My 18:1 engine is not running.. Oops, spoke too soon...

[john8662]

Tonight marks an exciting day. My nearly 8 month engine ordeal is nearing it's end.

I spend the weekend installing the engine, took me all weekend by myself to get the engine installed.

At 9:30pm tonight I finally got close enough to get the new engine started. I had already bled the lines and cranked the engine over w/o glow plugs until I had oil presure. So, when I got ready to crank the engine it actually started on the first long slow crank.

Sounds nice, definitly a different sounding engine.

A couple of observations so far. I've got to find a new turbo because my used GM8 I installed is junk makes 3 psi of boost then makes a noise. I found this out on my little round around the block. Anyone got a source for a reman on a budget?

Specs on the build to come, as well as pictures and a movie.

J

[ 10-21-2005, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: john8662 ]

[dieseldummy]

John,
It's very good to hear that you finally got the burban running again. :cool: That turbo offer I made before still stands... I bet this motor will last forever for you.

Justin

[TJ]

Big J,
I've got a GM-8 in the garage that has about 40K on it...customer claimed an oil leak on it. Seems I got ahold of it somehow!

Later,
T

[rjschoolcraft]

Congratulations! :cool:

[arveetek]

Congrats, John!

Any timing gear noise?

Casey

[eracers999]

Way to go John, im HAPPY for you!!

Kent

[Cowracer]

Congrats John!

RJ will show you the 18:1 club secret handshake.

Tim

[Kennedy]

On the turbo, I guess I'd first check that the shaft cannot be deflected (finger load) so that the wheels can contact the housing.

[john8662]

Thanks guys!

I should have the burb back on the road later this week. Gotta get registration tags, inspection, and insurance back on the rig, and put the hood back on, etc.

I'm thinking for the time being, I'll swap on the ol GM4 turbo off the original engine (after I take it apart to clean it properly). I was thinking of using the GM8 exhaust housing on the GM4 turbo.

Casey,

no timing set noise just yet, but I haven't had the engine running long enough to get the oil thin, I'll keep ya posted on it tho.

Cowracer,

Secret handshake, count me in! RJ?

Kennedy,

The turbo has about 2x more play than the old one did when I really got to feeling the sideplay. When I re-installed my polished compressor housing on the GM8 I noticed that if I pressed hard I could make it slightly contact on part of the rotation, but this was with no oil in it yet. I can't make it contact now that it's got oil in it, but I think It's gone IMHO, I just need a new center section.

Justin,

Lemme try my old turbo so I'll have something to compare to on the new engine, the Holset is probably a great bet though.

Turbo considerations:

Holset HY35
Peninsular non wastegated turbo
Rebuild the GM8

Biggest hurdle will be getting this engine broke in w/o wanting to play.

Break in suggestions?

[rjschoolcraft]

Originally posted by john8662:
Break in suggestions? HAMMER DOWN!

I pulled mine hard almost immediately. Just avoid running one speed for an extended period of time until after about 500 - 700 miles.

[Kennedy]

Get the turbo fixed first of course. Cylinder psi seats rings. The Peninsular is a nice unit, but an odd match for the 6.5 and needs a lot of load/solid RPM to make boost.

[JohnC]

Originally posted by ronniejoe:
Just avoid running one speed for an extended period of time until after about 500 - 700 miles. Can someone PLEASE give me a rational reason why this matters?

[Cowracer]

I can think of two reasons. When varing speed, you are accelerating and decelerating. You are getting load on both sides of all bearings in drive and coast conditions.

I imagine that the accelration combustion pressures help seat the rings better as well.

tim

[TurboDiverArt]

Originally posted by JohnC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ronniejoe:
Just avoid running one speed for an extended period of time until after about 500 - 700 miles. Can someone PLEASE give me a rational reason why this matters? </font>[/QUOTE]I know the answer for a gasser but I don't know if it applies to a diesel. When breaking in a gas-motor I was always taught to not hold the same RPM but to rather vary slightly on and off the gas. This creates varying pressures and vacuum conditions flexing the rings so that they seat properly against the cylinder walls. I've built plenty of gas motors and have never had a problem with rings seating after many, many miles. In the race motors we don't have the luxury of a lengthy break-in so we just hammer them but then they are not expected to last for 100K. Again, never had ring-seating problems.

