Replace Idler arm

[wfyehl]

Both my Pitman arn and Idler arm are loose and need to be replaced. I am planning on doing this in a couple of weeks, so I would like some/any advice on doing this. When doing the idler arm, do you also replace the bracket pivot assemble that the Idler arm attaches to, or just the idler arm? Can you tell if this bracket assembly needs to be replaced prior to starting?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Bill

[MartyB]

Do not ask me how to do this yourself. But from having 2 of these style trucks, the idler arm does like to fail about every 70-100K miles or so. Moag makes a std and a heavy duty version. Try to get the bigger one, about 50% more than the std one the last time I got on for my 96 4 yrs ago. It does seem to last about double the life of the stock/std sized one from my experience.

[Hubert]

Yes, replace the 2 components: the idler arm & idler assembly they both wear. Its relatively easy compared to the pitman arm which was a PITA with 4wheel drive.

At around 100,000 miles I replaced both pitman and idler arms along with the inner and outer tierods both sides. The life of steering components depends on tire size and road conditions. But if both P. & I. arms are worn out then tie rods are probably worn out too. Then after I had my truck re-aligned the steering was so tight it took a little getting use to.

You'll need a pitman arm puller for the job. ~ $20 at Autozone etc. Or borrow/rent theirs. I raised the front up and set it on jack stands and took front wheels off for more room and ease of getting tie rods back in. With everything its was about a 4-5 hr job with a little help but I work slow and cleaned up too.

[wfyehl]

When I had the alignment done in October, they told me that my pitman arm and idler arm needed to be replaced. They didn't mention anything about the tie rods. I suppose I could check the tie rods for wear, or should I just replace them. They also didn't mention anything about the ball joints. Last I checked, they seemed pretty tight, also.

If the tie rods and ball joints check out OK, should I leave them? This Sub has 196K miles on it and I have only owned it for 55K of those miles. I have no idea what, if anything has been changed on the frontend. We only use this sub for highway travel. We tow a 12K lb boat twice a year, once to put it in the water, and once to pull it out at the end of the season. Just in the last couple of months I have noticed that the front end is a little loose. I will check out the front end in the next couple of weeks (when the weather stays in the 30's for more that two days).

I have the tools to change out the parts, but only want to change what is needed, not changing everything just in case.

Bill

[wfyehl]

Try to get the bigger one, about 50% more than the std one the last time I got on for my 96 4 yrs ago The moog part numbers that I can find for my Sub are:
</font> Pitman arm - K6335
Idler arm - K6447
Idler pivot assembly - K6532</font> Are these the 'bigger' ones, or just stock replacement? If these are the stock replacement, does anyone have the part numbers for the HD replacements?

Thanks,
Bill

[damork]

I replaced the idler assembly with arm as a unit. That was not difficult, but the pitman arm on the steering unit required a good puller. I found an OTC puller GM recommended on Toolparadise.com for about $50 which really did a great job.

Some have reported replacing the pitman arm on the steering gear without taking the gear out. Maybe so, but I opted to drop the gear down and do it where I could get some leverage on the nut. It worked well, and not bad as I expected. Just make sure you have long cheater bars and wrenches that fit. I also did all the tie rod ends while at it and the lower ball joints.

[Hubert]

Well at 196K miles all bets are off. I would think you are on at least the second of idler and or pitman and tie rods. The NAPA guy told me they sell a ton of steering components for GM trucks. Ball joints ??? could be original they are more trouble and expensive to change and they last a little longer but a 196K mi they are probably getting worn out. You'll need some more special tools (a ball joint press tool - you may be able to heat'em a little and beat em out but I would n't). They look like a PITA to me but I have not done mine yet. If they are factory they are riveted and pressed in. If they have been replaced they will have bolts and pressed in.

What kind of tire wear are you getting? Thats a pretty good indicator of bad linkages ie cupping and flat spots. I think scrubbing - feathered edge is ball joint. Depends on alignment too and tire size and style. Any pulling or just slop in steering. Really bad ball joints may pop and make noise when turned to the extreme and back.

A good alignment shop can tell you what needs to be replaced. You'll need to get it realigned if you change a couple of things anyway. A good shop may help diagnose it cheap if you promise the alignment to them after you replace what ever. See what they willing to negotiate. You may have to pay for the alignment up front etc. A good shop won't sell you an alignment unless the linkage components are good. If something is bad the alignment won't stay correct very long.

Dunno I have never bought a lifetime alignment maybe ask for some details on that kind of deal.

[rjschoolcraft]

My Suburban is at 224,000 miles with the original tie rod ends and ball joints. Still in good shape. I replaced the pitman and idler arms at 162,000. I did not replace the idler pivot assembly, as it was still tight. It has a grease zerk at the top, make sure you keep it greased. The pitman arm is much easier to change with the box out of the truck. It's not that hard to get out and I wouldn't recommend it any other way.

