6.2 to 6.5 swap

[Thermal Jock]

Considering installing a NA 6.5 from a rolled truck into my 87 Suburban. 6.5 has mechanical injection pump. Trying to trade on old '59 body I have for the motor. Not sure about the external parts. My 6.2 runs but I'd like more towing power, and I've got 220,000 on it now, and know it's gonna be time soon.....
Would it be better to go with the NA 6.5 or try to put my Banks turbo on it? (Only getting 5-6psi boost). Any other complications I need to look for?

[cschneider]

The 6.5 really isn't going to make much of a difference unless its got significantly less mileage. It sounds like your power problems stem from bad compression and/or poor fuel delivery. I would start there before you put a whole bunch of time into the swap only to see a small improvement.

[CleviteKid]

Put the Banks turbo on the 6.5. With the more modern injection pump and injectors on the 6.5, and the pump turned up 1/4 turn or so, you will really like the results.

But don't go turning up the pump unless and until you have an Exhause Gas Temperature (EGT) gauge installed, to keep from frying pistons and head gaskets.

Dr. Lee :cool:

[TimK]

A couple of months ago I finished installing a new 6.5L with mechanical pump and a new Banks turbo kit into my 85 sub. What a kick in the pants. The amount of power I have makes me giddy. I never had a diesel engine this fresh with so much power. With the old 6.2 NA I never new what I was missing.

Besides a lot more power then I used to have, I also noticed this engine runs a lot quieter. I have a TH400 and the RPM's are about 2900 at 65 mph. With the old engine and dual exhaust the droning sound from the engine would drive you nuts. I am guessing the quieter operation with the new set up is probably due to the engine timing be correct and the single exhuast system. I have owned Subs with both the TH400 and the 700R4. The noise from both at idle and lower speed were about the same but at hiway speeds the Sub with the TH400 was really loud.

Another note: The Banks kit was pretty easy to put together. I didn't have any problems fitting components or exhaust pieces. I did have to weld up some brackets for hanging the rear part of the exhaust to the truck but that was minor. Everything else went together ok. I was pretty happy with the kit.

The motor I bought was from the Diesel Service Group in Sasketoon Canada. Once again, I have had no problems with the engine. I am about 1000 miles into the break in period.

TimK

[Thermal Jock]

OK, drove 200 miles today to see the truck. Found a 97 6.5 motor w/90k miles. Truck cared for well right until he rolled it. Still runs strong!
Worried about the electronic inj pump, vacuam for the tranny and turbo, amd wiring for them and the ECM. I have a TH400 tranny, not sure about the TV adjustment.
Can I trade in the elct. IP for a manual one? This 97 has a turbo, but do to confinement I'll prolly leave the Banks on. I assume it's all been done, I searched and got great info, but I'd like to know especially if I've got to get a manual pump. Thanks for all the great posts!

[john8662]

You'll basically strip the engine down to the long block. Remove the intake, exhaust manifolds all the accessories, the water pump will also have to be swapped out. The only thing 6.5 that you'll keep will be the engine itself and injectors. Let me know if you get the whole engine complete, I'll be interested in the turbo stuff if you aren't and the electronic stuff too. You are correct in keeping your banks turbo over the 6.5 turbo equipment, as it won't fit in the truck without some A/C mods.

But here it is the things you'll have to sort out (with a little help from us)

-oil cooler line ports on the 97 block are different size than whats on the 6.2, there are adaptors from the dealer available.

-The harmonic balancer is different to account for the crank position sensor inside the timing cover. You would probably do best to use your 6.2 timing cover. I don't know about the balancer, you could buy a new 6.2 balancer to be safe. But you'll have to use the 6.2 timing cover. Not too bad of a swap.

-Use the 6.2 injection pump and lines
-Use ALL the brackets and accessories from your 6.2 on the 6.5, they'll all mount right up, all the holes are there.

-The CDR valve (PCV) is on the valve cover of the 6.5, you can use that with the banks turbo setup, or use the 6.2 valve cover in place of that, and use the 6.2 setup.

-You'll have to pull the sensor in the place of where a vacuum pump could reside, you'll want the vacuum pump to control the TH400 and Hvac controls inside.

-You'll have to plug the oil port on the front valley of the engine where the turbo was fed oil. And depending on where the oil pressure sensor/switch is located on that engine, you might have to buy some brass fittings to make your oil pressure sensor work.