I have no idea if this applies to diesels.

Art.

[Tough Guy]

Great news John! I guess we will see you and your Burb at the next Rendezvous!!! :D

Chris

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by JohnC:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ronniejoe:
Just avoid running one speed for an extended period of time until after about 500 - 700 miles. Can someone PLEASE give me a rational reason why this matters? </font>[/QUOTE]Actually, the idea is to lean into it for several seconds and then back out to allow the particles generated to wash away. Lather, rinse, repeat... :D

[C.K. Piquup]

Great news,John!A movie?Oh boy!Hey wait a minute,when do I get shown the handshake?

[gmctd]

Congrats, John.

FYI - the internals from the GM-4 cartridge - shaft, bearings and wheels - fit the GM-8 turbo cartridge.

However - none of the external housing castings - compressor housing, exhaust elbow - are interchangeable between the cartridges.

Pull the GM-8 rotating assy, clean the cartridge casting, install the cleaned GM-4 rotating assy, using the Diesel motor oil of your choice.

Check the axial and radial clearances by finger, like JK mentioned.

Install the GM-8 - then, search for a Holset HX-35 off a '94-98 Cummins.

[john8662]

As promised, here are some specifications of the new engine and some pictures to follow.

6.5L Caterpillar:

* .030" Overbore '599 Seasoned Block
* Splayed Mains - Align Bored
* 18:1 Compression Ratio Marine Pistons
* Ceramic Coated Piston Tops
* DSG Phaser Gear Drive
* Balanced Rotating Assembly
* Matched Compression and rod length
* Ported Heads - Intake
* Ceramic Coated exhaust ports in heads and under precup
* Dual Thermostats, with 180 R/S Stats installed
* New GM 130 GPM Waterpump
* Hi-pop Hi-flow Marine Injectors
* DS4 5942 Injection Pump
* Gasket Matched Lower Intake manifold
* KD Quickheat Glowplug
* KD 180 Fan Clutch with Dmax shaved fan (not shroud)
* Block/tins painted "Old CAT Yellow"

There are other things bolted onto the engine and sub that I haven't listed though...

Pictures...

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/01.jpg

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/02.jpg

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/03.jpg

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/04.jpg

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/05.jpg

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/06.jpg

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/07.jpg

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/www/sub/08.jpg


OH.. still working on the movie with audio...

[Tough Guy]

Nice work! It's amazing how much yellow is gone after the install!

Chris

[5.7L oldsdiesel]

John,

Looks absolutely amazing!You did an awesome job with that engine.You can certainly tell that everything is well detailed.Looks fabulous.

I'm rebuilding my 79'Olds 350 diesel.I'm getting the cylinder block ready for the .030 overbore tommorrow with new sealed power .030 pistons with perfect circle rings.I've got ARP hardware,aluminum underdrive pulleys,chrome valve covers,chrome oil pan with a high performance billet oil pump drive shaft with alot more goodies.I'm thinking about painting it GM blue or corporate blue.But i certainly like that CAT yellow.

Again John,Great job! smile.gif

[20050420|7|006071|000022|69.19.2.78]

wow......... thats a very nice engine and even with very nice power......... :cool: :D

[Kennedy]

So has running progressed to driving/road ready yet?

What's a DS4 5942 pump?

[rjschoolcraft]

Intercooler!!!!

INTERCOOLER!!!!

Get one...

[john8662]

Kennedy,

The pump is supposedly the newest pump out. It was a brand new DS4 pump, I thought 5521 was the latest, I guess not.

Friends,

I'm afraid I've got some bad news..

I went out to the shop to swap out turbo's and go for a drive.

The good news is the turbo was working great.

I went out for a drive down the block nearest the shop. I noticed the engine sounded kind of rough when I first cranked it, and that there was a little noise. I thought nothing of it and figured it would go away after it warmed up, like it was air or something.

