4911pump&injectors installed

[waorth]

Hello folks,

just want to let you know that today I've completed my pump and injector upgrades. Along with gear drive and new balancer.

I aligned the timing marks and got the typical diesel rattle. Thinks it's okay for the first.

Test drive showed POWER!, but also lots of black smoke when I hit the throttle. Next couple of days I will increase air flow. Maybe I will test with an open air filter to see if it then smokes only with full throttle.

Walter

[shamanie]

ooooo, more details man. Which injectors? Where did you buy from? How much did you pay? How did the install go? Any snags? How much more power, i.e., on a butt dyno scale of 1-10(1 lowest and 10 "Holy sh$%") where would you place this upgrade?

Thanks

[britannic]

Check your timing to be certain the black smoke isn't being caused by the too much advance as well as not enough air. GM allowed for the slop in a new chain when they set the timing marks and the dual idler gears remove practically all of the play.

[diesel65]

Running a 4911 pump without a turbo is going to generate black smoke.

[waorth]

Thanks for the input guys, I appreciate it!!

@shamanie
All of the goodies I bought from John Kennedy (http://www.kennedydiesel.com/), a DP vendor. Look at his website for options and prices.
Well, after the event I would say the install wasn't that bad at all. But if you'd asked me during the 4 day installation process (freezing cold, snow, rain, truck sitting in the driveway, need new balancer etc.), I probably would have made a nice little necklace from my old timing chain for you . . .
Worst things I remember were getting the oil pan bolts aligned with the timing cover and installing the balancer - there's practically no way to hammer that $%&

[britannic]

Originally posted by diesel65:
Running a 4911 pump without a turbo is going to generate black smoke. Doc Lee is running a 4911 + 6.5LTD injectors as far as I know and doesn't yet run a "steenkin" turbo, just his exhaust and air upgrades. I don't know where his pump is calibrated, but it's not difficult to turn the pump down to compensate for the lack of turbo.

[ 03-13-2004, 06:48 PM: Message edited by: britannic ]

[waorth]

retarded the timing by 1/16" this morning. Still rattling but not as much as before.
I too reopened a hole in the airfilter housing I cutted out years ago only to make out that it caused nothing but more noise.
Now it still is louder but also could perform from the added airflow.
Black smpke only visible under mid to hard throttle now.

Walter

[waorth]

Hi everyone,

here's a short summary of my experiences with the mods (4911 pump, 6.5l, injectors, gear drive).

Maybe someone is interested (thanks Les and Shamanie for the encouragement ;) )
English is not my mother language, so writing here mostly is done by searching my german-english dictionary for the best words.

First of all, I'm impressed with the power! only a light tip on the throttle gives me lots of thrust!

Still not able to find a shop which is able to do dynamic timing, at least not a reliable one.

I retarded the timing another 1/16, so the lines are 1/8 retarded (about 6 degrees) now. However this is based on a timing chain setup.
As I read here (thanks Britannic and others), the gears remove nearly all play, so the original marks can only be a clue.

Lots of black smoke under hard throttle. Maybe I should turn down the pump a little. What do you think? Should a 1/4 of a turn on the fuel screw do it?
Also mileage decreases to 12mpg, but this may result from my test drives too.

Yesterday I modified the air filter housing. Now it is fully open round about (remember Doc Lee's current setting :D ). I for sure know there will be a hell of roaring, but this way I will know if enough air will affect the black smoke.

Next things will be a new 3" exhaust with balancer pipe. This will help keep air flowing and EGTs down.

Next weekend there's a 1/4 mile race in the neighborhood (very rare in germany). Maybe I should give it a try . . .

Regards. Walter

[ 03-11-2004, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: waorth ]

[20050420|7|006071|000022|69.19.2.78]

Hello Walter,

What gint of blockheater do you have?
i see it is 220 volt`s

i am intresting because i live in holland. smile.gif

[waorth]

Hi chevy Nova,

I got my heater from a local parts dealer. It's from DEFA (http://www.defa.com/heating.php3?lang=). They're offering a wide range of warm ups for cars & trucks. For my M1008 I used the type which you put in the block instead of a freeze plug. I also installed a cab heater (one of the very few comforts in my CUCV smile.gif ) from the same company.

If your car/engine is not listed in their online catalog, try to find another car with the same size of freeze plugs (i.e. the 6.2L uses the same size as Ford Escort :mad: ).

Regards. Walter

[waorth]

Well folks,

the roaring with an open air filter indeed is LOUD! And it is VERY LOUD above 2500rpm.

At exactly 2500rpm it seems a bit quieter. Maybe my ears suffered from driving this CUCV over 6 years (at least my hair still has its original color and didn't turn white as it happened to other longtime 6.2 drivers ;) ).

