Made in China...

[More Power]

Buyers beware...

It appears China has discovered the 6.5 market. We know that they are exporting 6.5 cylinder heads and 6.5 fuel injectors to North America - perhaps other parts as well.

I've heard about pinholes in cyl head castings (resulting in coolant leaks) and improperly threaded injectors so far.

Personally, I would ask any supplier what the country of origin is for the products I was interested in. I would specifically request OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) parts (GM/AMG/Bosch/Stanadyne/ACDelco/etc.).

For the Duramax guys out there, it appears China is exporting cheap knockoff electrical components as well - like starters. Duramax starters made in China are selling for 1/3 that of OEM on eBay.

Jim

[Diesel Dan]

A while back there was a newspaper article about chinese auto parts. Some are going as far as duplicating major brands logos and packaging. One of the more dangerous items discovered was brake pads made with compressed sawdust! Oil filters were empty canisters with a piece of regular paper stuffed inside and much more.

Basically they said if these parts are selling for 40%, or more, below all others than something is wrong.

It can only get worse with china getting in on the free trade bandwagon.

[Bobbie Martin]

Soon parts bought at your local GM dealer (or used to build that new truck) may be from China. Click here for the info. (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/content/11265329882005034836/)

[rjschoolcraft]

Caterpillar and John Deere are both moving lots of production into China...

[DA BIG ONE]

Anything metal from CHINA is crap for commercial market from their guns to auto parts buyer beware!

[C.K. Piquup]

Our products are going to Hell(or China)in a bread basket.

[trbankii]

Unfortunately, we can thank the buying public for things going this way. Too many people don't recognize quality anymore and have confused "inexpensive" with "cheap" when they buy things. "Inexpensive" is when I buy something for $100 and it lasts me for years. "Cheap" is when I buy the same thing for $25 but have to replace it every couple of months... :rolleyes:

[Kennedy]

Thank you for posting this. I was planning to, but you beat me to it.

The recent discussion of SS Diesel and his "custom" 6.5 heads is directly related.

I bought 3 sets of 6.5 injectors and when in the hands of the first customer learned that the threads sucked. My immediate reaction was to inform my supplier. They said send them back. We sent them back and received the package back as refused or non deliverable. I informed them numerous times and requested that they issue a return pickup as I was not intending to pay twice to return their garbage. No response. Last week I received a sales call from same company trying to sell me more. Price reduced even. I again requested that they pick up the junk and informed tham that any future purchases would be for Delphi or Bosch. I have yet to hear further.

The Company in question will go unnamed, but is from Calgary AB Canada and is NOT a DP advertiser...


The Deere 300CX loader uses a couple of China cast components that are failing. Fortunately I ordered the skid steer carrier which uses steel plate carier where the cast pieces are breaking.

[Cowracer]

Just to set the record straight. In my case (pin holes in the castings leading to coolant leaks) I can neither confirm nor deny that my heads came from china. I had no way of knowing their origin.

But the basic message of this post is a good one. I'll give you one thing to watch for in the future:

I work for the U.S's. #1 lead producion company, at the last remaing primary lead smelter in this country. China is buying lead ore concentrate at a fever pitch. Lead prices have gone from 18 cents a pound to 45 cents in just a couple of years, in no small part due to chinas appetite for lead.

People, the chinese ain't making paint with this lead! It will return to the USA as automotive batteries. We are already seeing a trickle, it wont be long before china can buy and transport the ore over there, smelt and refine it, produce batteries and ship those batteries back over here for less than we can do it here.

The reason is three fold: #1 the virtual slave labor in china, #2 the lack of any form of quality attainment, and #3 the total lack of enviromental controls.

Right now, the EPA and DNR are so far up our (my companies) a$$, that we have to suspend operations depending of weather and wind. Thats right, if the wind blows the wrong way, the only primary lead smelter in this nation SHUTS DOWN. You think they do that in China?

