freon intercooler questions Update w/pics.

[Jim P]

I have an air conditioning unit(I think they call this the evaperator) out of an 88 ford pickup. It measures about 12"x9"x4". I am wondering if I could hook the lines from my compressor to this unit and use it as an intercooler. I was planning to lay it down over top of the lower intake and cast a new upper intake that would completely surround it.

My major question is whether it would work while laying down. In the ford it was standing up. I also have read about suburbans having both a front and rear air conditioner. I would like to hook this up along with my original just like the suburbans do so I will be able to use my airconditioner. Anyone know how they do this?

[ 02-29-2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: Jim P ]

[pannhead]

if your interested in incorporating the a/c system you may want to talk to these people...coolflow.com

[Jim P]

Pannhead,

I checked out that website but it looks like their systems use the ac system to help cool the water in a liquid intercooler system. I just wanted to use the ac system to directly cool the intake air. Maybe that won't work

[pannhead]

i'm leaning towards "not"...i've never been impressed with the a/c system and this is just trying to cool summertime cabin temps...just imagine this system trying to cool 300 degree temps going a million miles hour thru it :eek: ...i would think the head pressure on the compressor would be too much of a load.....i'm not an a/c pro at all so maybe a pro could chime in with all the fancy science to establish if its possible to cool the cabin AND the intake charge

[Jim P]

If it would not cool both, how about just the intercooler. I never used my a/c last year anyways because it was not charged.

I see that you have a burb. Do you know how both a/c systems are hooke to one compressor? Is it just a tee in the lines?

[pannhead]

where are the a/c guys when you need 'em :confused: ..i believe the front a/c is controlled via an orifice tube and the rear with an expansion valve,and of obviously there are sensors are all over the place,the most important being the low pressure switch in the accumulator...yes,the lines are tee'd.....hey a/c guys!!!! help me out here :D

[pannhead]

ok jim, go to ackits.com and then to the a/c forum...these know 100 times more than me

[Jim P]

Thanks for the website Pannhead. I will check it out.

Sorry to put you on the spot with all questions. Its just that I want to start casting the upper intake tomorrow. I was originally going to use a heater core from a ford escort but I had this a/c evaporator and it is bigger than an escort heater core. I guess even if the freon system don't work, I can still use this evaperator as the intercooler and just run water through it. I will have to figure out a way to cool the water though. I just thought that the a/c compressor and condensor are already there so all I would need is some lines.

[Peter J. Bierman]

I think your Idea is all right but there are a few things to realize before you start.
First is the drag in the intake airflow you create with the evaporator, the normal watercooled intercoolers are very course becouse off the airflow, the evap. is very fine since the airflow is low.
Second, the cappacity is not great enough to effectivly cool the intake air, the quantity off air is too big, this works for a very short time but with longer runs or normal driving you would not be able to maintain cooling.
There should not be a problem with the possition off the evap. couse the temp off the intake air will keep the thing ice free.

I would go to water cooled or air to air cooled intake air but if you go thie way, keep us posted.

Peter

[Jim P]

I am leaning towards using water rather than freon. I am still planning to use the a/c evaporator inside a cast aluminum housing. I got the lower half of the housing cast today. The evaporator may not flow enough air but it sure seems like it would. time will tell.

Here is some pictures of the casting I made and the evaporator.

http://myweb.core.com/photos/jpfarmer@raex.com/intercoolercasting/

It didn't come out quite as good as I would have liked but i guess its not too bad for an amateur. I still have to smooth it up a little and drill the mounting holes but I think you can get the idea.

Now I have to cast the upper half that will cover the upper part of the evaporator and bolt to the lower half. the top half will also extend over and attach to the turbo.

[pannhead]

awesome work :eek: ...keep us updated

[Shotuscnc]

hi Jim.. i love that idea... just what i had planned tho i have no casting abilities... i plan to use a radiator of some sorts as an after-cooler... taking cool water fromt the stock waterpump and run thru the 'bus heater core' then thru the evaporator... then return water to suburban radiator...

would love to discuss details with you.. and maybe work up some way i can buy a casting from you... thanks,

Chris chrisnealchris@msn.com

[Peter J. Bierman]

Now that's an amazing piece off work, how did you do that? :eek:
I realy love this, just hope it turns out to be working.

Peter

[Jim P]

I really don't want to say how I made this because I am planning to try to sell them.

I have to make sure that it works first. I wouldn't want to sell anyone anything that doesn't work.

