Gas/oil mix to help start?

[Bob's 6.5TD]

I was a long way from anywhere this morning when my 6.5 just wouldn't start. Glow plug problems I suspect. I finally noticed that my batteries were weakening, so as a last resort I poured just a little chainsaw fuel mix just ahead of my turbo. Started right up. How bad of a decision was that? What have others done in this case?

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
I've never had a problem with my 6.5, but I have used a rag soaked with gas to cover the air intake to start other NON-GLOW-PLUG diesels. That is the problem, people blowing themselves up with the glowplugs igniting the super-start-in-a-can. :eek:
I wouldn't think you hurt anything....
L8r
Conley

[DennisG01]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought I saw somewhere that you can use WD-40 as "starting fluid".

[Dvldog 8793]

Howdy
When I was in the MArines i would encourage the use WD40 vs. Either. The WD would sometimes do the trick and it wasn't as nasty as the either. I was dealing with vehicle DRIVERS that knew absolutly nothing about engine operation. MANY 6.2s grenaded due to the improper use of starting fluids.
L8r
Conley

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

I read somewhere (here on the Page I think) that WD-40 used to work really well as a start assist, but the reason was because the propellant was propane. So, the propane was what really helped the engine start. Apparently they don't use propane as the propellant anymore. (I have NO IDEA if the above is true or not; "We never repeat gossip, so listen close the 1st time.")

Blessings!

[markrinker]

Since we are on the topic of pouring or spraying things into our 6.5s, I will relay an experience that I will NEVER repeat. Maybe it will help someone else avoid the mistake.

A few days after buying my first diesel, I decided to do a driveway de-carbonizing before changing the nasty black sludge that was the oil it came with. With the engine running, I removed the CDR tube, inserted a funnel, and proceeded to pour small amounts of 'Sea Foam' - an additive that every good Minnesotan uses to keep gasoline engines running smoothly.

Everything went well at first, the exhaust pipe belching white smoke, and the engine bogging down slightly as I added progressively larger and larger doses. My goal was to eventually stall the engine, let it sit for 10 minutes, then refire and take it for a drive to clean everything out.

After the last can-emptying dose, the engine bogging down was replaced by a horrible piston-pounding, pre-igntion death rattle. The engine then went screaming into a full 9,000 rpm runaway condition that had me running for cover. (Sort of the same run you do from a hive of angry bees, but without all the arm flailing...definately the longest 5 seconds in my life.)

My moronic, nosy neighbor that was watching blew a whole beer out his nose and went into an uncontrollable laughing fit right there in my driveway. After he recovered, he tried to look concerned, but you could tell he was going into work early the next day to tell his buddies.

Later I READ THE DIRECTIONS the Sea Foam can. It said to mix it 50/50 with diesel for use on diesel engines. I never had the nerve to try it again. I think instead it should have a warning label that says:

DO NOT USE ON YOUR DIESEL ENGINE. FOR USE ONLY ON YOUR NOSY NEIGHBOR'S DIESEL ENGINES.

Luckily, the original '94 engine is still running strong at 160K miles and over 3 years later.

[ 10-26-2005, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: Mark Rinker ]

[Hubert]

I tried to ask this once: What can you use for "starting aid" in a 6.5.

Most said you should use nothing! In a pinch; Some said you can use WD-40, or similar snake oil juice that is NOT ether based. IE diesel with a lot of Cetane, my choice: 3 in 1 starting fluid (the engine conditioner top cylinder lubricant -no ether stuff), or similar. You should disable the glow plugs and use with care. Don't use something too explosive ie with too low of flash point and don't use too much right at first - you don't want it to pre-ignite too harshly and compression lock up the engine. One suggestion is to have some one crank engine and sparingly introduce the stuff a little at the time and hope it will cough and sputter to life.

The engine has to be spinning over fairly quickly. I would not use anything if its just barely turning cranking on the starter. You don't want it to build up a little charge in the cylinder and boom if it ignites with the wrong timing.

I too have bled injectors on an old diesel tractor using a gas soaked rag at the air intake to crank & run engine. It will pre-ignite and knock badly but short term and once in a blue moon won't kill it instantly.

IMHO I think you can help it to start. But don't force it to start.

[Bob's 6.5TD]

As usual for me I'm just now able to review the responses, 5 days later.
I must say Mark I have never laughed at anything I've ever read on this forum like I did reading your experience! Thanks! I needed it! I think I found it so funny because, man, I could see where it was heading and I could see it happening to me! At the time of my starting problem, I didn't know what to expect, using something to help it along, but I knew I was miles from anyone else being able to see it go wrong.
I had at my disposal, propane, which I considered, (my thought was they actually put it on diesels to boost power somehow, but I didn't know how, or how to get it in there) gasoline, and gasoline/oil mix (chainsaw fuel), I opted for the gas/oil mix due to the oil reducing the vaporizing of the gasoline somewhat, and possibly reducing the volatility of the gasoline fumes. I probably didn't put much more than 1 table spoon in. It really didn't seem to start a whole lot different than it does if I don't let the glow plugs heat long enough.
The experience made wonder, can you flood a diesel like a gas burner?

[Kidd]

Sure, you can flood a diesel. Just keep cranking when the glow plugs are toast and watch the fuel drip out of the exhaust. :D

Been there, done that.. :(

K.D.

[DmaxMaverick]

Flood a Diesel? Nope. Can't do it like a gasser.

All that fuel will build up in the intake and cylinders. Once there is enough heat to start combustion, it will burn every bit of the fuel, with the engine running away with nothing to govern it.

I've seen a Cummins 400 Big Cam run high enough to sweep the tach and toast the engine (idiot tried to prime the engine after a filter change--wasn't me). Thought it was never going to come back down.

Too much fuel and it can hydrolock, causing all kinds of hate and discontent. There's not much room in the chamber.

Diesel fuel doesn't follow the same rule as gasoline. Gas requires a pretty specific air/fuel mixture (ideally ~15:1) to combust under compression. Too far off that, and it won't ignite in an engine. Diesel fuel is much less demanding, only requiring a little O2, compression, and heat. It will burn off as much fuel as there is O2, and continue doing so until either one is exhausted.

[rjschoolcraft]

Mark, thanks for the belly-laugh...

Back to the point, I've started 6.2's and 6.5's with ether by FIRST disabling the glow system. It's best to crank and spray lightly at the same time as suggested above.

The glow plugs causing all cylinders to try to fire at once is the real problem with ether. If the glow system is disabled, there is little danger with light doses of ether.