Any truck pulling experience out there?

[markrinker]

I live 3 blocks from our county fairgrounds, where each summer there is a truck pull. Alot of the local guys turn out with their diesel rigs.

As many of you already know, I run two 1994 6.5TD flatbeds. They are 3500 series trucks with single (not dually) rear end with 4.10 gears.

Question: I would like to compete this summer, and spend a 'reasonable' amount to be competetive. Aside from the obvious exhaust, chip, and boost modifications,

1) what 'short-burst' overfueling methods are possible for the 15-20 seconds of pulling time?
Nitrous? Propane? AOL 9.0 Top Speed? (haha)

Extra credit:

2) What weight class would be best to compete in? The truck weighs 6,800 lbs.

3) What range - 4low or 4high would be the best for maximizing momentum vs. torque?

Also, if anyone has a spare 4.10 gear dually rear, I am in the market smile.gif

[Jim P]

Mark,

I have no experience pulling one of these diesel trucks but I sure would like to pull mine. My wife says that if I do, she will divorce me.

I did pull an old 72 international truck one time. It had a 345 gasser and a 4 speed transmission. I pulled it in 4 wheel low with the tranny in second gear but it ran out of power. I got to try again because I was the first puller. So I put in 1st this time and revved it up a little before letting out the clutch. This time it twisted the rear driveshaft. I had to take off the rear driveshaft and drive it home with front wheel drive.


I don't know too much about these newer 3500 trucks but my 2500 hd has the independent front suspension as apposed to the older straight axles. These may work fine but the older fords that had the independent front suspension used to wheel hop real bad at the pulls.

As far as power goes, I know that propane does help but some places won't let you run it. I think water injection would be a big help too along with a chip.

I don't know what you have for competition around you but I know of one dodge around here that is running twin chargers that produce 100 psi boost and it puts out about 1000 hp. So if you have competion like that, the 6.5 is probably not going to cut it.

By the way, if you want the dual rear wheel axle for pulling, They had a class at our local fair that had both single and dual rears. The singles would pull just as much if not more because on the duals, the rear end gets too much bite and takes the weight off the front tires.

[ 02-23-2004, 03:59 PM: Message edited by: Jim P ]

[markrinker]

There is some sort of 'street stock' class - I am getting the rules this week.

I have no plans to make this into a puller truck, just would like to turn it up for the event and return to 'stock' settings for the rest of the year.

Don't plan on any trophies, just want to participate and do the best I can with my most of my investment retained for normal road/plowing use.

[Jim P]

That is basically what I would like to do with mine. Just go and have a little fun.

There is that one problem with my wife divorcing me but like that country song about the wife that says if he goes fishing today, she is going to leave him. He pause for a second and then says "I'm gonna miss her".

[markelectric]

You guys may want to talk to Bill Heath. He has some experience in drag racing with a 6.5. I dont know of anyone with more knowledge of these engines that is more willing to share it.

[JoeyD]

I go to the pulls with my truck. I use 4lo and manually shift the truck. It helps hold the gear longer. My truck has a 4in ex and a 3 in downpipe and a boost controller. The truck runs good and is competitive with the other brands, D-max included as long as they are stock. Good tires are important, I run BFG AT's and they are popular at the tracks. I could use more fuel as the EGT doesn't break 800 as it's over in 10- 15 seconds. Get Heaths program to run while pullin and his turbo master to keep your boost alive. Oh and have fun.

[Jim P]

Joey D,

Do you have any problem with wheel hop of the front wheels? Also did you ever twist any axles or driveshafts?

[JoeyD]

No wheel hop or breakage. One thing is you don't floor it when leaving the line. It's not timed so just roll the power on smooth as glass until your on the floor board. You can feel the truck stop and just start to dig in then let off and it's over. It is lots of fun and won't hurt your truck, unless a part is on the edge. I just ordered Bill Heaths water injection a few minutes ago and it should help the power

[markrinker]

Joey -

What you describe is exactly what I want to do - but with one added twist.