[MartyB]

Bill,

I will have to do some hunting to find the heavier duty idler arm #. It has been a few years since I put in on my 96, only to have it go south last year, along with the pitman and whom know what else, when the all of my steering went out pulling into a Safeway parking lot in Bend OR. I had been driving there earlier in the day from Seattle when I found out dad had blown his leg apart skiing earlier in the day. It could have gone out in the cascades while driving down hill, only to go off a cliff.

I got the part from a shucks, part of the krager family. I can call and see if they still list it. My tire shop was able to get on in the past also.

Marty

[wfyehl]

Originally posted by Hubert:
What kind of tire wear are you getting? Thats a pretty good indicator of bad linkages ie cupping and flat spots. I think scrubbing - feathered edge is ball joint. Depends on alignment too and tire size and style. Any pulling or just slop in steering. Really bad ball joints may pop and make noise when turned to the extreme and back.

A good alignment shop can tell you what needs to be replaced. You'll need to get it realigned if you change a couple of things anyway. A good shop may help diagnose it cheap if you promise the alignment to them after you replace what ever. See what they willing to negotiate. You may have to pay for the alignment up front etc. A good shop won't sell you an alignment unless the linkage components are good. If something is bad the alignment won't stay correct very long. Hubert,

The alignment shop told me that just the idler and pitman arms were bad. The outside edges of the front tires are worn some, but toe was quite off at that time. The front end just seems sloppy. The only pull that exists is when stopping, it tends to pull slightly to the left. I am going to swap the two front tires to see if that helps. I don't think I will be able to tackle these items for at least a week or so (the other vehicle needs attention).

Thanks,
Bill

[Hubert]

No flat spots or cupping of front tires or irregular / excessive wear then I would say just pitman arm and idler are worn. I would say at least 30-40% of my overall slop was the pitman arm alone. Your call on the tie rods they are not hard to change more a budget call. Price them for a few dollars more you have almost a new front end. From the sounds of it ball joints are probably ok.

At 200K miles I might save my money and not buy the expensive repalcements for idler and/or tie rods. They are relatively easy to change. Pitman I probably would buy the best again. You decide I can't say the actual joint is any better on the premium parts they just look more finished and slightly beefier to me. They still have to fit the taper of the holes so the bolts are the same size! again the "casing" just looks different. OEM grade is good enough for me most of the time.

I was running an aggressive mud tire similar to the Gumbo Mudder or the BF Mud TA. Its a tread pattern that does not wear very well to begin with plus I should have rotated them better. I had pretty bad cupping, flat spots, and significant uneven wear.

The shop I bought the new tires from would not even align it. Said it wouldn't do any good without changing the worn parts. I have heard you feel slop in the idler arm when the front end rides light (weight in back or towing). The pitman arm you are going to feel slop in all the time.

Note: I did take the steering box loose to get the pitman arm off but I did not take it out of the truck. Had someone hold it tilted so I could get to it. It was a PITA next time I will probably take it out.

Be careful taking bolts out of idler arm assembly or you'll drop'em in the frame. I suggest having an extendable magnet to retrieve just in case.

Also investigate Caster Adjustment. On my 97 K2500 PU it requires a dealer shim or pin kit. and is ~ $80 more additional to regular toe-in and chamber alignment. Some shops don't do it because it doesn't immdiately affect "alignment", or any pull but it may be off after ~ 200K miles. Have someone more knowledgeable explain Caster. I think long term it has more affect on steering staying aligned and tire wear while turning ???

Sorry for the long post.

[arrowheadracing]

Another thing to think about is , the cost of replacing everything right now vs replacing one part here , 30,000 miles later replacing another. If you do it yourself, ( its not that hard, but you need the right tools, get loaners from azone if you dont have them ) then you ll only be on your back once. If you have a shop do it, then getting it all done at once, means a cheaper labor job. I myself have 140,000 miles on my 95 2500 4x4. In the next month or two , I am going to replace everything on the truck and give it a 2-4 " lift. Probably just a 2" to clear my 33's. But I know that will affect life of the front end.

Good luck.
Todd

[wfyehl]

Well, it looks like I will be looking at the front end sooner as opposed to later. I need to do a brake job on the front end, so I will inspect all of the components. I'm hoping only the pitman and idler arms are in need of replacement.

BTW - when you replace tie rods, do you normally replace both inners and outers as a set, or can you just replace the outers if they are sloppy?

Bill

[JoeyD]

At your milage, replace all front end components and seeing how your doing brakes get new hub assembly's. It's all very easy to do just time and Money. The hubs from GM come with new rotors but do cost more.

