Crossover Pipe Performance Gain [Archive]

Turbine Doc

06-28-2004, 20:46

Hi my name is Tim & I am a 6.5 power junkie, I congregate at The Diesel Page chapel for I think I am beyond help as I no longer see vehicles as adequate from their maker, my addiction is flowing over to the rest of the family as my wife now has a VW TDI & can't stand the mini-van.

Re-flash yes, crossover yes (mandrel vs crinkle bent stock pipe), wrapped or not wrapped your choice, I wrapped mine as we are not prone to road salt around here.

Before wrapping I liberally applied hi-temp header paint 3 coats, then wrapped, and painted wrap 3 coats to make it water proof, does it help I don't know for sure.

I'm thinking more heat to turbo=faster spool up, so psychologically I must be making more power faster right :D ; nevertheless my power addiction craving is temporarily sated. Mine has been on 1.5 years that way so far no adverse conditions from wrapping.

99gmccrew

06-28-2004, 22:18

Tim, member of the few, the proud, the power seekers. You've helped me out quite a bit in recent weeks. I would like to get several opinions on the heath reflash. I checked out his site and prices look very fair. In your valued opinion was the upgrade, hold on to your hat noticable. Or gee I thought it would be better.
I,ve got to get some sleep! :D

Spindrift

06-29-2004, 05:15

99,

I'm no Tim, but let me tell you what my experience has been anyway. I've read many posts on this site, and others, where someone wanted feedback on a chip or ECM that they were planning to purchase. One of the stock questions has always been, "Did you feel any seat of the pants improvement?" In my particular case, I realized a slightly more spirited response from the truck during around town driving. However, the difference in towing was HUGE. On a hill climb prior to the new ECM, I would have to drop into 3rd and struggle to maintain 40-45 mph. In addition, my EGT's would easily climb to the 1200*-1300* mark and if I didn't back off the throttle, the EGTs would continue to climb. Now, my EGTs never go above 1100* and I can climb decent grades in 4th gear. If the hill is a biggy, I'll still drop down into third but the EGTs remain more than manageable. Keep in mind, I have no method of charge-air cooling...yet. ;)

I think a unique characteristic of this ECM is that it has been designed for towing. It has the ability to produce greater power output at the EGT limit which means faster uphill towing speed with manageable EGTs. The program features a new start of injection timing curve and not just fuel. So, it produces greater power within the EGT limit.

AndyL

06-29-2004, 14:37

99,

Honestly I was hoping for more from the reflash. Besides the extra fuel (75mm^3 is the most I have seen) there are several fairly important features like the others have mentioned.

The timing curve really does make a difference in towing situations, it climbs to about 800 post turbo and kinda stops!

The added transmission line pressure makes for a better overall feel and could give the tranny a slight life extension.

From the advertised 50+HP and 170+ ft pound torque I expected more "Seat of the pants" feel. Maybe 80mm^3 would have better suited me.

But, worth the money I think.

rjschoolcraft

06-29-2004, 15:38

+50 HP and +170 lb-ft sounds inflated to me, based on what it took for me to achieve the numbers that I did. I'm not sure what my actual fuel rate is, but the TD Max chip is programmed for 80 mm^3. The chip by itself commanded 13 psi boost pressure, which is more than can be tolerated for long without intercooling. The chip helped from a seat of the pants feel, but not that significantly. With the intercooler in place, the chip added 21 HP and 36 lb-ft. Granted, I was well above stock power levels to start with during the dyno runs, but the modifications I made allow the chip to produce its potential.

I would have to see dyno testing of a bone stock truck and then add the chip/reflash in question before I would believe those numbers. I would bet that they won't hold up. I wish I had dyno data from when my truck was stock for comparison, but I don't.

AndyL

06-29-2004, 16:50

ronniejoe,

If you have no objections forward your Email to my address below. My brother lives in Eminence, maybe I could stop by and check out the Burb!

