New LongBlock won't start IP Timing???

[FWBennett]

OK it took me longer than I hoped but I FINALLY have my new long-block installed but I can't get it started!!!
It's a new longblock so I assume I've got compression, Glow Plugs have juice, starter turns it over nice, I did the anti-airlock - weep the injectors thing on the entire driver's side (the turbo prevents me from doing the passenger side.) Since it's a Long block many of my external parts have bee swapped over - I installed timing gears, the IP pump is semi-new (less that 5K miles) I did install rebuilt 6.5 injectors into my 6.2 - I understand that the timing is more precise with the 6.5 injectors.
I'm suspecting fuel. If someone else has a better suggection PLEASE speak up!
How important is the Injector Pump's timing? The IP is pretty much in the middle - do the motors pretty much run throughout the movement of the IP pump? OR do I need to move it some B4 I try to start it again? Any suggestion to which way to move it next? Also the 6.5 injectors are slightly shorter so installing the injector lines required slightly more pressure to attach the line to the injector - could this change the angle of the ball of the line to the injector enough to block fuel flow into the injector?
Thanks for any and all help!!!

[britannic]

You should be seeing a healthy spray from a loosened injector nut, try loosening it a little more to be sure.

As for timing, did the engine builder reset the block timing mark to correspond to the gears and crank?

[FWBennett]

Hmm - one of the nuts I thought I had pretty loose - I could turn it either way with my fingers - since I'm the one turning the key, it's a bit hard to see but I'm thinking all I got was weeping, so I guess I need to go up-line and make sure the fuel filter is air-blead?
As for the engine builder resetting the BLOCK timing mark - NO it was shipped to me so the builder never saw the balancer etc. on the motor. Can I have a Professional mechanic reset it?
Just for my piece of mind - the pin on the IP pump goes through the OBLONG hole in the timing gear - right? I'm pretty sure that's the ONLY way it fit - self doubt creeps in....
- thanks!

[john8662]

Yep, the key on the pump goes through the oval looking hole, all the bolts won't go in otherwise.

[britannic]

The engine rebuilder should have set it as a matter of course, then you can be sure that your pump is baselined as per GM's original (but not optimal) spec.


Originally posted by FWBennett:
Hmm - one of the nuts I thought I had pretty loose - I could turn it either way with my fingers - since I'm the one turning the key, it's a bit hard to see but I'm thinking all I got was weeping, so I guess I need to go up-line and make sure the fuel filter is air-blead?
As for the engine builder resetting the BLOCK timing mark - NO it was shipped to me so the builder never saw the balancer etc. on the motor. Can I have a Professional mechanic reset it?
Just for my piece of mind - the pin on the IP pump goes through the OBLONG hole in the timing gear - right? I'm pretty sure that's the ONLY way it fit - self doubt creeps in....
- thanks!

[dieselbegreat]

Are you getting any fumes/raw fuel vapor at the tailpipe? Loosen up some or all of the injector lines and crank a couple of times until fuel has squirted out and tighten them down again. Then see if she'll fire. You might want to plug the engine heater in before you try again. Air in the fuel line could be the culprit and just needs a lot of cranking to purge it all. Parking the truck facing downhill helps if that is the case.

[FWBennett]

Well the Suburban is parked up-hill till I can get it started. I blead the fuel filter, loostened 3 of the nuts on the driver's side Finger-loose (should I try disconnecting them?)- put a papertowel around each one - I'm not getting a spray or a gush - 10-15sec cranking will get me a spot on the paper towel about 1-2 inches in diamater. Several times it felt like it ALMOST started! - then just ran out of battery juice. I didn't get a chance to check the tail pipe. I'm getting quite a bit of smoke up the oil filler so some fuel is getting burnt! The block didn't come with a block heater and I was in a hurry to get the motor in so thought I'd put one of those recycling ones in the heater hose types - here in Northern CA it's in the 40's and 50's.
Where do I go from here?

[5.7L oldsdiesel]

Just a thought,but you may need to give it a sniff of starting fluid to get it up and running.Just don't use too much.Just a light spray over the intake while you crank it over.I had to do it with my olds diesel to get it running after i replaced the injection pump.Just be sure the glow plugs are disconnected if you decide to use starting fluid.Starting fluid is fine as long as you don't inject too much at one time.Make sure everything is bled and give it a try.

[FWBennett]

Ahh - I was wondering about starting fluid - and was concerned about the glow plugs.
Did I read someplace that WD40 could be used as a starting fluid for Diesels? Does the Glow Plug caution still apply?
Yeah - kind of shot myself in the foot on the Blok-Heater - I ordered a "Tank-type" from JC Whitney Last night.
- thanks!

[FWBennett]

Is there an easy (one place) to disconnect the glow plugs? Or do I need to pull each one?

[john8662]

You really shouldn't use starting fluid on a 6.2. You should be able to get it started on a warm day, two fully charged batteries and a great cranking starter. Go ahead and bleed off the lines some more, until they're really dripping, a little weeping isn't going to cut it, it needs to be like a leak. Once you get to that point, tighten them all back up, wait for the glow, crank it over. Make sure you have the pink wire on the pump secure. Of the two engine swaps I've done, it takes awhile to get it going, I also noticed that flooring it didn't help, but just 1/4 to 1/2 throttle was enough, your results may vary.

