DB-2 problem...not 60G

[Kaitsu]

After two years of using 60G's, its sounds not so easy morning start anymore :confused: . OK, I have done mod. as was explained in 2000 Feature articles.

But, difference is now that new plug resistance is about 0.8-0.9 Ohm, mine in engine gives ~2 Ohm each... more resistance => less current.

What do you think about it?

[ 09-17-2003, 04:52 AM: Message edited by: Kaitsu ]

[Lonewolf]

If the glowplugs are drawing current and heating up it should be ok......how did you measure resistance and where? Has anything else changed? A little more information would help.......

[whatnot]

You should be able to test them with an amp meter. Put one lead on the battery + terminal and the other on the glowplug connection. They are supposed to draw 16 amps and drop dow to about 12 I think after a couple seconds.

[Kaitsu]

Well, I did measure all plugs again one by one, wires off and they all were 0.8-1.0 Ohm like new ones. So my first measure was wrong because of dirt...

My problem seem to be related something internal problem in pump. Few months ago it started to blow smoke (blue / black, not blowing motor oil) even with "light" acceleration.
I have tried to play with pump advance without change.
Air filter is Amsoil, fuel filter changed.

I adjusted fuel metering screw about 1/3 turn "smaller" and it's better now.

One thing more, I don't hear so clear difference when HPCA is activated..could it be stuck or...??

Well, I must test it with cold engine by pulling HPCA wire on / off to be sure.

P.S Full pump repair here is close to 1000$...

[britannic]

You can test the HPCA by simply supplying it with 12v (rear pump terminal with green wire) even with the engine hot and running (don't drive it like this though, as the timing will be 6 degrees advanced).

You should hear an immediate clattering and the engine may momentarily speed up before the governor kicks in to bring it down.

When cold, 12v should be present at the terminal with the ignition on and the fast idle solenoid should also be energized.

[Kaitsu]

Well, supplying 12v to HPCA does not make any difference when engine running (hot).
When I power it without engine running, I can hear solenoid making "click" sound (fast idle disconnected), so how is solenoid working and what should happen in pump?

When I adjusted fuel metering screw, I tried to test "weight retainer ring" as is explained in Haynes diesel manual... it did not move back when I moved it about 1/16 inch left or right...

Any good tips to check and test??
I want to learn as much as possible. :cool:

[britannic]

Your HPCA is defective, this can be caused by particles from a defective governor weight retainer ring (early versions didn't do well with lower sulphur levels in the reformulated US diesel) that's broken up.

Take the injection pump cover off and inspect the check valve for restrictions and check the solenoid operation.

[mhagie]

KAITSU,WHY PAY $1000 IF YOU CAN DO WITHOUT YOUR TRUCK FOR A LITTLE WHILE JUST REMOVE PUMP UPS IT TO THE STATES FOR A REMAN AT A LOT LESS COST.

[Kaitsu]

When I adjusted fuel screw last time, everything was clean and the small glass ball in return line (is it glass..?)seem to be ok.

Okay, that time my thoughts were how to adjust it right so I didn't look all parts knowing what to look for. But no rubber parts etc. could be found. I even tried few days ago 5% mix with two-stroke oil in fuel => no change.

I think this pump is rebuilted 4 years ago when they swapped engine in.

If I take cover off, shutting solenoid comes with cover, can you see HPCA solenoid or do I need to take more other parts off??

To buy a new pump, example:

Thank you for the inquiry. The pump is $357.00 with a $300.00 core exchange - since this is overseas, we only sell these outright, so that makes the price of the pump $657.00. Shipping to you will be between $50.00 and $75.00. We only accept wire transfers for overseas shipments which carry a $50.00 transfer fee, so the total of the order will be around $800.00.
Thank you for visiting www.usdieselparts.com. (http://www.usdieselparts.com.) If we can assist you further in any way, please email me at info@usdieselparts.com or call our parts department at 1-800-823-4444. You can order online on our secure page at https://secure.usdieselparts.com/secure.cfm.
:confused: :confused: :confused:

Wow, what an article...
"DB2-4911 -the magic, the myth, the mystery"

This brings up few questions, can my HPCA problem be related somehow to advance /retard timing problem when driving...?? I don't know why mine is supplying too much fuel suddenly.
I turned screw 1/4 smaller..it's bearable but...
If I drive 40-50 mph and accelerate strong, it makes hugh smoke behind... if I accelerate heavily from traffic lights (full throttle) it may not smoke that much.
So it seems different every day :confused:

We need to take our cars every year to inspection, and believe it or not... diesel cars will be tested full throttle 3 times / each about 4-5 seconds. Engine takes about ~4000rpm, and they check how much smoke is coming out... :eek:

[ 09-17-2003, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Kaitsu ]

[DmaxMaverick]

Kaitsu

Looks like you have enough help with the diagnosis on your problem, so I won't add to it.

However, getting the pump replaced should be easier than that. If you are a trusting sort, it would be nothing to have someone that lives across the street from the distributor (there's got to be a member here) to do the leg work for you. You ship the pump to this person, he exchanges it for a new pump and sends it to you. All it would cost is the price of the pump and shipping and probably much less expensive than dealing with with a distributor/rebuilder. I don't see the logic of penalizing a person so much because of where they call home. It could be more complicated than that, but why? Am I missing something here?

[Kaitsu]

Hi Dmax!

Yes, I believe there is somebody who can help me to get my pump replaced in a way you said.