Enough air and still lots of black smoke under hard throttle. I definately will turn down the fuel a little bit. The 4911 (calibrated for the 6.5TD) seems to offer more diesel than my small N/A 6.2 can burn.

Walter

[Peter J. Bierman]

Time for a turbo, or two if you like :D

Peter

[britannic]

You can either control your smoke with your foot :D and enjoy the extra power at lower throttle settings, or start off with an 1/8 of a turn reduction on the IP plunger stroke screw (anti-clockwise if memory serves).

Before turning down the pump, experiment with your timing and find the point where retarding or advancing it results in less power and/or more smoke.

[Stage1]

Walter,
The status report sounds great!

A couple of questions 1). at what throttle position does it start to smoke, and 2). does increasing throttle add more power along w/increased smoke?

1/4 mile time sounds outstanding, if you do it I will take my stock truck this summer. :D

Do you have EGT data, this would be interesting to know. I monitor all eight cylinders on race car, learn a lot about how engine is performing.

Les

[waorth]

Thanks for your comments!

Peter
may I take this as a sale offer? smile.gif

Britannic
good idea. I will first play a little with the timing settings. What would first indicate a timing too retarded? Absolutely no rattle? Smoke at startup?

Poor thing is, I don't have an EGT gauge. But this is involved in my plans for the new exhaust (fall/winter this year).

Les
question #1
no smoke if I'm driving level with slow throttle. I try to let the engine pull and not to push it with the throttle. This way I can manage it to highspeed without any smoke (at least not noticable in the mirrors). Ok, this is driving level.
When going uphill (steep) and have to push the throttle harder, there's black/brown smoke. If I push even harder, the cars behind me are putting on their headlights, assuming it's nightfall. :D
I think along the first third of throttle there's not to much smoke.

question #2
I have a feeling that when increasing throttle past that "smoke point", power will not increase much more, however power is still noticable.

As you can read above, unfortunately I've no EGT gauge up to now.

Now let's look ahead to saturday's quarter mile. Never been at one of these events. I hope there are not only turboed volkswagen and japanese cars.


Again thanks a lot. I really encourage your comments.

Walter

[britannic]

When engine timing is too retarded, power will be down, sluggish acceleration, more smoke and harder warmer starting. I experimented with my timing by measuring how long it took to accelerate along a section of highway near me. Eventually I found a setting that yielded hardly any smoke and gave the best performance. With dual idler gears, 4911, 6.5LTD injectors and turbo, this proved to be 2.6* BTDC at 1300rpm, which is slightly retarded from the military recommended 4* BTDC @ 1300rpm.

Each engine is a little different and other factors, such as higher altitudes will increase smoke and retard the ignition in a N/A engine.


Originally posted by waorth:


Britannic
good idea. I will first play a little with the timing settings. What would first indicate a timing too retarded? Absolutely no rattle? Smoke at startup?

Walter

[waorth]

Like Britannic recommended (thanks again), I experimented a little with the timing today.

Going from approx. 1/8" retarded (my experiences about that can be read in a former posting) to about 1/4" and back to 3/16" (remember: aligning the marks on pump and front cover was for chain drive type, now dual idler gears are installed).

With 1/4" ATDC, there's a lack of power. Black smoke on upgrades still occurs, even when soft on the throttle (this did not happen with 1/8" retarding). On level there's less smoke AND less power.

3/16" ATDC (wonder if I will still talk in non-metric measures at work on monday http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/misc/hotsuprise.gif ) regains power with a decent amount of smoke.
I think this will be the setup for next week.

Hope I'll find a good shop for dynamic timing measurements.

Mileage went up to 13mpg http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/icons/yay.gif


Regards.
Walter

[britannic]

Just a thought, did you try your timing with the marks aligned yet?

[waorth]

Yep, that was my starting point after gears and pump install. VERY loud diesel rattle and tons of smoke.

[ 03-13-2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: waorth ]

[britannic]

Once you've found the point of diminishing returns with your timing, maximized your exhaust and intake flow, the next step is to turn the pump down about an 1/8 of a turn and recheck.

[waorth]

I will take your advice britannic.
Was a little impatient after the first days of install and wanted to correct all at once.
As you mentioned, turning down the pump should only be considered after all other upgrades/modifications are complete (or if you can't stay the new power of the beast :D ).

I re-installed the airfilter housing (which I modified in the past by cutting a second opening into the sheet metall). I didn't notice any lack of power in comparison to the open system I was running for 2 days. Do you think the additional opening will provide enough air?

I hardly can't wait for the exhaust upgrade.

BTW, on my favorite hill (8 degrees) my 6500lbs truck now reaches 50mph. http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/icons/yay.gif
Don't know if I can compare with others, but before the pump/injectors install, it hardly got to 40mph.

Walter