Dont get me wrong. I (and my company) are all in favor of maintaing a healty enviroment. We truly dont want to expose ANYONE to lead, but EPA regs are such that we are trying to clean up 100 years of uncontrolled operation in a few years. I have spent more money this year on meeting EPA regs than on buying or maintaning production or process equipment.

China has an unfair advantage. I implore you to please consider where your batteries are made in the future when you purchase.

{rant mode off}

Tim

[More Power]

I can remember a program I saw on television in the 90's that showed how a company in China had imported a Jeep Cherokee, disassembled it down to the last nut and bolt, then produced a copy - lots of copies.... Chrysler complained, and took the issue to the international courts. China thumbed their noses at everyone. Lots of other products are also being copied.

I had read where the purchase price of every new vehicle rolling off assembly lines in the US included about $1500 in employee health care. This plus the burden of wages and environmental regulations put US auto makers at a distinct disadvantage in the world market.

Solutions to these problems are difficult to achieve, with the easiest solution being to move manufacturing off shore. Labor & manufacturers need to come up with a solution that keeps manufacturing here.

I brought up the China/6.5 issue because we have had enough problems to deal with without adding shoddy parts to the mix.

Jim

[Marty Lau]

Let's see IRC wasn't it our The "greatest president of the 20th Century Bill Clinton who gave China most favored trade status and didn't he something like 20 Million in Campain contributions from China? What did we expect? I think we need to resind "most favored nation" trade status from China and put HUGE import taxes on Red China's imports, I mean like 500-1000% so anyone else for somewhere has an advantage. Just my not so humble opionion.

[jspringator]

I bought a Norinco .45 a few years ago hoping to modify it and save money on the base platform of a nice .45. Well, I had a lot of Wilson accessories on it, and took it in to have the trigger done. They put a real nice pull on it, but the more I shot it the easier it got. Finally, one time it shot twice! I guess the heat treat hardening on the sear was surface only, and when they worked on it, they ground the hardening off. I sold this one, but still have my Mac 90 with the large magazine; but I won't modify it!

[Kennedy]

If I understand correctly (John8662 could maybe confirm) Jamie said that the problem heads on Cowracer's engine were the China castings.

[NH2112]

Originally posted by 16ga SxS:
Let's see IRC wasn't it our The "greatest president of the 20th Century Bill Clinton who gave China most favored trade status and didn't he something like 20 Million in Campain contributions from China? What did we expect? I think we need to resind "most favored nation" trade status from China and put HUGE import taxes on Red China's imports, I mean like 500-1000% so anyone else for somewhere has an advantage. Just my not so humble opionion. But after he was elected the FEC found that the contributions were improper, so he returned them (same went for Riady contributions from Indonesia.) Surely he told them he couldn't give them anything in return since he had to refund their money! :rolleyes:

[chickenhunterbob]

sounds somewhat racist to me,,,china? not good?

If only you guys had any idea how many millions of tons of various goods the US imports from China each day...

[rjschoolcraft]

Originally posted by chickenhunterbob:
sounds somewhat racist to me,,,china? not good?

If only you guys had any idea how many millions of tons of various goods the US imports from China each day... Not racist...simply factual. Most of the stuff from China is junk. And yes, I know a lot of the stuff we buy is made in China. I, too, don't agree with trading with China...a communist, oppressive regime that is an outright enemy of the US.

In my work, I've seen plenty of sub-par hardware coming from China. The bean counters love it because it's cheap. The problem is, there's never a connection between increased warranty expenditure and the initial "cheapness" of the hardware. Go figure.

I'm also very tired of hearing "racist" about everything.

[twaddle]

Hi Guys and Girls,
Take a look at this site, it will alarm you just how vast and varied the product range is from one country.
http://www.made-in-china.com/

Most of these countries (and there is more than just China) who can manufacture "less expensively" than the so called developed countries can produce goods to the specification that the buyer wants. That's why most of the big manufacturing have been using the likes of China and India for some years.
I seem to remember back in the 80's Caterpillar shutdown a factory over here in Scotland (they had just invested millions on expansion) they also shut 3 factories in the US and opened 6 factories in China.

