Finally got started

[snoman87]

6.2 Turbo Diesel Swap
Many of you may be familiar with my project but others might not. I am dropping a 6.2 with an aftermarket ATS Turbo into my 86' 1Ton 4X4 Crew Cab. Over the past few months I have been collecting information and parts. A few weeks ago I finally go the engine ready to drop in.
http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/6.2TDSwap/6.2TurboDiesel.jpg

Now that the Turbo is on and everything tightened up it was time to make arrangements to pull the 350. I made arrangements with a guy I met off a local 4X4 forum and made arrangements to get started.
http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/6.2TDSwap/Start_side.JPG

We started by pulling the front clip off in one peace ... after figuring out that we had to remove the front bumper!!
http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/6.2TDSwap/clip_off.JPG

Now there was no front clip I parked it in the back 40 for the night.

......Few Days later:

I drove the truck to the front of the garage and proceeded to remove the 350, I decided to leave the power steering pump and hoses intake. Later discovering the mounting bracket for the 6.2 is completely different ... so much so simple!!

http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/6.2TDSwap/Pulling_engine_before.JPG
and a few hours later:
http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/6.2TDSwap/Pulling_engine_after.JPG

With both engines clear we proceeded to swap over the clutch, pressure plate, and bell housing from the 350 to the 6.2. On thing to note, the bell housing inspection cover didn't fit properly because the 6.2 starter. After a little grinder work to open the hole it fit fine.
http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/6.2TDSwap/Swapping_clutch.JPG

After some wiggling and cursing because the throughout bearing keep falling off the fork we got the engine back in, but not bolted in. I installed Energy Suspension motor mounts and I can't seem to get the holes lined up properly. It was getting late and hard to see so the truck got rolled out of the garage entrance and covered by a tarp.

More to come in a few days smile.gif

[ 12-22-2005, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: snoman87 ]

[snoman87]

The other day I left with the engine in but the engine mounts where not bolted.
http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/6.2TDSwap/6.2_installed.JPG

That ATS turbo manifold sure takes up a lot of room on the passenger side

[CleviteKid]

Looking good, and you did a fine job of documenting your work with photographs. Thanks for the updates, and good luck as you approach the finish line.

I have nothing for admiration for those of you that do major work on your trucks wearing your snow-mobile suits and electric socks.

Dr. Lee :cool:

[snoman87]

luckly it's been quite warm lately ... hopefully I can get the electrical issue figured out before it gets really cold again

[Portland Suburban]

ok, I did some research and cannot not find much info on the ATS system for the 6.2L. Can you point me in the right direction?

While I am at it, are there any alternatives to the Banks system for the 6.2L?

[snoman87]

unfortunately there is not much out there other than banks for our older 6.2's. ATS no longer sells this turbo and you'd be luck if they even admitted to selling one when you call them. I got mine used from the local buy & sell.

I am trying to put together as much information as I can to post on my website but so far I don't have much.

[snoman87]

Got the fenders and everything back on but the electrical issue still exists ... I have one leaky injector overflow block off hose on the farthest back passanger side ... would have to be the one with almost no room to get around :( Why couldn't it have been the drivers side!!!

Anyway ... I have removed the harness to troubleshoot the electronic problem. So far everything checks out on the engine harness side.

[ 01-01-2006, 03:43 PM: Message edited by: snoman87 ]

[snoman87]

Over the last week I too a look at the engine harness and everything was fine except for a piece that went from the glow plug controler to the junction box on the firewall. I took the opportunity to modify the glow plug controler's location. I rerouted the 85' glow plug controler wire so that it was located on the fender. From my 83' harness transplanted the actual glow plug wires.

http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/glow_plug_contoller.JPG

Good and bad news from todays activity ... I got the engine harness installed and the electrical issue is resolved. Don't know why I never did change anything that would have affected it.

Anyway, after getting it all back together it was time to try starting it. Took a few attempts of almost starting but not quit and then it came to life ... what a releif ... it runs:) But wait, there was now a huge puddle of oil under my truck on the drivers side. Turns out the top of the oil filter had a layer of ice on it. The pressure popped the seal and spewed oil everywhere. I now have to figure out how to ensure there is no more ice anywhere else in the engine before I start it again. I have drained the oil and will be replacing the filter.

It seems to idle a little high but at least is starts smile.gif

[ 01-08-2006, 03:06 PM: Message edited by: snoman87 ]

[twaddle]

Hi Snoman,
If you have any doubts about the any more water in the oil, let things settle overnight. In the morning drain the oil from the sump, any water should have settled to the bottom and will drain out first letting you see it before the oil comes out.

Was there any water present when you last drained it?

