running hot towing

[Keith Richards]

Last weekend I took the travel trailer out with the family.It's only the second time I've used it,and the first time in hilly terrain,and warm weather.Truck has really good power to pull this 8,000 lb. trailer though it gets hot on long pulls(210-220) tops then I seriously back off.I dont yet have an EGT guage but want one.Am I safe doing what I'm doing?It runs really cool normally (no hills) and only hit the 210 mark for a minute then cools down after I let off.It starts to belch quite a bit of black smoke after a long pull,and power stays really good.It's a little annoying to have to back off and slow down when I still have alot more power to go,but my main concern is keeping this engine alive.I know you guys will say I neeed an EGT guage but am I keeping the temps safe?Thanks

[markrinker]

I'd say, "no" - to both questions. Get a JK fan and clutch kit installed at a minimum. That will take care of the high water temps.

The black smoke under load is almost certainly an indicator that your EGTs are way too high. Smoke is unburned fuel, and that means you have incomplete combustion - transferring lots of heat to exhaust valves, exhaust manifolds, turbo, etc. In turn, your intake air charge temp rises as the turbo overheats. Vicious cycle that takes down engines - especially those that pull loads.

You should investigate your turbo wastegate controls to determine why there is unburned fuel - i.e. lack of sufficient air to burn. If you are not 'chipped' and using stock boost controls, it probably is not working correctly.

Get some guages. Mucho cheaper than a motor. I learned the hard way last spring!

[markelectric]

I would take a good look at the radiator. "Stuff" gets between rad and ac, hampers air flow. A buildup on the radiator or in the radiator will not allow heat transfer. If no heat transfer the fan clutch will not sense the need to kick in. 8000# is a very small load compared to some others have pulled with no overheat problems while running without any upgrades. Good luck

[Keith Richards]

Thank you for the replys.I'm trying to learn about these diesel engines and dont want to learn the hard way.I didn't realise those temps I was reaching were that extreme.I hope I havent done any damage and will definately get some gauges installed and have the boost controller looked at asap.Unfortunately I'm in construction and constantly using my trucks,thats whats been holding me back.

[rjschoolcraft]

Get the JK fan clutch. Get an EGT gage. I was shocked at how high the EGT would go with my truck in stock trim.

[Spindrift]

Keith,

Before spending money, do the simple things first as suggested above by markelectric. Read this:

http://forum.thedieselpage.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006575

Also, take a look at HowieE's web site which illustrates this situation.

[rjschoolcraft]

Spindrift...

I'm not all that anxious to spend money either... especially my own. I did everything before buying the fan clutch. I had the radiator out and cleaned. I even installed the dual thermostat cross over housing and high volume water pump... still overheated when towing. The final piece of the puzzle was the Kennedy fan clutch. Oh, and the intercooler helped a lot too.

My reluctance to spend money came from a mistaken assumption that GM wouldn't have blown the thermal management analysis that badly and surely it would work if everything were right. Bottom line... GM blew it and the aftermarket has corrected the problem.

[Spindrift]

RJ,

I made some very basic assumptions before I responded to Keith. They are:
</font> Temperatures in the MidAtlantic and NorthEastern sections of the country rarely, rarely reach the highs which I have seen you record after some of your past towing experiences.</font></font> You possibly tow heavier than Keith.</font></font> Keith's truck has a 4" exhaust.</font></font> I've learned to take small steps before big ones.</font></font> I probably tow heavier than Keith and I haven't seen (not yet anyway) 210-220 degree engine temps since I performed a major cleaning. I also use synthetics.</font></font> We both have '98 trucks.</font>
This has been my experience. It makes sense to me that you would do the simplest, least expensive thing first. Drive your rig and measure the results. If the rad and cooler cleaning wasn't enough, go to next step. Simple.

[Turbine Doc]

Spin, depends where he is monitoring temp also, (Keith what trans temp you monitoring, pan or return oil) my sensor is in the pan, I'm running 170 or less running empty, 180-190 if towing heavy 19K combined truck & load wt, I have deep pan and remote trans cooler with fan, fan is broken right now, got a rock & some mud in it, that kept it from spinning and burned the motor, figures out what that smell was too late, need a mud screen and a smaller fuse for the circut than what Deraile recommended.

[Spindrift]

Tim,

You raise a good point: coolant, engine oil, or tranny oil? I made the assumption that Keith was talking about coolant temp. But then, I make assumptions all day long...it's my job. :D

[Turbine Doc]

Spin evidently I was the one doing the assuming redface.gif , some how I got it in my head, we were talking about a trans problem, don't know why, maybe got it Korn-fused from another thread. On re-read I don't see where Keith mentions seeing high trans temp, Keith for clarification you talking coolant temp(H2O) of the engine or sumthin else, before I git ervr-body side tracked.

[rjschoolcraft]

I made some assumptions, too. I assumed that cleaning the radiator would be the logical first step. That was for me. I honestly thought that by going to the later model cooling system and cleaning the junk out from in front of the radiator, my cooling problems would be gone. They weren't. Anyway, no hard feelings.

[Keith Richards]

Yeah guys,I was talking about coolant temps.I dont have any other guages yet.

[Turbine Doc]

Found my error was thinking I was posting an answer to T.J's trans temp thread, I hate this getting old crap, would not remember my head if it wasn't attached.

[WhiteGMC]

Keith,
I went from Chiefland Florida to Yuma, Az in Feb on the way my wastegate went out and had a lot of black smoke! I kept my foot out of it an made it to Yuma...called JK and got new wastegate then had a noise and replaced the fan clutch. Helped a little on the noise. Left yuma April 1 between Las Cruces and Alamogordo, NM my temp got so hot I stopped and let it cool, when I got back to Mi I found the trouble...Crankshaft pulley rubber shot!

Jerry