A mail from Stanadyne ( PMD )

[Christian Rokhgar]

I wrote a mail to Stanadyne to let them know the pain I had with the PMDs and how funny a stalling engine in heavy traffic can be.
Check out this joke:

Dear Sir,

Our experience shows that in most instances that when people think their Pump Mounted Driver has failed, that it actually has not. There are many other things in the GM 6.5L system that may lead people to think the PMD has failed. One that comes to mind is the vehicle PCM itself which occasionally can send incorrect signals to the PMD causing engine stalling and leading people to think the PMD has failed. The best advice I have is to find someone who is very familiar with the GM 6.5L application and have proper diagnostics performed. Some of our Authorized Distributors and Dealers can do this. A complete listing of them can be found on our website at www.stanadyne.com (http://www.stanadyne.com) in the Dealer Locator feature. As far as actual PMD failuress, we have also found that remote mounting PMD's can cause them to fail and if a new harness is not installed with a replacement PMD that this can lead to arcing in the connector and subsequent PMD failure.

Sincerely,
Mark Dionne
Manager, Product Support
Stanadyne Corporation

[Low_Bridge]

)($%&*^#!%^$()&#$@%^&%^$!!!!!!!!!

UUURGHHH!!!!!

The King has no clothes!

[Cowracer]

Originally posted by Christian Rokhgar:
I wrote a mail to Stanadyne to let them know the pain I had with the PMDs and how funny a stalling engine in heavy traffic can be.
Check out this joke:

Dear Sir,

Our experience shows that in most instances that when people think their Pump Mounted Driver has failed, that it actually has not. There are many other things in the GM 6.5L system that may lead people to think the PMD has failed. One that comes to mind is the vehicle PCM itself which occasionally can send incorrect signals to the PMD causing engine stalling and leading people to think the PMD has failed. The best advice I have is to find someone who is very familiar with the GM 6.5L application and have proper diagnostics performed. Some of our Authorized Distributors and Dealers can do this. A complete listing of them can be found on our website at www.stanadyne.com (http://www.stanadyne.com) in the Dealer Locator feature. As far as actual PMD failuress, we have also found that remote mounting PMD's can cause them to fail and if a new harness is not installed with a replacement PMD that this can lead to arcing in the connector and subsequent PMD failure.

Sincerely,
Mark Dionne
Manager, Product Support
Stanadyne Corporation Dear Mr. Dionne,

I am from Missouri. So you will forgive me for not taking your word as gospel.

Please forward all technical information (Blueprints, schematics, wiring diagrams, component values, circuit board layouts, etc.) regarding the PMD so that I may acertain for myself that the Stanadyne PMD is not at fault regarding my recent stalling problems.

If the Stanadyne PMD is faultless in the all-to-familiar stalling probems with GM Diesels, I challenge you to prove it by supplying me with the requested technical information.


Tim Streisel
Imperial, MO

[DmaxMaverick]

I find it very interesting that replacing the FSD fixes all those failed connectors and PCM's.

[Low_Bridge]

Guys I'm sorry to be mostly around when there's a problem- BUT

Go figure the truck I bought was worked on for 6 mos to no avail to try & fix the stalling problem to my benefit the owner was sinking over 500 a month trying to DX it!

After carefully studying all the information a know it all red neck dumb a@# like me not only figured out it was the problem but replaced it without intake removal or pump turning.

But I just expect to have to replace w/in 20 K miles.

And NO I wouldn't let my wife drive this truck (over a month) until I had time to fix it!
Thanks diesel pages

Mama Loves her Truck
:cool:

[ 10-05-2004, 06:21 AM: Message edited by: Bill D'Addio ]

[Christian Rokhgar]

Edited for duplicate post

[ 10-05-2004, 02:57 AM: Message edited by: ToddMeister ]

[Christian Rokhgar]

What says the U.S law to this situation? Where are the customer rights?
I almost crashed into a car because the engine stalled in a slow curve and I had suddenly no power steering.

The extended GM warranty up to 120.000 miles is senceless since the 6.5L makes 300.000 without mechanical problems, well you have to change the pump three times and always keep a spare FSD in your truck for the case.

I won

[gmenor]

Has anyone out there actually hit someone or been hit by someone due to PMD failure? I almost been rear ended by a military truck because of a PMD failure. Not having any power doing 50 mph can be nerve racking.

[autocrosser]

As I one posted previously if everyon that had a problem with the PMD's failling filed a report with the Nat Transportaion Safety Commity (which can be done on the internet) we might get something done. I also had a near problem while oulling a travel trailer and rounding a curve. The only thing that save me wat alertness tow what was heppening.

[Turbine Doc]

Christian you got an address on this guy I'd like to send him a note myself, obviously this guy is toting corporate line.

Ain't no wonder this thing is still broke after all these years, I'm on FSD 3 myself actually would be 6 if you throw in the 3 times I recovered FSD #2 with a retorque of the transistor lock nuts, fix EVERY TIME was FSD replacement.

Maybe we ought educate him via email and letter mail what a PITA this problem really is. Won't do much good probably but will maybe give him some of the anxiety ( redface.gif another PMD/FSD fail letter-will they ever stop!!! redface.gif ) we have been feeling wondering if we can make it round the block or not.

Its ridiculious for me to have to carry a $300 spare part in the glove box so I can get home; and nothing better than the feeling of pulling a 12K load and having the engine go dead in traffic.