Andy

rjschoolcraft

06-29-2004, 17:28

AndyL,

E-mail on the way! ;)

Spindrift

06-29-2004, 18:04

RJ,

You must have an extremely short memory. It wasn't too long ago that you felt compelled to stick up for JK. C'mon, you're better than this.

rjschoolcraft

06-29-2004, 18:18

Well, I must not have been clear. What I'm saying is that I don't believe the claims of power and torque increases made for the Heath reflash and chip. I'm saying that JK's produced 21 HP and 36 lb-ft, which is fairly substantial. Knowing what I do about Kennedy's programming, I'm very skeptical of Heath's claim of +50 HP and +170 lb-ft from just electronics changes.

I'm concerned about inflated claims. In fact, when I ordered my chip from Kennedy, he refused to quote numbers for horsepower and torque increases. I think that's more honorable than making claims that can't possibly be backed up!

markrinker

06-29-2004, 19:25

Having both a bone-stock '94 and a modified '94/'97 powered hybrid pulling loads every day for a living, I can tell you without a doubt that the latest Heath chip, combined with proper timing, Kennedy cooling, 3.5" exhaust, and Turbo-Master only at 2" stock setting is significantly more powerful than stock.

Today I pulled 6,500 lbs over 350 miles averaging 65-70MPH and then returned on the same route even faster. I have been making this same run every week for 8 weeks with truck #1 (stock). There are many hills that would leave me with the pedal to the floor, losing speed and hanging around 60mph. Sound familiar?

There wasn't a hill today that I couldn't accelerate up, and hold 12lbs of boost the entire pull. Max observed EGT (in downpipe) was 950 degrees. Water temps never hit 200 degrees.

Bottom line, the combo of mods described and tested here by a group of enthusiasts, a work of many, ROCKs for the Chevy 6.5!!! I have never met Bill Heath or John Kennedy, but have received great advice from both of them, and purchased components from both of them.

They are helping my business succeed and making the job FUN to boot!

rjschoolcraft

06-29-2004, 19:29

I don't dispute that the Heath programming improves power...

I just dispute the amount that I've seen claimed. There is a difference.

markrinker

06-29-2004, 19:39

Understood, Ronniejoe. Numbers from dyno's are more subjective than people think. I can show you how to make a stock Harley gain 3-5hp and 5-7lb/ft on the dyno without turning a wrench.

I plan to get numbers from this combo soon - for what its worth. Either at my engine builder's shop or at JK's in the fall.

My point is that the stuff delivers results, and the Bill vs. John thing is growing old and is perpetuated by members of DP, not Bill or John!

[ 06-29-2004, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: Mark Rinker ]

rjschoolcraft

06-29-2004, 20:46

Yeah, I understand that as well. I don't really want to get into the Bill vs. John thing either. I don't know Bill and haven't used his products as of yet. What I do know is that some of his claims leave me scratching my head.

In the business that I'm in, I've been around dynamometer testing for the last 20 years. Mostly gas turbines for aircraft use. One test set up used two 500 HP electric motor/dynamometers in line to drive a 4-square gearbox test rig. We had a hydraulic torque applier in the loop with two gearboxes coupled back to back. The motor/dynamometers were used to rotate the system through a 5:1 step up gearbox and to overcome losses. Yes, 1,000 HP to overcome losses! The torque applier locked 13,000 HP in the loop between the two gearboxes, which were rotating at 9500 rpm input speed.

The helicopter engines that I was lead design engineer for produced 715 HP from a 250 lb. package. Every part I ever designed for flight (of which, there are hundreds) was run through a minimum of 500 hrs. of dynamometer testing before it was released for production. Developmental hardware often ran 1000 to 1500 hrs of dynamometer testing.

I have no argument with the seat of the pants assessments that are discussed by happy 6.5 owners. I think that's cool. I just want to peel through the hype and get to the bottom line.