But for the moment I can drive and I'm a little bit curious of my pump condition so I'm not in that point (at least not yet... ;) )

Anyway, that will be best way (and cheapest) for me...

[Kaitsu]

Okay, checked HPCA solenoid and check valve, they work perfectly. No signs of any rubber parts etc. I can hear very small change when activating it when engine running.
Again I tested weight retainer "wheel", it moves 3-4mm left and right but always stays in position I move it. Should it have center point and return back to it if you move it left or right??

One question more, if you take off return line tube from pump cover and put the tube to your mouth and try to blow air to it...??
It was not easy to blow air to it...?!! Really had to blow hard. Last winter I changed return line (6mm inner diameter) and placed short tube right next to intake pipe end in fuel tank.
I need to check tube all the way back if there is slight blockage.
What will it change if return line is not free?

[britannic]

Here's a quick way to be sure that the HPCA is really working and not being affected by too much return line pressure:

Fit a tube to the HPCA outlet nozzle and a tube to the inlet where the original tube from the HPCA is usually connect.

Run those tubes into a gallon or larger fuel container and fire up the engine. This time your engine should clatter when voltage is applied to the HPCA. If it does, then you need to get the return line cleared of restrictions, because it's going to affect your overall engine timing as well as the HPCA.

Reference the governor ring assembly in the rear of the pump, test it with the following procedure:

Use a screwdriver (carefully so as not to scrape any filings off into the pump) and rotate the governor weight retainer in both directions, it shouldn't move more than 1/16" in either direction and should always return to its original position. If it does this, then its still serviceable. Anymore travel and/or it doesn't return, it's failed, you'll need to get it rebuilt or find a replacement pump on eBay, etc.

[Peter J. Bierman]

Kaitsu, I you want another pump, let me know.
In a wile I have a spare as I ordered a new one from peninsular ( 300 HP version ) and the one coming off is in good condition and a lot cheaper than 700 $.
I am in Europe so shipment would be a lot les and only one way.

Let me know

Peter

[gmctd]

Assuming you've already checked the housing pressure to be around 10psi at idle, try pulling the top of the advance rocker arm (on the passenger side) outward, away from the pump housing - it will only move less than 1/2". You should hear increased Diesel rattle if the advance piston is functional.

jd

[Kaitsu]

Ok, I will test it tomorrow.

Yesterday's testing, when I pressed advance rocker arm from the bottom toward pump, engine run that time very badly and with lower rpm. So that was advancing timing? About degrees (same as HPCA 3-5 deg)? If so...why it sound like choking badly or is it normal at idle?

How is return line in fuel tank in original diesel? Pipe same lenght, close to the bottom as intake pipe?

Peter, that could be a good idea. smile.gif
Tell me more... kai.naatsaari@thermo.com

[ 09-19-2003, 12:19 AM: Message edited by: Kaitsu ]

[gmctd]

Yes that was too much advance for idle condition, but indicated the advance piston is functional, which is what you were testing for. That's a trick the old hands use, to see if pump advancement is required to compensate for timing chain wear, and such. Done incrementally, it can duplicate HPCA advance conditions when HPCA is not functional.
If the advance piston-to-bore clearance is too great, advance can vary uncontrollably, causing black smoke when fuel is injected too soon or too late for complete combustion.
A dirty air filter can cause the same symptoms, probably more so in colder weather.

The smaller of the two fuel lines is the return path. You might also check to see if it is connected correctly from tank to fuel return line on engine..

jd

[Kaitsu]

Okay, now I tested it by connecting fuel return line to canister and it had no effect how it's running. Started it as a cold and when idling, tested by taking HPCA wire on/off (fast idle active at all time) and I could hear a little higher rpm when HPCA activated (but only very little)...so some effect it has when activated.

So there is something wrong internally because testing weight retainer fails.
Thanks to all for your good tips, pump repair/change is coming... :cool:

Regards, Kaitsu

[More Power]

A few years ago I had a 6.2 that started hard when cold or moderately warm, smoked white pretty bad once it did start, and didn't produce a lot of power once reaching operating temperature. Also the typical diesel rattle was pretty muted, which indicated a retarded injection timing.

This was the original 6.2 that came in what would become the Power Project truck.

I attempted to advance the pump timing by 1/16", which typically causes 3 degrees of timing change. It made virtually no difference in engine rattle. So, I advanced it another 1/16". This produced a change in engine sound, but not what more advanced timing should produce. It just was an unhappy running engine.

Next I measured the timing chain slack, and discovered more than 4 degrees of slop in the timing set (4 degrees was the most I could measure without opening the front of the engine). This was the problem. At idle, the actual injection timing was bouncing all over the place, making it very difficult to produce a change in timing or rattle based on pump rotation.

MP

[Kaitsu]

Hmmm...what is the easiest way to check chain?

Turning the pump once 1/16 or twice doesn't make clear difference as last summer when I tested pump timing...
I have Haynes 6.2 Diesel Manual, I think it's explained there but is there good tips also??

[britannic]

Kaitsu: remove the oil filler swan neck from the timing cover. You should be able to see the IP driven gear (depends on how your engine/car hood area is configured).

Now move the crankshaft anti-clockwise until the harmonic balancer timing mark is at the 12 or 8 ATDC timing indicators. Now slowly rotate the crankshaft clockwise until you see the IP driven gear move and note how far the balancer timing mark has moved when it does.

This will give you a rough and ready idea - anything more than 4 degrees is an indication you need to replace the chain.

[Kaitsu]

Thanks, this is good tip. I'll check it.

Kaitsu