I added a few more pictures of the casting mounted on the truck if anyone wants to see them.

http://myweb.core.com/photos/jpfarmer@raex.com/intercoolercasting/

[pannhead]

this is getting a SUPER-COOL award in my book....if you end up trying freon 1st, i'll be happy to donate a few cans of 134a....i would also upgrade to a parallel flow condensor...i've been toying w/the idea of using the a/c to cool the liquid on my intercooler system...just in the brain-storming stage....i have seen in person a freon intercooler system on one of those "fast-and-furious" cars and it actually had frost forming on it :eek: ..i asked about compressor drag and his reply was that there is a switch that turns the compressor off at WOT.....keep going dude :D

[Jim P]

Pannhead,

Do you think I should try the freon? I was getting the impression that nobody thought that it would keep up with heat generated by the turbo.

One thing that I want to do before I make the second half of this casting is drill and tap the lower intake for a vaccum gauge and then drive the truck with the evaporator in place to see if it will flow enough air. I realize that with the turbo hooked it will have to flow more air but it will have the boost pressure to help force it through. If the evaporator won't flow enough air, this is all going to go out the window. On your liquid intercooler, how close are the fins, does it seem more freeflowing than this evaporator.


Does anyone know if driving the truck without the turbo hooked to the intake would cause any damage to the turbo. I am concerned that it might overspeed when I am testing to see if the evaporator will flow enough air.

Another question is whether my 2500hd would have more room under the hood than say a 1500. I read somewhere that on the hd's, the body sets higher on the frame. Is this true?

[ 03-01-2004, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: Jim P ]

[pannhead]

i'm the one that thinks it wont keep up :D ....but i say what the heck,i would try it while the evaporator is till clean...then if it doesnt work well,then you just go with water...just for the record I DONT KNOW :confused: .....there is only one thing that keeps sticking in my mind: the heat absorbed from the evaporator must be released, i'm not sure that the compressor and the gm condensor could keep up.....i dont want to be the bummer here because i really want you to try it smile.gif

[pannhead]

geez,i didnt answer your question (brain fart) :rolleyes: ...your evaporator looks to have about twice the fin count per inch...your idea of testing this is very good to see if this would serve as a restriction, i'm sure there is a fine line to consider

[Jim P]

The fins are pretty close together but if you hold it up to the light, you can see through it. It don't seem to me that it would be any more restrictive than an air filter but I may be wrong. I think that the vaccum gauge will tell me one way or another.

[pannhead]

good idea...i'll try (crappy camera) to get a pic for you showing fin spacing/configuration on my spearco

[Jim P]

Even if the a/c system would not keep up on a long hard, I bet it would cool off pretty nice while waiting at a traffic light. When the light turned green, I bet you could pull some pretty good hole shots. :D

[Shotuscnc]

hi Jim.. would be a good idea to test without turbo and measuring vacuum on each side of evaporator... of course before you try to add some type of coolant.. you are unlikely to see any vacuum differential at lower rpm's...

of course under boost conditions and with your coolant system in-place you should experience lower boost on the 'engine side' of the evaporator...

an automotive machine shop that does performance cylinder head porting can test the airflow of the evaporator at various 'inches of mercury'

you have an exciting experiment underway... keep charging as intercooling is the only source of 'free HP'

Chris

[gmctd]

Disconect the vacuum line from the wastegate servo - no exhaust velocity, no boost.

Should not set a DTC.

Try it with all the intake ducting connected for a reference vacuum level.

Much safer, that way.

Add the c\a cooler, try it again for the comparison level.

Be prapared for clouds of black smoke!

[patrick m.]

i think this thread will get a lot of attention over the next comming weeks :D

[BUZZ]

Jim,
Nice casting. Now lets get crazy. Nascar guys run a belt driven differential pump right off the diff yoke. Take this puppy to the next level, mount a small Denso compressor to the rear diff. You can buy lengths of insulated tubing add the evap, with fan under cab and the oriface or expansion valve and Ta da. Plenty of semi free power to spin your compressor. You may want a skid plate to protect the evap though. Maybe you could drive it at the trans yoke for more clearence and less plumming.

Sorry got a little carried away and more crazy than intended. Of course cost is no factor right.

Buzz

[Jim P]

Well guys, I drilled and tapped my lower intake and hooked up a combination vaccum and fuel pressure gauge. I also mounted my casting and dropped the evaporator in and siliconed all around so all the air had to pass through it. After the silicon set up, I started it and the gauge never moved, then I took her for a spin. I took it clear up until I hit the rev limiter in 4 th gear and the vaccum gauge never moved. I then took off the evaporator and the casting and put it all back to normal except I left the vaccum gauge on. Guess what, when I first start the truck the gauge reads about 1. To me this proves that the air filter must have more restriction than the evaporator.

Now I got to get that top half cast. So much to do, so little time.