[Christian Rokhgar]

Hi Tim,

The Stanadyne guys address is

mdionne@stanadyne.com

I like the idea with the Nat Transportaion Safety Commity, autocrosser.

I will work on that.

Chris

[Marty Lau]

I'm not a big fan of law suits and the like but when ignoring a known problem what about a class action suit??? Any litagation Lawyers on The Page?

[VA_GMC]

I doubt my wife will ever drive my truck again. After stalling about a dozen times in one afternoon (and finally getting towed home) I don't know that she would be able to keep control in a turn or in traffic with no power steering and brakes.

I've got a spare mounted on the truck now and I keep two screwdrivers in the glove box.

Recalling the tailgate straps (which also broke when loading one day) and not recalling the PMD seems a bit rediculous when you think about the potential for injury.

[markrinker]

You can't recall/replace what you haven't corrected! To date, even the relocation efforts here on the DP are inconclusive. The fundamental design of the IP and its PMD are flawed.

The answer? Duramax.

[Andy Chesek]

Mark,

Wouldn't a cheaper answer be to convert the 6.5L to mechanical injection? I guess emissions might be an issue... I've got a manual tranny, so I guess it'd be easier to do on my truck than an auto from what I gathered.

[Turbine Doc]

While not trying to sound like a cheerleader, the Heath kit IMO is the way to go, I think there is significant evidence heat is a major player, in FSD fails. Whether you use a Heath kit, or a Beta, or DSG, they need to be out of the engine bay or if in engine bay need aux fan to move air across them.

In my points to ponder post earlier in the year http://forum.thedieselpage.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006671#000000 I captured some data showing that air flow is required to make the Beta/DSG cooler work at peak efficiency. Bill at Heath Diesel warrants his rig for 3 years, and says only 3 or 4 fails since 94 using his method, I now have 500 mi on mine, so far so good, others in the forum have posted good result with that kit.

I still think we ought to flood Stanadyne-GM-& NTHSA with complaints, those out of warranty on an engine designed theoretically for + 200K of service should have this covered for the life of the engine at a minimum; a study & solution for a permanent fix would be better.

If mechanical IP is only permanent solution then GM should have to pay for the conversion, wishful thinking.

[ 10-07-2004, 05:28 AM: Message edited by: tbogemirep ]

[rjschoolcraft]

So, Heath had a cooler out in 94? The very first year the electronic pumps were available? Heath had the problem fixed before anyone else really knew it was a problem?

[Turbine Doc]

That would make sense prior to 94 no need for a fix, then again I might have gotten the introduction date wrong I suggest you call him, I'm sure he will fill you in on the history.

One thing that leads to credibility of his fix claims/efforts, is that in describing behind scenes that led to development to his kit; was that his version of the DS4 historical problems is very close to what Sam Scheffer from Gomers Diesel wrote in the 2001 Diesel Page feature articles. I have not ever felt that Bill or any other Diesel Page vendor for that matter has misled me in their claims.

I have only 500 mi on this one I bought from him, The FSD cooler I bought previusly and ran only made the FSD last 50K mi, it was installed per the vendors instruction, and FSD only lasted 2 years.

I had and still have a glove-box spare, if the Heath one craps out and leaves me stranded I'll post that, but one feature that was a plus was the 3yr warranty.

Maybe this isn't the ultimate fix, I tried one product that was an improvement, but still left me stranded, now I'm trying a different one, hopefully I can get more than 50K miles out of it.

[damork]

Christian Rokhgar,

I talked with Mark, the person you got the email from a couple of years ago, and I worked with one of his friends as well. They are helpful until you start talking about our electronic pumps. I think they almost have to follow a script now.

With so many potential legal issues with the wrong words spoken, they cannot say anything more than they do. I really question how a company that makes pumps which attach to engines will survive the new trend where fuel systems are integrated into the engines like they are.

[twaddle]

PMD/FSD failures,
I have a 96 suburban that I shipped from Texas to Scotland January 2002, 92000miles on it at time.
Shortly after it arrived the stalling commenced usually every 7 weeks or so.
Replaced PMD also fitting cooler on intake manifold, problem solved, or so I thought.
The next year was spent cleaning and recleaning connections, increasing earth (ground) cables and wires which did seem to improve things. After about 1 year and 15000miles on the "new" PMD it failed big time. Engine would not even fire up after a spell of very frequent stalling.
At the time there had been a thread on TDP about retorqueing the nuts that hold on the transisters on the PMD.
It was suggested that if you had an old "failed" PMD an experiment could be tried using it again with the transisters retorqued.
The PMD I am now using, Since September last year is the "failed" original Texas PMD with the transisters retorqued. Running great, Touch wood.
The experiment continues.

Why does Stanadyne only warranty the PMD's for 3 months if they are so good?

Funny how you learn to quick draw for Hazard light switch when the truck stalls!

How about a vote category for the retorqued previously failed PMD's

Regards

Jim Twaddle
Biggar, Scotland

[jjbouwens]

Chris: I tried to get into contact with GM from Switzerland but they refer to your local GM representation.To cut a long story short I did receive an e-mail from Opel-Switzerland telling me that I do enjoy the extended injection pump warranty but I have to go to one of the two dealers mentioned in the e-mail. I sometimes thought of the ambulances in Holland with stalling problems, I wonder what happens if ............
John Bouwens