illegal. If you get pulled over and your address on your registration does not match your license, you have to go to court and PROVE residency at the address that is on your registration. If you cannot prove it, you get a huge fine and they revoke the registration until you get an emissions check.

Something that corssed my mind earlier today - what if the truck is registered to my company, and the company address is a PO Box that is outside of the emissions area. Hmmm. I think a business license is only $35.

[dieselhumvee]

If I am not mistaken those wagoneers go back a long way, get an early 70's wagoneer and swap your newer suspension and interior into it along with the diesel.

[G. Gearloose]

What a PITA to double the truck's milage.

So likely the emmissions is contracted out to a private company, right? There is likely not an inspector at each station every day, they likely float around. Find out wich days the station is manned by the operators only. Lets say it takes the edge off when the inspector is not there.

Build your truck, make it look as factory and quiet as possible (no side pipes).

OR retard the timing to eliminate the clink, add a crank trigger and a spark-box, a distributer cap to an old, rear-mounted vacuum pump, so the guy has a wire to put the probe onto to get a signal and let him test away.

OR ask your hot wife to dress up and take it to the station for you.

OR purchase an old wagoneer shell and 'update' it.
OR do all 3, or 4...

[JeepSJ]

I talked to the manager at one of the stations about it. They enter your VIN into a computer and it tells them what engine should be in the vehicle. He told me that if it comes up as having a gas and it is diesel, they will automatically fail it without testing it. Granted, they are not the brightest people in the world - my SBC powered CJ5 came up as a 4 cyl on the VIN report, and they never questioned the dual exhaust, fenderwell exit headers and the scream of the gear driven cam, they just stuck sensors in each pipe and tested it.

But, I may have a solution. I think I found a nice 78 Wagoneer - more than 25 years old is smog exempt.

[britannic]

I spoke to a smog tester here in CA and he told me they measure the exhaust and compare it to a table that shows a range of values expected for a certain type of engine over it's wear life. The computer is programmed to send an alert to DMV if the values match say a 4 cylinder, when the tester is supposed to be testing a V8, this is to stop people using the VIN from the real car and then sticking the probe in a surrogate motor to pass smog.


Originally posted by G. Gearloose:
What a PITA to double the truck's milage.

So likely the emmissions is contracted out to a private company, right? There is likely not an inspector at each station every day, they likely float around. Find out wich days the station is manned by the operators only. Lets say it takes the edge off when the inspector is not there.

Build your truck, make it look as factory and quiet as possible (no side pipes).

OR retard the timing to eliminate the clink, add a crank trigger and a spark-box, a distributer cap to an old, rear-mounted vacuum pump, so the guy has a wire to put the probe onto to get a signal and let him test away.

OR ask your hot wife to dress up and take it to the station for you.

OR purchase an old wagoneer shell and 'update' it.
OR do all 3, or 4...

[ 03-05-2004, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: britannic ]

[rjwest]

Darn, I reality didn't think the left coast was
as bad as they said. I guess it's worse.....
FLORIDA, NO INSPECTIONS/ NO SMOG TEST. ( no State
income tax )

Y0all could move....

[84 Convert]

Or here in good ole WA just move out to the sticks. Nobody has ever questioned my swap. When pulled over I HAVE shut down the engine! Of course, with the 6.2L coming back, I should no longer have any problems. I think the '78 Waggy sounds like a good idea, as long as you never have to get it tested. I thankfully have not had to deal with the bereaucracy in our state on that sort of thing, so I honestly don't know how that would work. Your project is actually something I have considered in the past, really hope it turns out well for you. Good luck!

Gregg

On edit: Hmmmm, if we could just get rid of all this stupid stuff, maybe our state budget would be fine without our beloved governor raising taxes every time he gets a chance! Sorry, everybody, I just can't help myself!

[catmandoo]

if you get a pre 75 i believe was the end of em waggy they used turbo 400 transmissions,so all you would need is to get a 400 chevy trans and it would bolt right up to the transfer case,don't go older than 74 as 73 had the enclosed u-joints on the front axle and drum brakes and they have the turning radius of a greyhound bus.i don't remember if 76 and 77 also used the 400 but the 78 definately had the 727 chrysler trans.

[86burb]

Check to see what DMV requires for commercial vehicles, Up here they don't go through emmision checks. I registered my C20 gasser as a commercial vehicle with a 5001kg GVW, (anything under requires testing). This lets me modify things to my liking (straight pipes no cats and other goodies).

[dieselbegreat]

Like someone suggested, creating a legal entity having an address in a jurisdiction of your choosing is one way. A business license is one way to use a different address but, as a DBA, is still you for most purposes. Another way is incorporating an LLC in whatever state you want (like Delaware) and then maintaining a resident agent (someone who just signs papers and accepts mail for the LLC) in another state with minimal emission laws (Florida, Missouri, Tennessee, etc.) who will register and insure the vehicles for the LLC - probably cost prohibitive for one vehicle. Another simple way is to transfer title of the vehicle to a friend as trustee by way of contract (while you retain a lien if you like). Your trusty friend can register and insure the vehicle at their address as trust property. But this kind of knowledge is expensive and hard to come by. I was actually thinking about starting a combination of the above as a service to people such as yourself (and skimming a little off the top for myself for adminstration) but there are a lot of irresponsible people out there who would be getting parking tickets and running into people creating a liability nightmare for such an organization which makes such a thing impracticable unless there was a way to enforce strict liability back to the user.