If you noticed in the past the story was " we have invested in chinese companies to enable us to enter Asian markets". Yeh right.

Nowadays they just admit that certain componants are to be manufactured in China.
I read recently that Mercedes/Chrysler is having componants manufactured in China for both Mercedes and Chrysler vehicles.

Here in the UK we have been stripped of most of the major manufacturing Industries (not just because of cheap imports) and we're also flooded with chinese imports.

As long as the public want to pay less and share holders of companies want higher profits at any cost with less hassle the countries with lower wages/standard of living and less controls on safety and enviromental emissions will always get the business.

We might think the goods are cheaper to buy at the moment but I think we will pay for it later one way or the other.

Boy we are sure getting some varied discussions what with this one and the more political discussion elsewhere.

Well that's my rant over too.

Thanks and have a good weekend.

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by James Springate:
I bought a Norinco .45 a few years ago hoping to modify it and save money on the base platform of a nice .45. Well, I had a lot of Wilson accessories on it, and took it in to have the trigger done. They put a real nice pull on it, but the more I shot it the easier it got. Finally, one time it shot twice! I guess the heat treat hardening on the sear was surface only, and when they worked on it, they ground the hardening off. I sold this one, but still have my Mac 90 with the large magazine; but I won't modify it! Springfield is a good start for great carry gun out of the box, for highcaps para ord is my choice. I do all my own custom work on my pistols, rifles, shotguns and full auto items brownells is great place to start for parts.

Those AK items can be heat treated to improve their longevity. The large mags are so soft that if dropped at short distance they can become unuseable.

As for steering parts made in china, the ball joints on tie rods and other parts pull out in short order because of too soft metal.

[NH2112]

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by chickenhunterbob:
sounds somewhat racist to me,,,china? not good?

If only you guys had any idea how many millions of tons of various goods the US imports from China each day... Not racist...simply factual. Most of the stuff from China is junk. And yes, I know a lot of the stuff we buy is made in China. I, too, don't agree with trading with China...a communist, oppressive regime that is an outright enemy of the US.

In my work, I've seen plenty of sub-par hardware coming from China. The bean counters love it because it's cheap. The problem is, there's never a connection between increased warranty expenditure and the initial "cheapness" of the hardware. Go figure.

I'm also very tired of hearing "racist" about everything. </font>[/QUOTE]I agree, I don't think that anyone's saying or implying that quality products can't come from China because the Chinese don't have the intelligence to make them. What has been said, and is based on fact, is that the Chinese have knowingly supplied substandard products, and that their products - substandard or not - are generally produced by what we would call slave labor. The air in Chinese cities is basically translucent due to the amount of pollution, and the lack of environmental controls along with the wages their workers get are part of the reason their goods can be sold so cheaply here. Like has also been said, the American public today has a "oh, I don't care how long it lasts, if it breaks I'll just throw it out and buy another" mentality. Auto parts suppliers are going to buy whatever's cheapest balanced against warranty claims - if those substandard ball joints pull apart after 13 months, it's no longer their problem and most Americans will go buy the exact same part because it's $10 less than the quality one.

The Chinese aren't forcing us to buy their goods, we're doing it on our own and destroying our manufacturing capability at the same time. Stalin did say that the "West will sell us the rope we'll hang them with" (paraphrased) and it does seem that we're happily bowing our necks for the noose right now. Maybe the Chinese will continue to sell to us when we do end up going to war with them, and hopefully they won't be making our arms and ammunition then!

[jspringator]

DBO, I ended getting a Colt Combat Commander Stainless for my .45. Beautiful weapon, but old technology. My Sig-Sauer P-229 is a beautiful example of workmanship and engineering. The difference between the Sig and the Smith automatics I used to own is truly stunning. The 1911 design is timeless, and there is nothing like it, but I don't know if it is practical for today's environment.