I can tell you factually (to be backed up reasonably soon with documentation) that at least one claim is bogus on the Hayden web site for their severe duty fan clutch sold by Heath. What they claim as unique internal geometry to improve their unit is identical to the OEM clutch that was delivered on our engines. That bothers me. :mad: It also makes me very skeptical of other claims.

matt-max

06-30-2004, 03:27

i believe that the power gain for the heath ecm is listed as 'up to xxhp gain' and assumes an L56 motored rig. if so, i believe it is very possible based on my experience.

on my 99 yu-hoe, 127ish hp stock turned into 171ish hp with jk exhaust, electronic boost controller, and 2001 3500hd ecm. so there's a very noticeable 40hp!

the brief distance it ran well on the heath ecm was a very noticeable, tire-smokin' improvement. my buddy, chris, drove it from our shop to my house, about 8 miles, and i got about 1.5 miles with foot to the floor before it set the ses light. we both still get glossy-eyed when we remember how well it ran....

the wester's ecm's we have now are not as aggressive but are definitely more powerful than the 2001 stock ecm, but not as strong as the programming in the 96 2500hd with the tts/bd ecm down low.

we plan to return them both to lyndon to be made stronger like the one he sent to heath to send to us the yu-hoe originally.

sorry we have been too busy 'scaping the land to get any hard numbers as we planned and would definitely like to do. all in good time.....

matt

99gmccrew

06-30-2004, 08:44

I don't think it's right that we're slinging mud about someone's products that are getting a lot of good reviews from our members. I say let John and Bill fight their own battles if they deem neccessary. Without hard proof you can really damage someone's reputation and that's just not fair.

BuffaloGuy

06-30-2004, 10:21

Hey ronnie joe I for one can attest to the fan clutch comment you made. My fan clutch from Bill appeared to be EXACTLY the same as OEM. Meanwhile, the one I got from John was much bigger and obviously better built. I've got the pictures to document it. This one instance has made me a little leery too.
Ken

Edited only for spelling.

[ 07-01-2004, 02:54 PM: Message edited by: The Buffalo Guy ]

Turbine Doc

06-30-2004, 12:43

I'm with 99 Crew on this one, let's not digress from what has been a hallmark to this site constructive criticism directly to a product, rather than trashing of vendors. It's hard to reign in ones enthusiasm or lack of it sometimes; I got caught up myself a while back with the Steak sauce vendor.

Rather than debating a vendors service ad nauseum, stick to the product itself please. I have products from both vendors listed here & like them both & would recommend them, as far as prices they are what they are it's called free enterprise system.

99 back to your original question to me, I tried a BD reflash I could not make it learn theft code my fault they say, not worth going into the details I sent it back.

I ran JK's old reflash for a while(new one out soon I have heard), when I got a 99 K2500 L65 PCM for a core, I found it had nearly the same as the JK reflash I returned it aslo, JK has stated hard to beat a 99+ factory program & I agree until I ran 2.0 Heath.

I contacted several vendors; (Quadzilla in person even, at last years Dallas dyno meet) attitude & comments were that "no market in it" 6.5s are going away. Bill Heath came up with an improved offering , version 1.0 was boring not much improvement over factory 99+ program wasn't worth the money.

2.0 is a different story, while numbers might be elevated or not I don't know, there IS a improvement over factory program.
With all my mods I'm to point of not knowing what did what.

In the total package I have SOP improvements, the Heath reflash is icing on cake for me I give it an enthuiastic thumbs up. Feel free to disagree, I will dyno this someday and know for sure what it adds to the mix, I still have capability of coming back to a fairly stock configuration, other than IC & Hi Pops.

patrick m.

06-30-2004, 14:59

I think Ron said the HP and TQ claims "sounds inflated to me".
that is nothing more than am opinion. As a matter of fact, i have the same opinion. Most of us have mods to add power, we have found it very addictive ;) . 50hp sounds great! what is that....a 25% increase? thats HUGE! I find that hard to believe.
That doesnt mean it is not true. That just means what is says. "incredible" means un believable.

Lets keep things in perspective, Ron is a respected, intellegent fellow member= hes not bashing anyone.
JK has many fine products, and many loyal customers.
Heath has many fine products and many loyal customers.
Everyone in the above list participates here for one thing: 6.5l performance and reliability.
just my opinion :cool:

Billman

06-30-2004, 16:32

If you want to get technical, 50 Horsepower could be considered an understatement. Nowhere is the claim given at a particular rpm or condition.