[arrowheadracing]

I know its money, but if you can afford it , then replace everything. In the long run, you will be happy that you did. Replacing one piece, will just show you what the next weak link is. Until you eventually replace everything one part at a time. As for tie rod ends, I would replace both inner and outer at the same time. But thats falling under the replace everything category.

Good Luck
Todd

[wfyehl]

Well, after replacing the brake pads, I checked everything in the front end. The only part that has any slop in it is the idler arm. If the pitman arm has any slop in it, it is very slight. All of the ball joints are nice and tight, the rubber dust covers are not ripped or cut. The tie rods are also nice and tight. I could not get any unnecessary movement in any of the tie rods.

Right now, money is an object to replacing everything. The next brake job I will replace the rotors. They have a couple very slight grooves in them, but not enough to warrent a turning or replacement. We will be taking this SUB to Florida for the kids Spring Break, so I need to make sure it rides fine.

I have a hard time replacing parts just in case. I would rather wait until they actually show signs of wear and/or slop before replacing.

Thanks for all of the help and replies. I will be doing the Pitman and Idler arms in a couple of weeks, and might need to ask some more questions.

Thanks again,
Bill

[rjschoolcraft]

Based on my experience with my truck (posted above), I think you are making a wise choice. ;)

[wfyehl]

Well, I finally got the time to replace the idler arm and pitman arm. The idler arm replacement was straight-forward, but the pitmian arm was a PITA. First off I didn't have a wrench to fit the nut that held the pitman arm on to the steering gear. The service manual didn't list the nut size (1 5/16"). So I had to get a ride to Sears to get the correct size combination wrench. Since I didn't want to take the steering gear out of the truck, it took a while to move it into the correct position to get the puller onto it. There is no way to get a socket onto that nut, unless you remove the steering gear from the truck.

I'm glad that the job is done. The truck steering is nice a tight now. The pitman arm had just a slight amount of play in it, but the idler arm was in pretty bad shape.

I will take the truck in to have the alignment checked today.

Thanks for all the help.

Bill

[Barry Nave]

Bill
Should get together some time. Your only 20-25 miles away.

[patrick m.]

for those that like short cuts, do what i did.
use a cutting wheel on a small air grinder and cut a slot in the pitman arm watching carefully not to cut the steering gear shaft, once it is cut almost through a hammer and chisel will split it open with a few whacks. off she slides, took about 30 minutes

[wfyehl]

Bnave95,

That would sound good. It would be good to talk to someone local that knows these trucks.

BTW - my email address is: bill . yehle @ comcast . net (remove the spaces)

Bill

[TTM]

This is great, just replaced my idler arm last night..not to bad did had the 15/16 socket though and ya dropped on of the bolts into the frame but got it out though the tow hook, I had to cut a little hole in to metal fender backing to get at the one bolt on the idler arm bracket. I was just going to do the pitman arm tonight; my service manual says to take the steering gear off...did anybody have to bleed the system once the power steering hoses unhooked then hooked back up? My SM says to diconnect a clip in the steering shaft? I'm thinking that clip removes it from the shaft? and the shaft pulls out?

[wfyehl]

Originally posted by TTM:
This is great, just replaced my idler arm last night..not to bad did had the 15/16 socket though and ya dropped on of the bolts into the frame but got it out though the tow hook, I had to cut a little hole in to metal fender backing to get at the one bolt on the idler arm bracket. I was just going to do the pitman arm tonight; my service manual says to take the steering gear off...did anybody have to bleed the system once the power steering hoses unhooked then hooked back up? My SM says to diconnect a clip in the steering shaft? I'm thinking that clip removes it from the shaft? and the shaft pulls out? TTM,

I dropped the bolt and socket into the frame doing the idler arm, also. I had to take the tow hook off, then use an extendable magnet to get them out. I also had to bend the inner fender well out of the way to get the socket onto the bolt head. I don't understand why GM didn't use longer bolts similar to the ones used to hold the steering gear in.

On the pitman arm, I did not take the steering gear out, but had to buy a combination 1 5/16" wrench to get the nut off. My service manual didn't mention the size of the nut, and I didn't measure before I started. If you have another set of hands, you can change it without taking it out. I removed the bolt from the ball socket end (attached to the center link) then removed the nut from the steering gear. I then unbolted the steering gear and pushed it towards the firewall and tilted it up and held it there while my friend put the pitman arm puller on it and used an impact gun to get it off. BTW, I have a 4x4, it might be different with a 2wd.

I was worse than I wanted, but not too bad of a job. Since my brakes assist run off of the power steering, I didn't want to open up the system. Also, I didn't have any spare power steering fluid at my friend's workshop.

Bill

[JohnC]

No need to take it out. Remove the bolts and disconnect the other end of the arm. Rotate the box and push it up by collapsing the column until you can get the puller on it. (or try the cutter trick mentioned above...)