I'd like a button to push about mid-track that would overfuel the engine to match the extra boost I would already have dialed in using the Turbo-Master. Some type of solenoid actuated control for 10 seconds of 'ludicrous fuel'.

[dieseldummy]

I went to the pull at our local fair last fall and they didn't allow nitrous or propane. If I do it again i want to turn up my fuel rate as high as I can, but I guess that isn't really an option with a DS4 pump for you. There was another 6.5 when I went, he was intercooled and said he had his pump turned up all the way. The only pickup that beat him was a 2003 Dodge with a cummins, I don't even think that the Duramax beat him. I think that these pickups have quite a bit of potental, ya just have to play around to find it.
Justin

[rjschoolcraft]

The wheel hop issue is a Ford thing... because of that stupid twin I-beam suspension they used then. If you study the geometry of that suspension, you would never, ever want to use it on anything. One of their "better ideas." :rolleyes:

[markrinker]

If the rules disallow nitrous or propane, I'll probably pass on the whole thing, as I know about what I'll get out of exhaust/chip/boost improvements.

Too bad you couldn't simply dump a small amount of additional diesel (a 'legal' fuel) somewhere along the intake - or could you? (Remember, I am only talking about a few seconds here, and after the engine is already spun up to max RPM...)

What would the effect be of additional fuel being carried into the cylinders out of sequence with the injectors?

[rjschoolcraft]

Bad!!!!! :eek: :eek:

[Marty Lau]

Originally posted by Joey D:
. I just ordered Bill Heaths water injection a few minutes ago and it should help the power Joey D;
Hey would you be kind enough to keep us posted on the water injecton? I would like to know what your using for a water tank and were your mounting it. I would like to add the h2o injecton with a tank mounted under the truck so I don't lose any bed space. I also have extended cab short box.

[markrinker]

So the difference with nitrous or water mist is that neither is a fuel, right? One carrys additional oxygen and the other lowers combustion chamber temperatures.

How does that explain propane? Obviously, it can be compressed without ignition. Is it simply stable enough to only ignite once the diesel ignites?

[Jim P]

I did some experimenting with propane on my old David Brown Tractor. I read somewhere that the propane acts like a catalyst to make every molecule of fuel and air to find each other and allow a more complete combustion.

I used a benzomatic torch that had the orifice removed to allow the propane to come out faster. I slid a rubber gas line over the end of the torch and attached the other end to the intake manifold.

Now this was no scientific approach but I hooked a chain from the david brown to my backhoe, which is heavier. I think I put it in 4th gear and let the clutch out. the tractor would run out power and stall. The next time I turned on the propane and let the clutch out. This time the tractor would not stall. It would dig holes to china if you let it. Now, while it was digging holes, I would turn off the propane and it would then stall.

This, as crued as it was, proved to me that the propane did help. I was going to try it at the tractor pulls but propane is not allowed and I had no way to turn it off and on without people seeing me. So I never did try it.

[JoeyD]

Any suspension can have wheel hop. The IFS can with soft bushings just like a 4 link like the Dodge. My truck will wheel hop in the sand bad if you don't baby the throttle.
I will post the results of the water injection as soon as I get it. Tank? Don't know yet, same with location. It will start in the bed until I can think of something creative. I trust Bill in that the system will work like he says and I may just install my turbo master while I am at it. It has been sitting long enough :D

[rjschoolcraft]

I've thrashed a lot of four wheel drive vehicles in a lot of different conditions. Two of those were IFS Chevys. I have never experienced wheel hop or "wheel sag" period. I've seen Fords lay down in the front end in deep mud. The wheels would just curl under and hang the truck. Not so with the Chevy IFS. Ball joints and bushings must have to be completely shot for wheel hop to occur with this design. For one thing, the linkage arrangement and type of motion is completely different for the Chevy IFS as opposed to the old Ford IFS. Why do you think Ford abandoned theirs?

[HANK1948]

When you guys pull your trucks do they throw the black smoke out? how much boost are you running? I have watched some diesel pulls and they really throw the smoke out, I know these are modified also