Let's say with stock programming of 62mm, your pushing your truck hard, possibly with a boost controller of some sort. At some point, your IAT's get too hot and your computer starts pulling back fuel. There's a slight decrease in power but you can't tell how much.

Now take the Re-flash, any Re-flash. It's not going to cut fuel at a given IAT because you should be driving by the EGT. Now add approx 15mm of fuel, without the ability of the computer to cut back fuel, and I think the possibility of an additional 50 HP is possible. VERY possible.

I remember reading something MorePower wrote similar to the gains that can be made with an Intercooler. IIRC 100 Horsepower could be made. It's not actually MADE but NOT LOST .

You can't take the rated HP of the 6.5 and just add 50 to it. Play it out in a scenario.

Does this make sense?

For the record, I just installed a Heath ECM and couldn't be happier.

99gmccrew

06-30-2004, 17:04

I respect the opinions of all the members on this site, especially RJ's. He is the one who basically
gave me the blueprint for success on modifying my 6.5L. I've gotten lots of help from many different people, which is what makes this website so awesome. He was the first one to respond to my initial post when I was a very green newbie. I'm just a faded green now. I have used every piece of advice he has given me and I have a much better rig because of it. His knowledge and intelligence is not to be disputed by anyone. In my humble opinion he is a little bias towards JK products which is to be expected, as it appears they are good friends. I like to stick up for my friends too, but I'm not so sure it's the right thing to do in this forum where we look for objective opinions. I hope we can get away from this type of digression and continue to help each other "find the power". Just my 2 cents

99gmccrew

06-30-2004, 17:10

Billman, do you have the latest 2.0 version?

Spindrift

06-30-2004, 18:19

I'm not about to get into a debate about what Mr. Webster meant by a word or phrase. Let's examine this issue from another perspective. There are quite a few new members of TDP; even newer than me. Most of these folks probably haven't had the experience that some of us have had with both JK and Bill. Personally, if I was new and reading some of the things that have been written about JK and Bill by members, it might make me think twice about doing business with either one of them. For that reason alone we all should be extra careful about what we say and how we say it.

Let's try to focus our comments on what we have experienced. I believe that's what separates this forum from the Cosmopolitans of the Web.

Billman

07-01-2004, 06:31

99gmccrew

Bill doesn't refer to the Re-flash as a 2.0 version. Only the 'Chips' are referred to that way. That's the way I took it.

My Re-Flash is less than a month old.

99gmccrew

07-01-2004, 07:32

Does anyone have an opinion on other reflashes out there? I hope I'm not opening an other can of worms here.

JoeyD

07-01-2004, 07:47

There are no other flashes out there. They all come from the same guy. JK let that out a few weeks ago.

Billman

07-01-2004, 07:48

I think it's too late for that already...

Turbine Doc

07-01-2004, 07:51

My apologies on 2.0 reference I went thru 4 different changes with Bill on what I finally ended up with in my truck, I saw 2.0 getting kicked around different forums/threads and attached it to what I have.

During 1 of those changes Bil & his programmer found a programming equipment fault, that sort of nulled out the changes we were tring to impliment, plus my desire to be L56/65 thew some curve at the programmer.

Ultimately I wound up with a L56 reflash program, I'm still talking with Bill about L65 program & bypassing all L56 equipment when my extended warranty runs out.

I have a complete L65 intake on the shelf waiting for the day, the exended warranty Co's look for any out to void a claim whether or not as the MM act says the mods have to be proven to cause a problem before warranty claim can be denied.

As for reflash call Bill, & see if you are not satisfied will he take the flash back, my past experience is that he will probably say yes, he would rather have a happy customer than a disgruntled one. My guess from my experience is you won't be returning it though, I don't know what else I can add, plus my comments above where I had tried more than 1 vendor.

If the JK new version will net more I'll buy it and sell the Heath, would have the JK now but as of yet; it isn't available (WAZZ Up JK build it & Tim will buy it) & I want/need more power now with emphasis on WANT, but I'm after a tow rig, not wanting to be drag strip or Dyno King; if additions risk longevity of the engine I'll pass, some of the stuff out there currently seem to just add fuel & boost, which is only part of the equation.