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[snoman87]

There is no oil in it now ... I have the oil filter and drain plug removed. I forgot to mention that everything here is frozen here ... so the water in the oil is also frozen. Yes unfortunately the way I had my tarp covering the roof of the truck allow watter to get into the air filter area, tarp tucked under the hood.

There was water in the oil when I drained it this summer. It must not have completely come out

[snoman87]

Got it running today ... now I have a small coolant issue to resolve. It's leaking out of the cylinder heads at the top where the 83' glow plug controller is ... both sides ... knew I shouldn't have taken them off :(

Anyway, that's minor because it's running smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif As you can see it really smokes, I am hoping that turning the IP up a 1/4 turn will reduce the amount of smoke.

http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/little_smoke.JPG

I also added in a 10ohm 2W resistor to the glow circut and now I have 16 seconds of glow ... cool

[john8662]

The pump that's installed on the engine now is the same pump that was being used with the turbo setup. This engine and turbo went together right?

If so, the pump is already turned up 1/4 turn for the turbo.

I don't like the sight of the smoke, but the engine will need to be run for awhile to clean up and start running right.

When you did the rear block off plates, what did you use for gaskets? I've had great luck with using the felpro gasket (called a crossover gasket at the parts store) and a small tube of grey waterpump RTV. It comes in a little tube and works really well for coolant. Haven't had any problems with leaks using the product.

J

[snoman87]

Nope ... turbo is an add-on to the engine. The pump is is stock NA setup, but apparently the engine was tuned for max fuel economy according to the precious owner ... what ever that means.

The truck hasn't ran for very long either ... I am hoping that modifying the IP and setting the timing correct will resolve the smoking. What worries me is the extremely loud noise coming from the engine ... and it's not the typical diesel rattle, something else, almost sounds like lifters if it was a gasser.

When I did the block-off plate I reused the origional gaskets ... shoud have put new ones on and cleaned it properly when it was out, mt bad

[snoman87]

Video clip now available
From my website http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td:

Running in Jimmy http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/Video/DSCF0121.AVI

Now it CC With ATS http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/Images/DSCF0170.AVI

or
http://media.putfile.com/DSCF017022 - CC
http://media.putfile.com/DSCF0171 - CC
http://media.putfile.com/DSCF0121 - Jimmy

[ 01-09-2006, 01:20 PM: Message edited by: snoman87 ]

[john8662]

You're getting way too much smoke IMHO.

When the engine is running, do you have any blow-by coming out of the oil filler tube (when the engine is cole especially)?

The noise, the very fast and frequent pronounced "rattle" as I hear it sounds like it's with the RPM of the engine, so I doesn't sound valve train related.

Does the sound go away with any change to the rest of the drivetrain, like putting it in gear and inching off the clutch, etc?

Gotta get to the bottom of the smoke thing.

Verify that the injection pump's timing mark's are line up with the mark on the front cover, this should be very well close enough not to smoke like you're seeing.

What does the smoke "smell" like, If it's the white smoke that burns your eyes and smells like raw fuel it could be timing. But you might also smell oil burning too, perhaps the turbo is spewing oil into the intake? You could verify this by removing the output boot on the turbo (I don't know how easy this will be, I'll soon find out on mine) and see how oily it is, if it's soaked and coated fully with black oil, then your engine is smokeing because it's burning lots of oil that's being fed to it through the intake.

[Lightyear]

Hey Snoman - I kow this is off the engine noise and smoke subject, but do you have any photos or documentation on how you pulled the front clip? That looks like the easiest way to acess the lump for a swap, especially indoors. No hurry on this, just curious for future reference. Good luck with your project,
Buzz

[snoman87]

Thanks for the input ... I agree about the smoke. Doesn't smell oily just smell like cold diesel exhaust. I opened the oil filter and didn't feel any presure + or -. Getting that turbo prechamber off is going to be a royal PAIN but necessary.

The sound is more pronounced from under the truck and appears to me to be coming from the head somewhere ... but I am not sure.

I will check it all out when I go out there next. I've picked up 2 new gaskets and a block off plate for the coolant issue, Got direction for adjusting the IP pump.

Just need to find something that issustrated how to "verify that the injection pump's timing mark's are line up with the mark on the front cover"

I added a before pulling from donor jimmy to the av clips for you to listen to.

[ 01-09-2006, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: snoman87 ]

[snoman87]

Lightyear: It's not really too hard to take the whole front clip off in one peice. First thing we did was remove the hood, then disconnected the front clip wiring, remove the grill to access the rad support mounting bolts, and remove those mounting bolts. There are 5 more bolts to remove ... on each side there are 2 bolts holding the inner fender to the cab and there are 3 bolts holding the outer fender tot he cab (one inside the engine compartment by the hood hinge, one between the fender when the door is open and one at the bottom of the fender on the frame side. Don'f forget to remove the bumper also, that's where we got supprised

With 2 guys lift and wiggle the front clip off. It would have been easier if we did this without tires. This was the best way for me and did allow easy access to the engine.