[tom.mcinerney]

Boeing began contracting to the Japanese i think in the '60's.
Our domestic cost of living , management and labor policies , short-term expectations from WallStreet , have promoted 'outsourcing'. The fact that neither beancounters not final consumers can distinguish quality doesn't help.
Distinguishing quality of technical products requires a lab , and then some. This is a function that the OEMs must do , and distributors should do.

The Chinese are just like us -- good folks trying to make a living when neither the popular culture nor the officialdom really describe their world very effectively. But they are poorer , and hungry , and have no enforceable environmental regulations thus far. Their income is growing . The Chinese supply of cheap labor is essentially infinite for the forseeable future [20+ years].

American production in many industries has been outsourced to asia rather than meet our environmental regs . Some days in west coast towns , 1/4 of the air pollution is from China!

From the time i was in college (1970) until maybe two years ago, the mainstream thinking among economists has been that outsourcing is efficient and good. From the time that maquiladoras were established on Mexican side of border (1970) US labor unions characterized the move as competing for lower wages. Many maquiladoras have been abandoned by corporations for cheaper asian labor sources , and true to labors' predictions , the Mexican border towns never even got running water.

Right now - now that economic consulting jobs are also being outsourced - economists are rethinking the efficiencies once advertised .

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by James Springate:
DBO, I ended getting a Colt Combat Commander Stainless for my .45. Beautiful weapon, but old technology. My Sig-Sauer P-229 is a beautiful example of workmanship and engineering. The difference between the Sig and the Smith automatics I used to own is truly stunning. The 1911 design is timeless, and there is nothing like it, but I don't know if it is practical for today's environment. ***, All great pistols you have there, I still own the S&W 59 series like em alot even buy up later series made before S&W bending over.

My carry pistol is setup for 45 super, and I use an AWC nexus suppressor (can operates locked slide, semi, or full auto) on it when needed, function flawless, fires full load rounds through suppressor and what you hear is the slide function (when not in locked slide mode) and empty shell cases hitting hard surfaces "no sub sonic ammo needed". 45 WartHog for those lazy casual days.

I'm guessing you do Knob Creek when they are open to FA, or?
http://www.awcsystech.com/

This stuff beats anything that china can make!

[ 11-06-2005, 01:54 AM: Message edited by: DA BIG ONE ]

[Diesel Dan]

Don't forget that China artifically devalues their currency. Some instate manufacturers stated that even if they took labor completely out of the equation they still can't match the imported price.

One of our engineers from India had a brother that ran a manufacturing plant over there. Our engineer told his brother that he found him a forklift for around 12K and wanted to know if he should send it for him. His reply was it was cheaper to pay more people to hand load the trucks than buy a $12K forklift. Wonder how well that company would take care of a employee that suffered a lower back injury?

I'll try to buy products from Canada, USA and most european countries first. They have a better track record for employee care.

Unfare asian advantages:
-no workmens comp
-no labor laws
-no environmental laws(big one)
-no OSHA regs
-building codes???
and the list goes on.

While this does get a little off topic unfortunately it is something that is not brought up enough in everyday culture. Can we say "Wal-mart"? If they were a country they would be the 7th largest importer of Chinesse goods. That was a year ago and may have moved up the list since then.

[nvmtnlion]

A 1911 based handgun is the ultimate carry weapon for most any situation with the right training. I personally carry a Springfield G.I. that has the Ted Yost 1* (since we all only have one ass to risk) package. I find myself feeling naked when I am in situations where I can't carry.

As far as automotive parts from china, I am sure that this falls back on "You get what you pay for"

Just one more thing to watch out for.

[Herman_Bolger]

Although i agree that most of the products imported from China are of lower quality, you cannot blame the Chinese. The Chinese copy North Americain and European products, why? Because our OEM's over here decided that it was cheaper or good for bussines to produce products overseas.

In our area,(Windsor Ont Canada, Across from Detroit Mi.) We had a booming mould industry. Without any exageration we had at least 200 mould shops in our area, they worked 24hrs/7 days. Then came outsourceing, the big 3 decided to send their mould work over to China, within a couple of years our industy fell on its face. Although there a still many mould shops, they are way down in production, 5 days a week.