[ 07-01-2004, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: tbogemirep ]

Turbine Doc

07-01-2004, 08:01

As far as I have been able to research 2 programmers out there for 6.5 Z Industries and Westers what does differ is proprietary programming as specs laid out by different vendors BD, JK, Heath have different programming curves or so I've been led to believe, if that is not the case my apologies up front for my ignorance.

I do know that my 1st reflash from Heath was/is different from what I'm running now, according to Bill nothing special about my tuning it is what he is now offering for all, folks that have the previous version of chip or reflash are eligible for tuning at a discount.

rjschoolcraft

07-01-2004, 08:53

Tim,

I don't think you meant any offense by the "dyno King" remark, so non taken. ;)

But, I would like to say that this is the first time that I've ever had my truck (or any other of my vehicles) on a dynamometer. I'm doing the modifications for the specific reason of towing performance, as you stated. I don't want another disastrous trip out west like I had last summer (and in 2000). I would bet that not too many other DP members put as many towing miles on as I do (some, but not many) each year.

I bought the Suburban to tow with. Plain and simple. I was disappointed with the engine performance as received and set out to fix it.

Just for clarification, somebody said earlier that JK and I were "good friends." While I am pleased to have made his acquaintance, we've only met in person twice. We really hardly know each other. He has been very helpful in making my Suburban perform better and I've come to trust his input. In some cases, I've done my own independent assessment of things and come to conclusions about what needs to happen. I talk to John and ask questions without giving away what I've already decided. When I get the same conslusions from talking to him, I feel pretty good about the direction I'm headed. It seems that a mutual respect is growing. I also was very pleased that he was able to use my Suburban as a means to validate some of his products. I got a free dyno run and he got hard validation. That's a win-win situation, IMO.

I have no interest in bashing anyone. I just like to keep the discussion in the realm of reason and occasionally want to point out, for the betterment of all, when something doesn't seem to make sense. If I'm shown to be wrong, I'll admit it and make a retraction. If you've read any of my posts over the last couple of years, you should be able to see that.

[ 07-01-2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: ronniejoe ]

Turbine Doc

07-01-2004, 09:27

Ronnie no slight intended at all, as for slights one vendor over another nothing intended there either I was raising a flag (poorly evidently) to not digress to what I've seen on other forums, problem with written computer text it goes and it's said with no inflection behind the statement to gauge tone of the comment, that you get in person or in voice.

We have talked and passed emails I consider you as a confidant and part of my "brain trust" to bounce alternative ideas to, same with JK, I've never met him in person but I have spent much time conversing even after hours, support is 1st rate, I will most definitely will do business with him again if the need arises.

I have no animosity to any here or crosses to bear if some of my posts read that way my humblest of apologies. I'm just Diesel lovin power hungry red-neck, can't git it rite always.

99gmccrew

07-01-2004, 11:16

With all that said and done I'm glad to see we all still have a sense of humor. Thanks to everyone for your input. I now need to decide whether to reflash or keep what I've got. I've been reading AndyL's thread on shift kits. I'm thinking if I reflash I won't have to get the shift kit. I would like to see some tighter shifting while towing and in non-towing mode.

rjschoolcraft

07-01-2004, 11:52

If you go the reflash route, you likely will not need a shift kit. My chip really firmed up the shifts on my Suburban and I see no need to do anything else.

Cowracer

07-01-2004, 11:58

Hey!

while we are being all nice and cuddly, I'd personally like to thank both Kennedy and Heath for staying out of the conversations like this and letting us "fight it out amongst ourselves" and not bashing and flaming each other.

That simple act of common courtesy speaks volumes for the character of both. And thats something 'Ol Steak-Sauce never quite got.