[FWBennett]

OK - talk to me about a pink wire on the pump. When Facing the front of the motor - I've got 2 connectors that are molded together and connect via a coupling connector on the left then I've got a green wire with 2 connectors on it one goes to the far back and one goes on the right then there's sort of a BROWN that is by itself closer to the front of the pump below one of the green wire connectors. Maybe the Brown is a faded/discolored pink?

[NH2112]

The fuel solenoid (pink) wire is thicker than the other wires on the injector pump, maybe a 10-gauge as opposed to the 14 or 16-gauge green wires for cold advance and fast idle solenoid.

[FWBennett]

OK but I assume that i's supposed to get 12v with the ignition on right?

[john8662]

Yes, it's the ignition wire, you can turn the key on, go outside the burb, disconnect the big wire on the injection pump (could be pink or brown from oil or age) and then connect it again, you should hear a click. Thats the fuel solenoid working inside the pump. Verify that you have this wire on the right spot on the pump too, it should be on the connector nearest to the front of the truck.

[dieselbegreat]

You may want to think about drifting it from where it is so it faces downhill. You need FUEL, good starter and FULL BATTERIES. All it takes is a pinhole in your fuel line somewhere underneath and it'll suck air in all night between tries. If you don't have fuel dripping pretty good out of those loose injector lines, you still have air and it won't be enough fuel pulse to start when you tighten them.

[FWBennett]

Well I've got the Aux. Electric fuel pump and the filter is plenty primed so I think I gotta bleed the IP some more and a warm day or if my block heater ever gets here - that should help!

[FWBennett]

Wahoo!!! Got it started FINALLY! - Blead the injectors I could get to REALLY good - it fired for a few seconds then quit! Ahh - air in the fuel? - SURE enough in my haste I'd pushed the fuel line from the tank to the lift pump on but didn't tighten the clamp - took a few more cranks and it stayed started - now I've got 3 oil leaks to repair UGH!
There sems to be quite a bit of Blow-by - I assume that's cuz the rings haven't seated (how long does that take?) and/or the timing may be off.
What do you guys do about that gasket around the Oil-Filler tube? - I put a new one in but is seems to leak more than the old worn one! Are there different sizes? Can you blob some silicone around there without it looking too getto?
thanks for all your help!

[TimK]

I have never heard of timing causing blow by but rings that haven't seated yet will cause a lot of blow by. The excessive crankcase pressure could also be causing the leak around the filler tube. It could be trying to force the crankcase pressure out anyway it can. As the rings seat, this may go away.

If it was my truck, I would try a blob of silicone on the outside of the tube. Placing it on the tube where it enters the oil pan could result in some of it getting in the oil. Of course I have been accused of using too much silicone. I have even used it on a head gasket to seal around the cooling gallery and have been mocked on this web site for doing so. But hey, that's my opinion.

It's good to hear you got it running. I bet that was rush when it finally fired up.

TimK

[TanM998]

First... never use starter fluid in a diesel... it makes a really really bad rod knocking sound due to pre mature ignition.

Second, if your truck continues to have difficulties starting, and its a new engine, try pouring a little bit of fuel in the intake manifold before you crank just to make sure it will run... then if it does remove the inlet to the injection pumpand crank until you see fuel comming out. WHen you do, immediately put the line back on the pump and it should start shortly afterward (~5 sec).

3rd, if you have oil leaks wouldn't they be covered by the engine builder? I would certainly think they would, but then again it depends on what they gave you as a long block. Gasket sealer works great for resealing most things, so you could use that...

Scott
'85 Tan M998 W/CTIS

[FWBennett]

Thanks for the tips! The oil leaks are my responsability - the biggest one (that I finally got to during a break in the weather) was at the oil pan . The Long block required me to swap all my peripherals including Oil Pan, Valve covers etc.
Now it's off to the shop to have the timing set. Can anyone describe for me how thw timing on our diesel's is set? On my old Peugeot you set it staticaly with a dial indicator on the piston (head off) and a dial indicator on the fuel pump.

[Robyn]

The service books dont really tell you how to do a proper timing job on a 6.2/6.5.
You need a luminocity probe that goes into the #1 glow plug hole and this triggers a timing light and you can then set the timing just like a gasser.
This equipment is spendy and thats why most shops just line up the marks on top by the pump and let it go. If the thing rattles to much they back it off a tad and if its a slug they bump it up a little.
Snapon makes the tools to do the timing but have deep pockets when you go looking at buying those tools.
Hope this helps some. If you can find a shop that can do this its worth a few $$ to have them set the timing. THEN REMARK YOUR PUMP HOUSING so if you need to take it off you can get back to proper timing..
Another note. I always leave the glow plugs out on a new start up and then prime the system till I have fuel with no air to the IP and then hook it up and spin the engine till I have fuel mist blowing out the glow plug holes. The engine spins fast and easy this way and you dont eat starters or batteries. Reinstall the glow plugs and booooom your going. ;)

[ 01-12-2005, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: Robyn C52 ]