Good Luck

[snoman87]

Got a little more accomplished last night. Timing and fuel metering adjusted, pic on my web page.

When I started it up there seemed to be less smoke. I am thinking that the timing could have been the cause of the white smoke. The timing marks are now lined up.

This picture is a little deceiving, when I looked down on it there was more gap between the mark ... but this will give you a rough idea.
http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/Images/timming_before.JPG

Just got to replace a couple gaskets and the vacum pump now ... getting closer smile.gif

[john8662]

Good work, yes your timing appears to have been retarded according to the marks in the pictures, which would cause your engine to smoke. See how well it runs with your timing adjustment of lining up the marks. I'd suggest moving the pump only line width to the right (driver's side) to advance the timing slightly, this will also help compensate for a slightly stretched timing chain.

I guess this is the way the previous owner calibrated the truck for max fuel economy, not a great move.

J

[snoman87]

it was quite difficult to just get it the marks lined up. Is there a tool or trick to turn it.

What should I look for, in the way of damage. Asuming this engine was retarded for some time.

Thanks for you help ... really appriciated

[Lightyear]

Thanks for the words, Snoman. I may be undertaking an engine swap in teh not too distant future, and that tip will really help. Good luck with your truck, eh!

BUzz

[john8662]

Not much to look for now.

There seems to be a balance in Exhaust Gas Temp even naturally aspirated with the timing. Having the timing too much retarded gives higher EGT's under load, and having too much advance can give too hight EGT's as well. Somewhere in between is where you want it.

[Barry Nave]

I really don't get over hear to this site but hats off to you man ;) To work on this in the cold( I have a heated shop myself)I can see the hard work.You are truely a diesel guy :D

[snoman87]

Cold ... man it's not cold yet smile.gif We are having a mild winter so far ... that's why I am able to do the work. If this thread helps anyone then it was all worth it.

So ... today I drove the beast down the road and figured out that a few more things. First off, I have a oil leak coming out the oil filler tube, what appears to be a rear main seal leak and worst of all a turbo that leaks :( At least I can drive it now.

The ticking noise I was worried about is something with the flywheel/inspection cover. Not too worried about that, I will fix it when it comes time to repairing the rear main.

[john8662]

What leaks about the turbo?

How about the smoke, gone?

I hope to have my ATS turbo engine running and in the truck in about three weeks (basing this on paychecks for parts).

[snoman87]

Still smoking a little bit ... I am thinking maybe a little bit due to the oil leaking paste the turbo's seals, but not sure ... it still smells like diesel smoke little black when the throllte is hit so I might have to turn the IP back a little.

The turbo is also leaking oil into the intake manifold. Not a masive amount but enough to put a thin layer on the inside of the housing ... and it's not coming from the CDR.

After working around the injector pump I noticed it's got a label from a local diesel shop ... looks like it's been replaced in the past.

On a very positive note ... I took it for a dirve ... a few time smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif

[Barry Nave]

Maybe with some run time it could get better?
How long did Eng. sat not running.
Would a oil sealer of some type be of use?
Now that you have some run time,hows the oil color look?
Looks like you did get some water into the Eng.
A little black smoke is not bad(should see mine :D )though I would go more by what the EGT are than how much smoke.

[twaddle]

Snoman,
I seem to remember you mentioned that the pump had already been turned up by the previous owner with the turbo installation.
Perhaps the pump has been turned up just a little too much if the owner did it himself.

Also is the lift pump making good pressure?

May I suggest keeping a note of what happens while adjusting the pump timing at each move and in relation to the timing mark/line.
I find this helps me remember what actually happens rather that "I think it happened".

Good luck and I've enjoyed your post, we are planning on moving from Scotland to Alberta sometime next year and I may be like you be working out in the snow if I don't get myself a heated workshop, brrrr.

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[Barry Nave]

Good point Jim
I do like this kind of info.
I'v heared most DB2 user use how much rattle they hear for timing other than an glow plug timing set up.
He may or could use more adavance?
A little smoke under power would be normal,should see Dr. Lee's truck :D Non turbo man :rolleyes: ;)

[Barry Nave]

Snoman
Show us a pic. of where timing is at now.

[Barry Nave]

Cold ... man it's not cold yet

Have to look where your at.Many parts of USA is more north than CDN.
Edit;
I see where your at now,closet to MP.
So what were the Temps at this time?

