Engine ID and application drive train parts

[Clay Folk]

I am submitting a letter of complaint to an outfit I had purchased a 6.2L, 5-speed transmission, and a transfer case from. The truck these items were going in was a 1989 3500 crew cab. Long story short: The drive train parts I don't feel were made for the application of a 1 ton crew cab and I am not sure that the engine did come out of an '89.

1. 6.2L engine: I was told it came from a 1989 truck. I found a tag wired to where the alternator would live that had "1983 Chevy van" and a VIN of 2GBEG25C9D4106637, which on carfax comes up as a '83 Chevy van. Is the engine from a 1989 truck or a van?
a. CDR valve located beside the intake manifold, half way down the head, not in front of the head.
b. Dip stick goes across engine.
c. Casting number of 14022660 on the block, the engine does have an EGR.
d. No temperature inhibit switch on passenger side, I thought it was on all post '84 engines?
e. The model 80 fuel filter was mounted on the intake manifold; this may have been done by someone, though.
f. Anything else that would indicate this came from a '89 truck or '83 van?

2. Getrag MG5 transmission, General Motors part number 8672066: I was told this would be suitable for my truck, but the only info I have found says it was put in 1500 and 2500 trucks with 4.3 - 4.8L engines with max of 285 ft/lbs of torque. Is this true? Any other factual info I can cite in my letter would be much appreciated.

3. NP 241C transfer case: The research I did said it was put in Suburbans and Tahoes. Is it suitable for a 1-ton truck? Any other factual info I can cite in my letter would be much appreciated.

Anyway, this outfit tells me this drive train is suitable for my truck and I have no reason to return them. I already got two bad engines from them, the intake manifold was full of water on one and the other had lots of paste-like, rust-colored deposit in the water passage in the head. The glow-plug controller had not been screwed in in years. I told them I wanted my money back and now they want 10% of the $4,558. The deal we agreed on to begin with was a rebuilt 6.2L with IP, lines and injectors; this was changed on me without notice to a motor they had in their yard (the one with water in the intake). They took it back then gave me one with the paste-like deposit. They could not tell me for sure the mileage on either engine.

Thanks for any help.

[arveetek]

I'll try and answer a few of your questions.

The CDR location (in center of passenger side valve cover) indicates that it is from an '89 (or is it 88?) or newer vehicle. Older vehicles had them located on the front of the engine.

EGR in the intake indicates it is a C code engine, from a 1/2 or 3/4 ton. As far as I know, all 1 tons had J code engines with no EGR.

Temp inhibit switches were only installed from the factory for a few years. So no temp. inhibit switch doesn't really mean anything. In '85, they stopped using the screw-in type of glow controller on the rear of the driver's side head and went with an improved electronic type that sits in a bracket near to the same location.

I don't know anthing about the transmission you described. All 1 tons that I've ever seen had an NV4500 5 speed for a manual tranny madey by New Venture Gear.

The 241 is a later model TC. I don't know about what vehicles it was used in for sure.

Sounds to me like you have the drivetrain from an '89 1/2 ton.

Casey

[Dieselboy]

The NP241 came in 89-91 Blazers and Suburbans. The speedo output was mechanical in 89, and electronic in 90 & 91. It's a good chain driven transfer case capable of handling a good 1000 lb. ft. It's the later version of the NP208, but with a better oiling system and superior low range. Even later model 241s that came behind the 12v and 24v Cummins, had a larger output shaft, and a few other addons to make it withstand 1200 lb. ft. or so.

[gavio]

Howdy, Clay Folk:

Welcome over to the diesel page, by the way.

When we had our exchange over at the Veggie Forums, I forgot to mention the fuel filter. It was mounted on the intake manifold on vans and mounted on the firewall in truck applications, as far as I know. It's another piece of evidence that it was transplanted from a van into the '89 truck from which it was then removed before being sold to you.

Also, check the length of the injectors - if they're short (I don't have the exact measurement handy, but I could get it if you need it) then it came from a van.