To add insult to injury, when a company sends work over to China, they may order 10 moulds, when a company rep goes over there to check on the products progress, he finds they are building 15 moulds. When he questions them about the mix up, they say "no mix up, 10 moulds for you, 5 moulds for us" so that you oem's can pay us to make moulds so that we can undercut your own products? And I know that is a fact because one of my freinds owns the mould shop over here.

We are not in the mould bussines, actually we are in the auto and marine repair bussiness, and we try to order from the dealers whenever possible, but sometimes the customer just will not pay twice as much for an OEM part. Then we have to try to explain the differance in quality etc, but 9 times out of 10, if it's insurance work they want the best, if they are paying for it out of their pocket, cheapest price wins. I have lost many a job because of it. Sometimes i get to fix it the second time around because the other guy just could not get it right. How much did the customer save by doing it twice??

Anyway, the problem is with the goverments of nations that promote and give tax credits for companys to produce products offshore. Until goverments realise that its not good to lose $20/hr manufactoring jobs overseas and replace them with $8/hr service jobs, it will only get worse.

Ok enough ranting, i wanted to put in my .02 worth, Anybody got change for a $1.

Herman

[Hubert]

FYI
Patents are just not recognised quite the same the world over. For instance some countries (most western countries) recognise the indivdual who can prove first knowledge and/or art of making the patented item or process. Basically in the US as long as its a new idea, no one can prove prior art, and if it is in fact proprietary the patent is granted. However, for instance in Japan its based on the date of submittal for application of patent. Many products are copied and the first person to document a patent in Japan is awarded the patent; NOT necessarily the first person to come up with the idea or prove the art. I am reasonably sure China and others do the same kind of thing.

Here is one for you I thought was kind of neat....
I work for a machine tool manufacturer. We are manufacturing tools for a Chinese plant. The plant will manufacture diesel engines for a name brand diesel engine manufacturer. We are actually a subsupplier. The machine builder responsible for the process line is buying the tools for this turn key project. They were contracted to NOT divulge the engine manufacturer's name to anyone at all cost. All part prints and documents were cleaned for the end users name and a phoney name was used. The machine builder will be heavily fined if thier name is leaked in anyway to sub suppliers or the press. I am talking tens of thousands of dollars will be deducted from final payment if thier name appears on any document. Its faily common to not divulge the end user of some tooling and not to put thier name on tooling prints but I have never seen secrecy and fines so severe in my 8 years of this business.

What does that tell you about quality and name brand reputation of manufacturing a product in China.

[Herman_Bolger]

Hubert,

Well there you go, the Chinese have no integrety whatsoever!!!!!!

Herman

[rjschoolcraft]

Sounds to me like the integrity problem lies with the American engine manufacturer...

BTW

HOW 'BOUT THOSE COLTS?!!!!!

[markrinker]

We have no further to look than our own trade policies. At present, we are allowing profit margins (greed) to dictate policy. These illegal products should never have been offloaded from the ship that brought them here.

We must apply the same rules to China (and all other importers) and refuse/reject goods produced at the expense of the WORLDS air, their peoples health, and product safety/quality.

I'd much rather we pay a US government bureacrat to stick his head up a Chinese companies #$$ all day, than one of our own...!!

Cheap knockoffs and items that violate US patent laws must be aggressively rejected or impounded at our ports. US companies that buy them should be very worried about losing their investment when the goods are confiscated.

A great world image: CNN broadcasting entire containers full of illegal Chinese parts being pushed off the side of a barge into the ocean.

Simple mssage abroad: Don't send your illegal crap over here - you won't get paid for it.

Simple message local: Don't buy/import this illegal crap - you'll lose your investment.

[ 11-08-2005, 04:27 AM: Message edited by: Mark Rinker ]

[Herman_Bolger]

Your right, the North American company's that send their work to China instead of keeping it here are the ones that have the integrity issue.

