TONS OF BLACK SMOKE!

[Lothar]

I just got back from a trip from Reliance Tennessee to Watertown New York in Lothar. This is the first time i've driven with the Doug Nash OD. I noticed that i get tons of black smoke during city driving and on the highway i'm still having overheating problems. I have a rack that hauls 10 whitewater kayaks on the campershell so i am getting wind resistance equivelant of a large 5th wheel, but in order to pull a moderate hill the motor bogs down and spews smoke like a locomotive while the temp guage skyrockets. Does this sound like too much fuel? Or misadjusted timing? Or both. If so how do i check and fix the timing. I talked with the guys at Diesel Depot and he told me how to adjust fuel delivery at the pump, i'll try that first. I do think my timing chain is slack. In syracuse i noticed that when i am holding the throtle so that the motor revvs just at the right speed to not accelerate or decelerate the motor surges with power, but when i press more on the throtle it luggs the power on like normal. This motor has approx 150K. I'm not the first owner so i do not know what was done to it in the past, i just put it in. I will eventually get a set of timing gears, but until i can afford them any suggestions on checking and adjusting the timing and fuel properly?

Thanks

[britannic]

Has this problem just started, or has it always happened?

Do you have a turbo installed?

What modifications have been made to the air intake and exhaust to improvement air flow and back pressure?

Do you have an EGT gauge installed?

Have you had the IP timing checked?

Black smoke is usually a sign of:

1. not enough air to burn all of the fuel.

2. retarded IP timing timing

3. malfunctioning wastegate or turbo (if installed)

4. too high a gear (when towing, D or 3rd is recommended for hills as the engine cannot rev to peak torque/power.

5. other members, please add to this list!

From experience on these forums, the timing chain is usually due for replacement above 100,000 miles, but YMMV.

The dual idler timing gears are awesome, although costly, so if you're not going to keep the truck, you may want to just install new a chain etc.

[Lothar]

No turbo, no EGT, no exhaust mods, the only intake mod is a cold air induction tube from the front of the grill, its always smoked since i put this motor in. Its just a basic motor, no mods or guages yet. I do intend to keep the truck so i will eventually put in the timing gears, just cant afford them yet. Any way to check the timing to see if its retarded? IF so how do i advance it properly? Any way to do these things without special tools or equipment? If not is there anyone with the necessary stuff near the Chattanooga, Atlanta, Knoxville, Greenville SC area?

[Lothar]

I just went and looked around the injector pump and found that it looks like the pump has never been advanced. There is a line on the chain cover and a line on the pump. these are exactly lined up. I'm assuming that that means the pump is still set as it was from the factory. This motor has about 150K so how far should i advance it? What results do i look for (smoke color amount sounds ect)

[britannic]

Start with 1/16" between the lines by rotating the pump toward the driver's side to advance it (pump spins counter-clockwise), if you have to advance the IP more than 1/8", you'll probably need to replace the timing chain and gears.

See if this helps clear up the black smoke.

[Lothar]

I just advanced the timing a little more than 1/16, less than 1/8th. Still smoking but tons more power, especially at higher RPM's. I'm going to drive it some tonight and see how the temp looks.

[Lothar]

Looks like i'm facing a similar problem as painthorsman. I advanced the timing a little more than 1/16th starts right up, idles smooth, tons more power than before. Lothar can now run 70 mph without much problem as far as power is concerned loaded with 10 kayaks. MUCH more diesel clatter. Similar situation to Painthorsman. kind of sluggish at lower RPM's (although better than before) then suddenly at higher RPM's it just screams with power. Now i am used to what it was like before, so Painthorsman may be too used to the 454. the only problem i am still having is tons of smoke still, and the engine temp still rising. Slower than before it seems, but it also cools off more slowly. It used to cool back down below 210 very quickly when it got hot, but now it takes almost twice as long. I can run 70 now using verry little throtle, but the temp climbs slowly to about half way between the 3/4 mark and the H, when i get to a hill i have plenty of reserve power and throtle, but when i use it the temp just rises more quickly. The timing had not been adjusted before, so i doubt the fuel screw had been adjusted, but no telling. Any ideas?? One more thing, power surges like crazy when i am decelerating at 0 throtleat regular intervals, huge surges of power, kind of scary, feels like the truck us just going to drive right through a stop if it took off.

[britannic]

Check that your CDR valve is working correctly. There were some recent posts explaining this in the last 30-40 days; here's one to get you started: Faulty CDR Symptoms Topic (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=002039#000001)

To further address you problem: get more air into the engine by modifying the intake. R&R the timing chain and gears, if they haven't been changed in the last 150K miles. Check the cylinder compression as well.

The last resort is to turn down the fuel, YMMV, but the symptoms you're describing point to worn timing chain, too little air/retarded cam timing and a CDR valve that's allowing too much oil into the intake whence it gets drawn into the engine and burnt during deceleration.

With my 150K+ engine, I had very similar symptoms.

[Dieselboy]

As far as replacing the CDR, I was looking at switching over to the later model style that runs off of the modified passenger-side valve cover. Do you think that I could swap valve cover without removing the injector lines?

I'm experiencing some smoke on take off, and with a 320,000 mile old style CDR it might be time to upgrade anyway.

[catmandoo]

nope

[britannic]

Originally posted by Dieselboy:
As far as replacing the CDR, I was looking at switching over to the later model style that runs off of the modified passenger-side valve cover. Do you think that I could swap valve cover without removing the injector lines?

I'm experiencing some smoke on take off, and with a 320,000 mile old style CDR it might be time to upgrade anyway. The rocker and valve spring assemblies are just too tall to allow the rocker covers to be slid from under the injector lines if they're still connected.

YMMV, but I would recommend removing the passenger side lines completely along with the intake manifold - otherwise you'd have to bend the lines out of the way and risk damage or at the least an unsightly, hard to manage mess of lines.

[Dieselboy]

I didn't think I would be that lucky. ;)

[Dieselboy]

If I'm going to take the intake off, I might as well try to put on a better one than my dual plane J intake. I have a single plane hummer intake and another single plane 6.5TD intake laying around. I know that the tall studs aren't going to line up, and that means some kustom fab work probably is in order, but has anybody tried to mate either of these intakes with the Banks boost plenum?

[Kadzban]

I swapped my old stlye CDR and passenger vavle cover with the newer 6.5 style . I removed the intake manifold. Then 3 of the injector lines I took loose from both the pump and injectors. 1 I just took loose from the injector because it was one of the bottom 2 on the pump. That was enough with mild tweaking on the one line remaining on the pump to get out the valve cover.

[Lothar]

I'm thinking of ideas to get more air into the intake. Will a 6.5 intake bolt to a 6.2 without mods? I am looking into custom fabing twin airboxes (one on each side of the motor vented through the fenders with ramair type ducts on the outside) and custom fabing a conection to the intake, maybe using a stock 6.5 hookup somehow. Any thoughts? I heard something about a "Doc Lee" double air intake, any more information? I cant find anything. Whats the best way to get more air into the motor. I noticed much more smoke since i put in an air filter. I havent driven the truck much since i put this motor in and i found that the mechanic never put in a filter, it still smoked a ton, but not as much as it has since i put in a paper filter, i know the K&N is better and i'll go that rout when i decide on the airbox type and location.