Doesn't make it unsuitable, as such, but being a "c" code engine with the EGR and all (all 10 and 20 series diesel vans used "c" code engines) it will not have as much punch as you might want with a heavy load in that big one-ton.

Well, unless you start monkeying with it - all becomes fixable then! :D

[BARRAZA]

I may have missed something in your post, but $4500 seems way high for a used take out 6.2 engine and drivetrain. Heck, I'll deliver my 6.2, turbo 400, np208, less than 50k mile, 5/4 ton cucv to your door and hand over the keys for that much. First,I think you need to post who this vendor is and what response you get from them. Second, if they dont make it right, go get a lawyer for the next letter. Sending you two junkyard engines after you bought a rebuilt one is criminal.

PS I'm serious about delivering mine :D

[Clay Folk]

Is the length of the injectors obviously shorter? Can longer ones fit in the holes...could they have been swapped out?

[Clay Folk]

BARRAZA,
LKQ, CORP. in Savannah. I can post the letter of complaint if you want the details. It covers the whole story.

[arveetek]

It's a little late now, but you should have gone with the Diesel Depot. They're in Georgia too. They specialize in rebuilt GM diesels, as well as tested used engines ready to go.

http://www.thedieselpage.com/vendors/avant.htm

Casey

[Clay Folk]

I have returned the parts to LKQ in Savannah. Well, I dropped them off at a the drop-off point in Beaufort for them to come get them. It's been over a week and they still have not gotten them. I am in the process of rebuilding the donor truck engine now. If the starter bolt hole can be fixed, it broke off part of the block.

[NH2112]

In the 80s (1984, I think) all manufacturers starting using standardized 17-digit VINs, with the first digit indicating country of manufacture. Anything made in the USA will have a 1 or a 4 for the first digit, so your engine's donor truck was apparently made in Canada (my '85 truck was, and the VIN begins with 2.) Can't the block casting numbers be looked up to determine date of manufacture?

I've seen 1-tons come with NP205s as late as 1990 (haven't looked at any later ones) but I know the 241HD was used after the 205 was dropped.

As far as the Getrag tranny goes, everything I've heard about it tells me I'd rather have a case of the clap than a Getrag in anything bigger than a 1/2 ton. It's most often been compared, strength-wise, to the NVG3500. However, I don't know what an 89 1-ton WOULD have used for a manual tranny. Dodge was still using the NP435, but I'm not sure if GM and Ford had gone to 5-speeds at the time.

[Clay Folk]

NH2112,
I called a machine shop in Beaufort that has the casting numbers, no real help. That number was cast in "c" and "j" in 82-86 and 87-93

[Clay Folk]

O yeah, Phil,
Do you know of any place I can find info on the Getrag? I have to make the case and have documented proof that the Getrag is not suitable for my truck; contrary to what LKQ says.

[NH2112]

I'd look in a service manual like Chilton or Haynes, or maybe go to a dealership and talk with a parts or service tech who knows the older stuff. If you can get part numbers for the different transmissions used, it might really help a lot.

[NH2112]

Well I did a bit of research and here's some of what I came up with.

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/gmpow/mg5.htm

This one gives specs on the MG5 tranny but not years it was used, which apparently IS the NVG3500. With an input torque rating of 285 lb-ft, it sure isn't meant for use behind anything but I6s and the mildest V8s.


http://www.drivetrain.com/transmanuallisting.html

This one shows the SM465 4-speed as being used up to 1989, and it would definitely be used in a 1-ton.


Pretty much everything else seemed geared more towards cars, or newer vehicles. I didn't think it would help you that much to demonstrate that they didn't use it in anything bigger than a 2500 in 2003.

[Clay Folk]

Phil,
You are right, 2003 numbers won't help the case too much. Thanks for your help. Good idea on a dealership.

[Clay Folk]

I just saw on accuratediesel.com that '88 and newer truck use short injectors. This engine that is reportedly an '89 has the same length injectors as my '82. Is this another indication that it is not an '89?

[britannic]

Possibly, only if they're original, the long and short body fine thread injectors are interchangeable.