They expect us to keep bying their product, but do not want to give people jobs to be able to support the company.

But, it is our goverments that make it so attractive to do bussiness overseas with tax incentives.

I live in Canada, so although we are actually foreign country's to each other, our economy's are so intertwined that what affects the U.S. affects Canada to a large degree.

A large part of my clientel is from The U.S. and noticed this year that with the MI. economy in the basement, our sales are going to be down this winter. And this after we just started to build a new shop.

Oh well I'm sure I can sell it to a Chinese guy to store all his imports!!

[Marty Lau]

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by chickenhunterbob:
sounds somewhat racist to me,,,china? not good?

If only you guys had any idea how many millions of tons of various goods the US imports from China each day... Not racist...simply factual. Most of the stuff from China is junk. And yes, I know a lot of the stuff we buy is made in China. I, too, don't agree with trading with China...a communist, oppressive regime that is an outright enemy of the US.

In my work, I've seen plenty of sub-par hardware coming from China. The bean counters love it because it's cheap. The problem is, there's never a connection between increased warranty expenditure and the initial "cheapness" of the hardware. Go figure.

I'm also very tired of hearing "racist" about everything. </font>[/QUOTE]AMEN!!!

[markrinker]

Most of the stuff from China is junk. And yes, I know a lot of the stuff we buy is made in China. I, too, don't agree with trading with China...a communist, oppressive regime that is an outright enemy of the US.
We can practise isolationism and guarantee that China will continue its oppressive communist tactics - or encourage free trade and watch capitolism flourish.

The key is to enforce strict trade rules, upholding US patents and not allowing them to dump shoddy and illegal products on our market - like knockoff 6.5 heads with holes in the castings.

[rjschoolcraft]

I do not advocate the practice of isolationism...

However, it is impossible to have free trade with an opressive, morally reprehensible regime. We should not reward them for their bad behavior. They artificially devalue their currency...it is pegged at a constant exchange rate that does not reflect true market forces and is favorable to thier economy. They are actively stealing our industrial and military secrets. They are an ENEMY!

[NH2112]

Originally posted by Mark Rinker:
...encourage free trade... [/QB]I prefer the term "fair trade" instead. Fair trade is what you have when every side plays by the same set of rules, or when tariffs are used to help level the playing field.

[ogrice]

We are all americans here. As good americans we should not be doing business with a Communist Nation such as China. Do yourselves and your country a favor by not buying Chinese products. Boycott all Chinese made products. Although our leaders have compromised our Nations integrity by allowing open trade with China, each one of us has the ability to choose to support or not to support the Communists.


Don't buy from China.

[patrick m.]

many conservatives here, no wonder we all get along so well.
As for China, in ten years democracies will have them surrounded..... ;)

[jspringator]

I don't know that you can properly call China "communist" as they appear to have jumped head first into frontier capitalism. They are certainly a toletarian dictatorship of some description. They are certainly no friend of American working men and women. Of course, it is our government's policy of supporting greater profits for large corporations at the expense of workers that is the real problem.

[Cowracer]

Originally posted by James Springate:
I don't know that you can properly call China "communist" as they appear to have jumped head first into frontier capitalism. They are certainly a toletarian dictatorship of some description. They are certainly no friend of American working men and women. Of course, it is our government's policy of supporting greater profits for large corporations at the expense of workers that is the real problem. They are capatalist when it suits them. Communist when it dont.


Tim

[DA BIG ONE]

Originally posted by Cowracer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James Springate:


They are capatalist when it suits them. Communist when it dont.


Tim </font>[/QUOTE]So true!