[snoman87]

Thanks for the input ... oil is black, I have run it for about 1hr now since parking it ... last ran a little under 1 year ago. I am going to get at least a tank or fuel running time before I mess with the timming any further. Marks are lined up. The engine does not sound bad, iddles a little high but I am sure that's just a idle screw adjustment.

The EGT guage is next to install. it has 2 red wires and on blue ... gota figure out what's what first.

twaddle: get the heated shop, you'll thank me when is -30C and you have to work on anything smile.gif

[twaddle]

Snoman,
I intend to try and get a place with a heated workshop. If not I'll be building one, it makes life a little easier and the job can be done quicker in a workshop rather than rolling around outside in all weathers.

Most of my working life has been spent working on site in all weather and as I get older I feel the bones aching more than when I was younger.

Which side of Edmonton are you based?
We have been keeping an eye on property etc out along Highway 16 near wildwood/edson area.
To be honest final location will probably depend on where I can get work.
I am trying to organise the "Trade certificate exams" at the moment.
I may need some insider info sometime in the future on the where and whats of living and working in Alberti. Preferably off the dieselpage as it is not 6.2/6.5 related.

Good luck with the Truck and keep us informed.

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland
jim@jimmyt.plus.com

[snoman87]

I live south east part on edmonton ... looking to the east is good because our closer to the mountains. I take it your a trade person if you going for a trade cert.

Feel free to contact me via my email david.kirkup@telus.net, I'll give you as much info as I can.

[snoman87]

So onto some more questions ... I have found information on replacing the rear main. an anyone give me some insite into replaceing the rubber seal on the timing cover that the oil filler tube goes into.

[doncannon]

Hello All,

snoman: I added a turbo and like you as soon as i drove it had to replace the rear main seal. I ask for help from other DP members and they like always helped greatly. Someone (sorry dont remember who) said to make sure the lip on the rear main was pointed the right way. It was not that bad although I noticed the oil pump screen laying in the oil pan :eek: The worse thing about the front seal was finding a puller then finding an installer!! Sorry it has been a while since I did mine.
hope this helps,
good luck with the project (i agree with the doc working in snowmobile suits...these are my heros),
Don

[john8662]

I haven't priced out the seal on the front of the oil filler tube, but it's pretty simple to remove and replace. You first remove the oil filler tube by removing two nuts that are on studs attached to the timing cover. Then you'll rock the oil fillter tube back and forth till you get it out. Once out, you'll see how simple the seal actually is. I have had the good fortune of never having one of these things leak, as they're pretty durable. The ones I've seen leak are when people add RTV to the seal or to the oil filler tube during re-installation.

The rear main seal isn't too bad of a task. You'll need the new felpro rear main seal for a 2 piece rear main. The original seal is likely a rope seal, every 6.2 I've had apart has had the rope seal. So for a turbo engine you're best off with the neoprene (or whatever it's made of) seals.

[snoman87]

Got the coolant leak fixed and fluids topped up. The results of my test drive are as follows; Power seems good and you can tell when the turbo boost is kicking in. If I drive it like it's a 1Ton CC 4x4 then the boost is at about 2-3psi during acceleration. If I drive it like a little rice patty 4 banger boost gets up to 6-7psi during acceleration, and it gets up and goes better than the 350. I had no problem holding 120km/h even up a slight hill. The exhaust tone is very nice, I am going to straight pipe it with 3" all the way back, maybe I will go with a 4" tip for the visual effect.

The engine seems to be running good but turbo is leaking oil into the intake. There is a far amount of oil lining the inside of the ATS Pressure Chamber

http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/Images/ATS_intake_oil.JPG

http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/Images/ATS_intake_inside.JPG

After driving it I can tell the loud ticking noise, that had me worried is coming from the bell housing area. It must be something on the flywheel striking the inspection cover ... not biggy it will go away smile.gif

I ordered a new vacuum pump and timing cover grommet today. The turbo seal issue will have to wait until I get some cash to take it in and get it R&R'd but at least for now I can drive the beast again smile.gif

http://www3.telus.net/gmc62td/Images/vac_pump.JPG

[ 01-16-2006, 10:58 AM: Message edited by: snoman87 ]

[rumpity_z28]

my truck made the same noise coming from the bellhousing area,i never bothered checking it out and now it broken down.
tranny is slipping eratically,im thinking the noise possibly cracked flexplate?took out the tranny pump?

Let me know if you find where the noise is coming from.

[snoman87]

I have a SM465 manual transmission and the noise is barley noticable now ... I am now suspecting the inspection cover. Mostly because I has a little trouble installing it properly.

[ 01-26-2006, 06:42 AM: Message edited by: snoman87 ]

[rumpity_z28]

ok mine is a 700r4 must be the flexplate
congrats on a great conversion smile.gif

[ 01-24-2006, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: rumpity_z28 ]