Tim

99gmccrew

07-01-2004, 12:12

One more question involving shifting.
Is the torq-loc still suggested after reflash?
Or would that also be handled through programming?

rjschoolcraft

07-01-2004, 14:39

I don't know of any programming for the 4L80E that can command converter lock-up the way the Torq-Loc does. Keep in mind, several folks have reported bad experiences with the Torq-Loc on OBDII trucks. I wrote an article on the Torq-loc which can be found here. (http://www.thedieselpage.com/reviews/torqloc.htm)

[ 07-01-2004, 05:35 PM: Message edited by: ronniejoe ]

99gmccrew

07-01-2004, 19:51

Excellent write up. Nice photography. Is that your work RJ?

rjschoolcraft

07-01-2004, 20:53

Yes. Jim asked me to do the install and evaluation, then write the article. All the photos are mine except for the first one. Jim took that picture and used it in a short "new-product" description a while back. I am presently working on a couple other articles that may get published here as well.

I discussed more about the Torq-Loc in the thread, "Significant improvement in towing performance!" (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005059) There was also some good discussion here (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004863) when the article was first published.

When descending grades West of Denver, I could select third gear with the Torq-Loc on and let the rig ride against engine drag without using the service brakes. Occasionally, I would need to slow for traffic or whatever and the service brakes were cool and ready for whatever I needed. I could roll down the mountains at 50 mph on I-70 feeling very secure.

On a previous trip through the same route without the Torq-Loc, I kept my speed under 35 mph and stayed in second gear to keep from using the service brakes too much. In third, I would gain far too much speed requiring extensive use of the service brakes. Not good.

I've come to really like having the Torq-Loc installed and use it a lot, even when running solo.

[ 07-01-2004, 09:34 PM: Message edited by: ronniejoe ]

99gmccrew

07-01-2004, 22:34

RJ, in the trips you logged in your "significant improvement" thread, did you have your jk chip at that time? That is a great story and I know that feeling of tension you used to feel,before the mods, very well.

Also my c3500 is rated at 215hp from the factory. Does this mean I have the lower compression engine? I saw somewhere that the only 6.5 that gm put out with the low cr was rated at 215hp. Most people are saying the low cr never made to production. Would be nice if it was! :D

rjschoolcraft

07-01-2004, 23:29

I've had the JK chip since late May of 2003. However, the first chip I had was one of his middle of the road chips. I didn't have the intercooler installed yet then. It was delayed somewhat in manufacture and didn't make it here before we left for a three week trip to California. That chip helped quite a bit, but I still ran into trouble when the IAT would get too high. I also didn't have the fan clutch then. We overheated badly.

When we returned, the intercooler was here waiting for me. I installed it and immediately ordered the fan clutch. It was installed about a week later. I then traveled up to Wisconsin to visit the in-laws for the 4th of July holiday. While up there, I talked my wife into letting me drive on up to John Kennedy's to meet him and see his shop. While there, he handed me another chip that he said was "a little hotter" and said to try it. If I liked it, he said to just send the other one back. Turns out, it was his top chip. The Las Vegas trip in November was in that configuration. However, I had a huge boost leak that I wasn't aware of at the time. The front, center bolt that clamps the upper intake had stripped the thread in the lower intake and boost pressure blew it out. I noticed it was missing before the trip, but didn't realize that it was an open hole to the intake plenum. I thought it was a blind hole, like the four outer ones. After the trip, I figured out that I had the leak and fixed the thread with an insert. That helped my performance even more. This was the configuration that I arrive at Kennedy's for the dyno testing the weekend before last. As you can see in the data plots, I picked up about 15 HP and 20 lb-ft with the boost controller and timing change.

Does your engine have a tag on it somewhere that says it has 215 HP? If it does, could you post a picture of it? Everything I've read and heard says that the 215 HP rating never made it to production. If yours actually says 215 HP on it, then the collective knowledge here needs to be revised and I would stand corrected! That would be pretty cool, too.