Anyways, I started an acceleration where I could build some boost, I got to about 5psi then the engine started making noises, so I let my foot of the petal and figured it would die and I would be walking. A very loud "huffing" noise was coming from the engine, and it was running VERY rough.

So, Do I kill it right there and push it back to the shop (about 2 blocks)? No, I baby it back to the shop, making the noise, then quitting making the noise, then making it again.

I get it into the shop and start thinking of what the heck it could be.

Maybe I forgot to tighten an glowplug good or something?

Took stuff apart, burned my hand trying to get to the glows, everything tight, checked the injectors, etc.

Then cranked up the engine again, still running like crap and making an expensive noise.

Flexplate?

So, I remove the crossover pipe, then the inspection cover, nothing out of the ordinary there...

Crank again, notice that it's smoking quite a bit while it's running rough. pull breather, yep, blowby.

Say the heck with it and go to the house for something to drink.

Then I remember that I left my cell out at the shop.

Grr..

So, go out to the shop with the laptop to make a recording for the Avant guys who put this engine together.

So, crawl back underneath, install the crossover pipe again, then start the laptop recording..

Crank the engine over, it dies! What? It's never done this before, and I'm sure the air is out by now. Try again, die, then again, it stays running with a little petal. But wait, no noise, but lots of smoke. Anyways, I rev it up a little for the recording, the engine then smooths out, I'm confused, the whole time of me reving the engine I never exceed 1500 RPM.

Towards the end of the recording, the knock comes back, you'll hear it, it was in the recording all along if you listen for it. The knock you hear at the end is the noise it was making before my trip to the house and letting it sit for 30 minutes...

So here is the clip 3.x MB Mp3 audio (http://members.cox.net/jtcs/65.mp3)

Guess I'm not done wrenching eh?

[Kennedy]

Hmmm, good luck. I hate when things like this happen. I'd say it was something minor, but it really doesn't sound like it. Not much more to say other than sorry to hear this.


On the pump last I heard 5521 was latest and I even called my guy to see what he knew. I have another source who primarily deals in new pumps. I'll check with him.

[john8662]

Kennedy,

Thanks for the listen.

here is the number off the pump:

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/all/DS4s.jpg

[john8662]

Well guys,

just couldn't leave things alone, I had to go back out to the shop tonight and try another "theory" in that when I was playing with it earlier I never put it in gear. So I figured it the flexplate was cracked that maybe it wouldn't make the noise w/o a load.

Hmm, I was wrong. I cranked on it while I had an observer looking the smoke, I was then summoned when it started to fire.

"The smoke is RED"

huh?

I had to see it to believe it, it's a pink/red/white cloud.

The clack was immediate when cranking.

Darn.

Ready to start over?

I'll keep you guys posted....

[dieseldummy]

Man, That sucks big time John. I know of the troubles you have had just getting the engine this far. To have something like this happen is the last thing I would have thought of. Hopefully Avant's come through on this, since it does sound like something internal. Maybe a broken skirt on one of the pistons causing alot of slap? I've heard of certain brands of pistons breaking in odd ways. BS like this is why I ended up buying a Dmax. I really hope this turns out good for you in the end. If there is any way I can help let me know.

Justin

[Barry Nave]

The Eng. sounds very much like my truck. Any chance of running the Eng. with vavle covers off.
Just at the end when it bangs,could it be vavle related? Stuck,sticking lifter? A broken piston skirt,would'nt it slap all the time? Are all the glow plug intack? Turbo held together? Droping oil pan could tell the story.
This would make me sick :eek: Still does and it's not my motor :(
The red smoke :confused:

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by john8662:
Kennedy,

Thanks for the listen.

here is the number off the pump:

http://members.cox.net/acmdsl/all/DS4s.jpg The labels typically used on a new DS pump are light blue. My sources have no reference to this number. I fwd them the image to see if they have ever seen anything like it. This MAY be something key, but you never know.

Is there a GM part number on the tag?

On edit: This is apparently a NEW pump that was a GM warranty unit according to a Stanadyne bulletin. Now how it got to where it did??? Only the seller knows.