[85-m1028]

we have a big problem here in the states of millions of illegal imigrants pouring across our border every year in search of work. You have to ask why?? could it be that conditions really aren't all that great were they come from beacuse of a poor economy due to corrupt government?? could it be that U.S. based companies might have a similar outlook, consider this why would anyone want to battle labor unions who want more and more for doing pretty much the same thing?, e.p.a.,federal regulations, taxes, were is the competition for out of control insurance and medical cost? just to name a few!! but does any of this matter when integrity is as deep as your bottom line!! call it what you want but I think bottom line is We The People allow this to happen just like our friends south of the border. Why? well I hear all too often people say "why bother with that stuff just live your life and be happy" ?? I feel that real solutions present themselves and movements happen when everyone is on the same page!! many of us know that history only begins the day we were born and the future is only that much further. I guess it takes a monumental disaster like Pearl Harbor, or 911 to put most of us on the same page and make history even then there's always the few who manage to twist truth and could turn Santa Clause into a villan just for doing the right thing!!! China will have it's day for now but for those who know their history can say that it will not be without consequences.

[jspringator]

What would the 1974 minimum wage of $1.60 be today if adjusted for inflation? I read somewhere it would be almost $10.00 per hour. Why do you think is is almost 1/2 that today? Do you think uncontrolled borders have anything to do with it? Of course. The jobs you can't export, are being devalued by unrestricted immigration.

[mhagie]

Remember guys that when they were proposing NAFTA the jobs lost to Mexico would end up being replaced by more workers here to allow for the increased buying power of the Mexican worker.
At that time they were talking about the Mexican worker earning between $5&10 per hour which would really give them the coins to spend which would increase our imports to them.
However only one thing went wrong the Corporations moving mfg to Mexico decided to only pay around $2 or less, does good things for the profit margin for the company but still leaves the workers streaming accross the border looking for a better deal.
Who got screwed?, we did with the loss of jobs, the mexicans who thought they would earn a decent wage lost also, But in the end it was the good old american company greed that won in the end.
End of rant, Merle

[ 11-13-2005, 05:29 PM: Message edited by: mhagie ]

[Turbo Al]

RonnieJoe,
Last year I worked for 3 months on the John Deere HD Foresty Equipment -- the BIG delimbers, road builders etc and you are 100% correct a lot of "China' materials are going into them and it is extreamly difficult (impossible)to build a "quality" machine with these components. Not only is fit and finish poor but the metals themselves are sub-par and DO NOT belong on anything that has a HD rating. One example was the hydralic hoses full of shavings and crap -- but yet sealed at both ends -- anyone know what happens to Hydralic pump when you feed it dirt and metal shavings??
More Power thanks for the heads up.
Al

[markrinker]

After sitting on my deer stand with rifle ready for a few days - I have decided to radically revise my stance on US and China relations. I have decided that I don't trust anyone that looks like :D anymore!

Lets boycott the import of all their shoddy products!

With that, it shouldn't be long until they stop the import of US products and maybe even agricultural commodities as well...

Without trade, we can start to distrust each other even more...maybe send those damn Nixon era pandas back.

With a little effort, we could restrict internet communciations, software exports, medicine and university training for their young - leaving them technically in our wake!

Maybe in time, we can even find a reason to invade their county in the name of democracy. After all, they treat their people badly (remember 1989s Tiananmen Square Protests?) and they aren't exactly a God-fearing, Christian nation like us, right?

Hmmmm...I wonder if they have any chemical weapons, or weapons of mass destruction we don't know about. Any oil reserves? :eek:

[ 11-13-2005, 10:01 AM: Message edited by: Mark Rinker ]

[rjschoolcraft]

Wow, Mark. How can you be so pessimistic?

[markrinker]

Not really pessimistic...just sarcastic ;)

Truly, I believe that all people are basically good.

[Tractor]

My wife and I looked at a new gooseneck stock trailer in Laurel, Montana today. Nice trailer, but the tires said made in china. Told the dealer if I buy that trailer. It will have tires that say MADE IN THE USA. Dealer told me they will call the factory tomorrow, and all their trailers in their lot will have USA tires from now on.........
TRACTOR

[DA BIG ONE]

Going un-reported, or under-reported are the Chinese nationals who jump ship with lots of u.s. currency, & forged documents including educational then they seek employment in the defense industry, or wherever else they can help themselves to secret data for their homeland.