It is truly remarkable how much better my Suburban runs and tows now. Heck, I find myself making up excuses to go drive it because it is so fun. :D

I must get to bed. I just finished revising an estimate for a new project that I won to cover increases in scope that the customer wanted. We plan to leave some time tomorrow to go out to Boston for a week to let my oldest son tour MIT. He's ranked first in his class (senior this fall) and scored 1530 on the SAT. Needless to say, he's a lot smarter than his "old man." :D We're getting deluged with mail from colleges all over the country. I will be towing the travel trailer with the whole family (six of us) loaded in the Suburban. I'm looking forward to the towing miles! ;) It should be fun. :cool:

Sorry to ramble on, I'm getting pretty tired.

[ 07-01-2004, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: ronniejoe ]

99gmccrew

07-02-2004, 07:41

Congratulations on son being top of his class. That's outstanding and says alot about his parents.

I know what you mean about finding excuses to drive your upgraded version, I actually ask my wife if she needs anything from the store just so I can air it out a little, if you know what I mean.

I thought I saw the 215hp listed in my owner's manual I'll check it out and get back to you.

99gmccrew

07-02-2004, 11:49

Belive it or not the hp rating is not listed in the owners manual, on the truck or engine, or even in the 4 volume shop manual I just recieved in the mail ($70.00 ebay). In my opinion that is extremely lame. That has got to be a common question from truck owners. The only place I am seeing it listed is on independant truck reviews online and I'm finding it listed at 215hp and 440 ft/lbs torque. I've got alot of wishful thinking going on here!

99gmccrew

07-02-2004, 11:51

They do list the CR at 20.2 to 1 in the shop manual.

rjschoolcraft

07-02-2004, 12:16

I originally posted this in another thread here, but I thought it should be placed here as well.

As far as I can tell (from this and other sources), the lower compression and higher horsepower rating never made it to production. It appears it was planned and advertised somewhat, but never implemented. See this thread (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005955) and this one (http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=005151) for more information.

I sure hate to be the bearer of bad news. I guess you can be content in the knowledge that you've really improved your truck and now are probably at higher levels than that anyway.

99gmccrew

07-02-2004, 14:47

That's disappointing, I thought I might be around 230 to 240hp by allowing the truck to breath so much better. Like you stated RJ,I might be at or near 215hp now. But on the other hand 430 ft/lbs of torque isn't that far off the mark. I definitely think a reflash may be in my future. I just have to think of a way to trick my wife into suggesting it! Make it sound like it was her idea! hmmmm..............

JoeyD

07-02-2004, 15:23

The lid on the air filter box lists the HP and rpm. It also lists the fuel rate

99gmccrew

07-02-2004, 16:59

Thanks JoeyD, 195 @ 3400 its confirmed. My dream is crushed. I wouldn't have looked there.

Kennedy

04-06-2005, 07:10

Originally posted by tbogemirep:
.

99 back to your original question to me, I tried a BD reflash I could not make it learn theft code my fault they say, not worth going into the details I sent it back.

I ran JK's old reflash for a while(new one out soon I have heard), when I got a 99 K2500 L65 PCM for a core, I found it had nearly the same as the JK reflash I returned it aslo, JK has stated hard to beat a 99+ factory program & I agree until I ran 2.0 Heath.

I contacted several vendors; (Quadzilla in person even, at last years Dallas dyno meet) attitude & comments were that "no market in it" 6.5s are going away. Bill Heath came up with an improved offering , version 1.0 was boring not much improvement over factory 99+ program wasn't worth the money.

2.0 is a different story, while numbers might be elevated or not I don't know, there IS a improvement over factory program.
With all my mods I'm to point of not knowing what did what.

In the total package I have SOP improvements, the Heath reflash is icing on cake for me I give it an enthuiastic thumbs up. Feel free to disagree, I will dyno this someday and know for sure what it adds to the mix, I still have capability of coming back to a fairly stock configuration, other than IC & Hi Pops. I just wanted to clarify that I never had an old reflash for sale. I believe that I lent out some
ECM's to Tim to try. Just stuff that I acquired and ran on my truck. Wester's garage is doing the reflash stuff for those mentioned in this post except for BD. HP gains have been decent in many cases, but there's not really much difference in overall output as sold through various vendors. I have requested and implemented a couple of unique features in non performance areas, along with maintaining computer vacuum control of the turbo as that is how the programs are designed to run...