John, did they use new casting aftermarket replacement heads on this engine?

[ 10-21-2005, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: kennedy ]

[rjschoolcraft]

This is 0 for 2 recently with the Avants... Other problems in the past. I certainly hope they take care of you like they did Cowracer, but I'd rather see it done right the first time!

[rjschoolcraft]

Are you using the extended life antiefreeze? Have you ckecked coolant level?

Man, I'm sorry you're going through this.

[mhagie]

pink,white,red smoke? Dex-cool?
When I recieved my engine from Avants it would run good at idle and very light load, apply a little load and it would knock.
Tried new injectors, tried loosening lines and listen for change in idle,couldn't notice anything to point to any one cylinder.
Finally a member here said to check injector lines for correct installation in the firing order,found that #7 & #8 were crossed at the pump, becuase the are next to each other in the firing order it made it more difficult to diagnose.
Bottom line is that the Avants do at times have a few quality control issues, on the positive side however they do stand behind their product and workmanship.
Please keep us up to date as to the outcome of this issue.
I am terribly sorry to hear of your problems,I have only 600 miles on mine, now I am almost afraid to go out and start it.
Merle

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by mhagie:
Finally a member here said to check injector lines for correct installation in the firing order,found that #7 & #8 were crossed at the pump, becuase the are next to each other in the firing order it made it more difficult to diagnose.
Bottom line is that the Avants do at times have a few quality control issues, on the positive side however they do stand behind their product and workmanship.
Crossed lines is definitely something to look for considering everything was off...

[john8662]

RonnieJoe,

Yes, I'm running Dexcool, so that kind of explains the phenomenon, but it was dark and the background lighting wasn't good.

Justin,

Thanks man, I'll sort this thing out if I have to start completly over with a new block, you're one of the few that knows the trouble I've been through before getting this thing running...

Kennedy,

The heads were GM casts, because I'm aware that the Chinese aftermarket cast heads out of Alabama Cylinder Heads are complete junk. Now, the queston is, did I get the GM heads as specified?

You're correct on the pump, it's a Warranty replacement pump, I didn't buy it out right. I'll get the part number for you.

Now, if it was an injection line, why would it have run fine on the initial start and run? None the less, I will be checking that as best I can with the intake still bolted on.

Friends,

Well, my current theory is that it's leaking in the cooling system, could be any number of things, from a blown gasket to cracked head, etc.

I didn't check for coolant in the oil, I will be doing that this evening.

I called and talked to the Avants, I'm going to be doing a compression test on the engine to identify where the problem is in the engine. Once the problem has been found, I won't be wrenching on this any further, I won't be pulling the heads for an in frame repair, learned from someone else here that it's not likely to fix the problem, because further damage could already be present.

The fun continues!

John

[ 10-21-2005, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: john8662 ]

[TJ]

J,
You've got a much more positive attitude than I ever could!! Best wishes my friend...I wonder what the failure rate for the Diesel Depot is???

TJ

[john8662]

Originally posted by TJ:
J,
You've got a much more positive attitude than I ever could!! Best wishes my friend..I think I'm still in denial

:rolleyes:

[TJ]

Very well could be!! I'll buy you a beer. :D But, you'll have to come up and get it...oh WAIT...I'll have to drive down there! ;)

Later,
T

[Kennedy]

The heads should have a 567 cast on them. The aftermarket units have had ACH on an exhaust runner I believe (externally nonetheless) in the past, but that can be ground off.

The injector line cross thing can be tricky. It may not show up at startup fresh because of reduced cylinder pressure from rings not being seated yet. I had a guy drive to my shop for diagnosis and back to the installer with a crossed line.

What was the pump model number that was initially installed?

[john8662]

Kennedy,

I've got a photo of the lines before I installed the intake when I was putting things together, I'll go back when I get home and take a look at it from the image, and get the p/n off the DS4.

I had to give the prom ID to get the pump, the original pump that was replaced was a 5288. The burb is a late 95 and the pump had been changed before under warranty.

Will the p/n be underneath the valve cover? I'll get the p/n if I can find it...

Thanks for the help.