Back in the mid-90's a Chinese ship sank off the suncoast of Florida & plenty of arms were washing up onto the shores, guess where the load was going? Perhaps, some may remember full auto AK's going to gangs herein America and Clinton pardoned those involved some of which donated to his agenda?

Sure, China can be trusted!

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

"Truly, I believe that all people are basically good." You can't possibly have had any children & believe that. ;)

Seriously, any knowledge of world history disproves what you & I would both like to believe, but will never be true, at least not until the end times are over.

Blessings! :D

[trbankii]

Originally posted by moondoggie:
Good Day!

"Truly, I believe that all people are basically good." You can't possibly have had any children & believe that. ;) Who was it that said "Smack your kids at least once a day. You may not know the reason that they deserve it, but they will!"

smile.gif

[NH2112]

Originally posted by trbankii:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by moondoggie:
Good Day!

"Truly, I believe that all people are basically good." You can't possibly have had any children & believe that. ;) Who was it that said "Smack your kids at least once a day. You may not know the reason that they deserve it, but they will!"

smile.gif </font>[/QUOTE]Same reason that when one of us got belted, we ALL got belted. The other 2 were just getting it for something they didn't get caught doing smile.gif

[Low_Bridge]

I wonder if the guy at my kids marshall arts school is from china?

I wonder if he's sending my money over there to bring more of them over here?

My grandparents on my mom's side had have Indian in them? (not the diaper head type)

I wonder if they came accross the Bearing Straits?

I wonder if quality still has no fear of time?

I wonder if this thread could use some spiritual influence?

I wonder if more people laughed at my warpped perspective or if more rolled their eyes?

I wonder if I'll be short of sleep tomarrow?

This is the best forum I've never been thrown off of!

[DA BIG ONE]

As I said before, they steal whatever they can for their homeland. Link below is an example of their probing of U.S.A. defense tech., how do you say SPY?

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051116/D8DT7D900.html

[Aryeh Levy]

China has a lot of high level operatives in the U.S. First of all the banking system in America is designed to rob us: What they do is this. A: Federal Reserve is not a federal institution. B:when you deposit $1, the banks can create and lend out $9 total. Fractional reserve banking. C. Thomas jefferson said if you let banks survive, then the people in this nation will wake up broke and homeless in the land their fathers stole. D. A lot of out civil liberties have been sold by Bush and Clinton. Why would bush and clinton do so much to destabilise a balanced media and destroy our monetary supply. Check out www.informationliberation.com (http://www.informationliberation.com) and www.infowars.com (http://www.infowars.com) for a little peek at what's coming up if we don't stand up for true constitutional freedom.

Good luck guys. If you don't start looking up what went wrong, you'll have no idea how to make it right.

And this isn't a christian nation anymoe. I read a recent study that something like 15% or fewer base their lives on a relationship with Jesus, and of those most had no idea what the bible said.

Rant mode over....

Seriously, I hope you all know what's happening...

Look up a company called Veripay and Verichip... Looks pretty much like MOTB to me...

[markrinker]

http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/16/news/economy/bush_china_trip/?section=money_latest

An interesting read on Bush's visit to China. What can I say, you guys voted for him... smile.gif

While China is the fifth-largest market for the export of U.S. goods, its own exports to the United States have outstripped its imports by $146 billion in the first nine months of this year, on pace to crack the $200 billion mark by the end of 2005.

"Do you have blacks, too?"

[NH2112]

Any time heads of state meet, you know it's not for the purpose of getting anything meaningful done. It's more a photo op than anything else, and the most that happens is the heads of state give hints to each other of what their delegations will press for during the next summit.

As far as Bush's foreign policy WRT the PRC, yes, it's a mess but then again I think every President's China policy has been a mess since the Nixon days. Part of the problem is the fact that Americans typically want the gov't to take a hard line on Chinese imports, but they also want to have stores full of inexpensive (and generally cheap) Chinese-made goods. Even in the 21st century Information Age it's still not possible to have one's cake and eat it too!