Thats about it, some work, but it will work for you. Just make sure this engine is out of a truck/suburban/blazer/tahoe chassis, not out of a Gvan or hummer (those 6.5's are dramatically different).

Good luck!

[ 10-11-2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: john8662 ]

[Thermal Jock]

You guys are awesome--- posts are fantastic.
I did the deal. Trailering the 59 Apache rust bucket out and he'll have the engine pulled this weekend.
I wonder if I ought to get a mechanical pump (4911?) and mount it prior to installing the motor. New oil pump? Test injectors and glow plugs.
SO, the TH 400 needs the vacuam pump mounted on the IP. Can I assume the 6.2's will bolt up?
And the 6.5 water pump and crank will take a 6.2 harmonic balancer (new) and v-belt pulleys?
Should I get a new oil cooler or adapt to the old one? And I'll probably have to adapt the oil lines for the Banks. That's probably about 1/2 the issues, SEEMS doable. Here we go----

[Thermal Jock]

Doesn't the water pump have to get switched out? Does the 6.2 WP provide enough flow for the 6.5?
I'm missing something here-- can I leave the belt system in it?
Thanks!!

[dieseldummy]

The 6.5 water pump has a reverse rotation from the 6.2. If you want to use the v-belt setup then you need to switch out, if using the serpentine then use the 6.5 pump.

[john8662]

Yep, just as dieseldummy said, you'll swap out the waterpump on the 6.5 because the waterpumps on all 6.5's were driven by a serpentine belt. Some 6.2's were driven by serpentine belt too, which is counter-clockwise rotation. The 80's 6.2 trucks (up to 87) and suburbans (up till 91 for the suburban and blazer) were v-velt driven, which is clockwise rotation.

I would go ahead and replace the injection pump while you're doing the work. get a DB2 4911 injection pump, or have your current pump rebuilt to 4911 specs and fuel calibration, that way it's already setup for your banks turbo. Use the 6.5 injectors too! You'll have to use the injection lines from the 6.2 injection pump because the lines that are on an electronic 6.5 have a larger size connector on the injection pump side.

using the 6.5 injection pump and injectors will net you more boost, as well as timing the engine.

Sounds like you're getting a deal with that trade.

[Jgreemo]

I did the same swap as TimK, also getting the new motor from DSG. Great bunch of guys up there and the power N/A was much better than stock 6.2. After installing the Banks kit (took 3 days for various reasons, but fit together perfectly) the power gain was substantial. DSG turned up the pump before shipping it to me, but I am considering turning it up a bit (please see my post.)

One thing, and this is a big one. Double check when you reset your TV cable on the tranny or you risk burning it up due to the power increase. I reset mine but due to a faulty cable, it did not adjust and the tranny slipped and burned some clutches. Expensive lesson learned, but now my 700R4 is upgraded.

Good luck and enjoy.
Jon

Forgot one thing, you can add a high output water pump and I would double check your radiator to make sure it's clear. Mine was ready for the dumpster.

[Thermal Jock]

Thanks to responses, searches, the reference section, and a couple of phone calls things are making sense. You guys are great.
Have a new HO water pump (v-belt) on the way from Peninsular Diesel. I believe I can use the 6.5 coolin crossover and upgrade to dual t-stats in the future if needed.
Trying to decide if I want to rebuild the 6.2 IP to 4911 specs, just use the pump as is, or figure out a way to purchase a 4911 w/out the boss --er--I mean my loving wife --- find out. Anyone w/ pros-cons on which pump? I assume mileage vs. power?
Wondering about the torque converter/flex plate. It should bolt up fine, but maybe I should go with an upgrade. Thanks agin.

[john8662]

Flexplate? You will use the flexplate from the 6.2 as its taylored for the TH400. Although the 6.5 probably had a 4L80E auto behind it and its really similar to the TH400. It might work, but I'd play it safe and use the 6.2 flexplate.

As far as the IP, if I had a 4911, I wouldn't hesitate to install it, I would go ahead and have your 6.2 pump built to 4911 specs, plus it will be a fresh pump for your newer engine.

Installing the newer waterpump and the dual thermostat crossover is also a smart move, it will take some modification to get the throttle cable bracket to work, cruise control will will also be an issue with the Dual stat setup.