Won't start, No Fuel, ignition switch? ECM?

[Hubert]

97 K2500 6.5td 5spd ~ 107,000 miles. No Mods, Clean air filter, fuel filter less than 3000 miles. First owner did have to replace lift pump. Its the original IP.

My truck would not start this morning. It turned over fast but did not sound like it was even trying to combust at all. No SES light.

I had this problem twice before but it finally started but not this morning.

Last time I checked and fuel came out top of filter. So I am pretty sure the lift pump is working. I'll check again. I used a little starting fluid (a conditioner with no ether or alcohol) and it tried to crank a little but wouldn't. It acts like its not getting any fuel. I sprayed the intake and ran around jumped in and waited for wait... light to go out and cranked.

The glow relays clicked on and off under hood and no check engine light. Truck normally runs fine and starts easily. I could feel a little warmth on the exhaust manifold just from the starter turning over and over trying to start so I think its warm enough just no fuel. It wasn't that cool this morning I think it would have tried to crank even with no glow plugs this morning as long as I was on the starter ?? Opinions on that ?

I have read other related posts about some kind of ignition switch not powering appropriate circuits (not the key switch - another mechanism). Anyone know anything specific on that. I did not have time to crack an injector line to see If there was fuel. I assume I can just crack loose the line and try to crank then check for fuel leak. Is it as easy as that? Do I need someone to keep cranking the engine and tighten back the line or can one person do it. Any good way to prevent damage to the fuel line or injector? Will an open end wrench work ok or do I really need the flare nut style? Is it metric or inch?

Other than some "ignition switch" what could it be? I do not have any of the other stumbling, rough running or other "ECM" type troubles. Or did mine just up and die? The truck ran fine last night no recent problems.

I read that this ignition switch will reset after 10 min. Is that with the key on run? I waited 10 min with key out and tried again but no change.

[Hye]

Go to the member's area and read "Starting an Airlocked GM Diesel". Yours may not be airlocked, but the article will tell you how to know if its getting fuel at the injectors.

[charliepeterson]

I would crack the #1 Injector line because it's the easiest one to get at. A 3/4" open end will do. Check the ECM "B" fuse in the under hood fuse box, also the F sol. fuse.

Try putting the truck in gear and holding the key in the start position. This will energize the lift pump without starting the tuck. This trick also works when changing the fuel filter for bleeding air.

A locked up lift pump can hamper starting and cause stalling issues.

The Injection pump is still under warranty until 120K. If you get the truck running and unplug the big plug going to the rear of the Injection Pump (fuel solenoid) you can set the "death code" for pump replacement.

[DennisG01]

Can't help you on most of what you said, but the ignition switch will reset itself without the key being inserted. It probably is not your problem.

[Hubert]

Thanks guys what do yall think of this:

I checked most all fuses before work and they werer fine. So I plugged in the winter block heater this morning and let it sit all day to get toasty warm. ( I thought that was a good little trick to see if it was fuel or temp related before cracking an injector line loose). Now I know 100% sure the engine was toasty warm; I could feel the valve covers were warm enough to start if it were getting fuel.

Got home used scan tool: Pass no codes read. Then I turned switch and it spun and coughed a little and then cranked up and ran fine. I let it idle 30 sec all guages fine and normal. Sounded smooth etc. I cut it off and restarted it fine. No SES light ran normal. rechecked no codes.

So I think this leads me to a glow plug or glow cycle problem right?

I have read of intermittent glow plug relay problems in other threads. Thats what I am thinking it might be now ?? Or possibly a few bad glow plugs. I'll have to read how to test them.

I am going to unplug the heater tonight then try and start it in the morning cold. Any way to check glow plugs by yourself?

[Hubert]

I left it unplugged overnight and it cranked up in the morning like it was brand new. It was a little cool maybe 60-65 ish degree F and only 2 or so seconds on the starter after the wait.. light went off. I immediately cut it off and restarted it 3 times and each time it cranked right up like normal. No white,grey, or blue smoke smooth idle and throttle response so I think all 8 cylinders are combusting properly. So Glow plugs and cycle were working fine I would say.

I am thinking more and more an intermittent glow plug relay problem? There is a main one that controls the 8 glow plugs right.

I have had this same think happen 3 times now in a little over a year. I get in to crank up the truck (engine cold) and it just spins over and over but does not start. 2 times before it was not that cold outside and it finally cranked after cranking and cranking on the starter. Then it runs and cranks fine until the next episode.

I have a code reader but couldn't get any DTC's so the obd system thinks everything is ok??

I do hear relays clicking under the hood but its hard to check anything by yourself any suggestions. I am thinking of making up some long alligator clipped lines and leaving my dmm in the truck until next time. Then I guess rig up the lines from say #1 glow plug to wire and try to read inside the truck when I turn the key on. It should read 12 volts while wait to start light on right? Then it should cylce on / off 2 times 3 sec on 3 secs off (or something close)- Open when wait to start light off ??

Any suggestions on checking the relay itself or checking something else too.

Thanks,
Hubert

[Dihrdbowti]

Just an FYI when I bought my truck it was in January in Michigan. it was running when I went to pick it up so I didn't get a chance to start it cold. I used the block heater for the most part and it always started up pretty quickly. Even on those mornings when I either forgot or didn't have access to power I let the glow plugs cycle a couple times and it started right up. Here's the kicker... all of the glow plugs on the drivers side and two on the passenger side were disconnected. Actually the connections had rusted away. So all of my starts had been starting with only two glow plugs. Just some food for thought.

[markrinker]

At 107,000 miles, and winter around the corner, I'd replace all 8 glow plugs and the relay.

While you have the patient open, 8 new injectors would be a good idea as well.

[Hubert]

Interesting Phil

Thats why it leads me to think its the main glow plug relay not energizing any glow plugs at all.

How warm does it have to be to crank up without help from any glow plug. Assume everything else good. Strong batteries spins fast and I can crank on the starter 10-15 seconds with the engine spinning over and over. Wait 20 sec and repeat. It did crank the other 2 times finally and might have this time if I hadn't gave up on it.

Or its another intermittent electronic bug? PMD problem???. I'd like to eliminate components.

Next time I will crack an injector line to rule out fuel supply problem. I haven't 100% eliminated that as the problem.

[rjwest]

Feel and listen to the Fuel shut Off solenoid.
While someone turns it on and off.

If you have another starting problem, you will have a referance for this component......

[russfixr]

With your "intermittent" starts, you're probably on the right track with glow plugs. I have, however, had recent experience loss of fuel delivery that kept mine from starting.

Just because you have fuel to your filter, it may not be making it through the fuel solenoid on top of the injection pump. My solenoid failed. I determined this by pulling it and applying 12 volts and ground directly from the battery. You should see it actuate. To make it home, I ended up using snap ring pliers to remove the valve "guts" and then reinstalled the valve body on the injection pump. It ran, but I eventually learned on this forum that it performs a safety function for runaway diesel and got it repaired under the 120k warranty. Usually, once a solenoid coil fails, it fails completely and will never work again.

Good luck

[Hubert]

I think and hope its the main glow plug relay or glow plug control module. I made up an extended test lead and measured just over 9v while the wait to start light was on - on the no. 1 cylinder glow plug wire. I just clipped to the wire connection and grounded the other lead. It read nothing when the wait ...light was off. And the truck cranked easily. So I have my baseline to compare to.

I read in my helms manual that the glow plugs are actually 6 volt heaters (operated at 12 volts).

Its cranked fine several times since and ran fine too.

I'll have to wait until it doesn't start again to check if its the same. I also have a wrench ready to loosen an injector line too.