[Kennedy]

IIRC there is always a last 3 digit set cast on the exhaust side of the head.

You didn't happen to get any pics with the covers off that may show actual serial numbers did you?


My std recommendation for any new engine install is whenever possible, fill with water only until the engine has passed the shakedown test. Crude as this sounds, this also can help seal any leaking head bolts/studs with a bit of rust...

[Kennedy]

Second exh port from the Left you see an oblong patch. This I believe has the 567 on it. I have a bunch of head here I'll go look.

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/images/rcylhd.gif

[john8662]

I found an image on my thumb drive that I have with me that had a fuzzy image that covered the area where the number was.

The best I can see, it's a 567.

Thats a good piece of news, thanks for the image on the head ID Kennedy.

I'm going to get compression #'s tonight (because I can't wait to know whats going on) and I'll post them.

J

[moondoggie]

Good Day!

Leak-test your cooling system if you can. If you

[arveetek]

Ouch!

The last few seconds of that audio clip made me cringe! Man, John, I'm sorry! It sure doesn't sound good.

The speed of the clacking noise indicates that it's not valve-train related...it's too fast. It's something connected to the crankshaft...either a rod, piston, etc. It's funny the noise isn't there all the time, so I doubt it's a bearing.....I'm leaning towards a broken piston. A broken piston crown/skirt would allow compression to leak through causing a lot of blowby, but not necessarily making noise all the time. And the red colored smoke, that has to be coolant....perhaps that's the root cause: a leaking gasket/cracked head or something allowed coolant to get into the cylinder, and when you fired it up, it hydrolocked for a second, busts the piston, and now you have the symptoms: clacking noise, rough running, and red smoke.

Just a theory anyway!

Wish there was something I could say, other than I feel for you man!

Casey

[ 10-21-2005, 12:22 PM: Message edited by: arveetek ]

[stingthieves]

Did you check the turbo yet? Are all the blades there? Could it have sucked something else small and it

[john8662]

Well....

My heart is in my boots, and it's ALL my fault.

I haven't ragged on Avant here, because there is always the chance that it wasn't their fault.

All I can say is i'm VERY disappointed in myself.

I really do appreciate the support from you guys!

So, here is what happened:

The story about the washer above is dead on..

I did something stupid installing the upper intake manifold.

The two center holes that hold down the intake manifold had stripped out. So I got the "bright" idea to secure them using studs with double nut's on the bottom side. Well, everything held just fine..

Except both of the doubled up nuts that were tight let go and, yes, you guessed it, into the intake.

So, I've got a nice hunk of yellow metal sittin in a burb that's not suitable for none other than a paper weight.

Dang...

[rjschoolcraft]

Glad to hear it was not the Avants and I apologize for my earlier skeptism.

Sorry, too, about your misfortune.

[jspringator]

What did it break?

[stingthieves]

Hey -&gt; It was a lucky guess. Pull those injectors and glow plugs. The side with the damage has the prize. Lift that head - it might not be so bad... Rick

[rjschoolcraft]

I'm betting a cracked cylinder wall. Piston comes up against nut between head and crown...piston moves sideways cracking cylinder wall...

[dieseldummy]

The good news is that with the addition of a new piston/pistons and a connecting rod/rods you could be good to go again. I have seen quite a few of these engines sleeved after similar incidents with good luck. FYI, I just happen to have a bunch of such parts laying around from when a broken valve did the same to me... I am a firm beleiver in helicoils, sorry about your luck. Sounds like something I would/have done.

Justin

[BUZZ]

Since the sound came and went maybe a chance the nut or nuts are still in the head and trying to pass thru the valve, but not yet in the combustion area. That would explain power loss, valve stuck open. You have a cracked head for sure, red steam.
Pull thoses heads you might have gotten more lucky than you think.
I am sorry as I can be for this, a real buzz killer.

[Kennedy]

For future reference, heli-coil. I've stripped them too. Learned not to use air ratchet the hard way...

[tom.mcinerney]

Regrets, John. Ron says it ["This is 0 for 2 recently with the Avants..."] ; but Cowracers' engine issue resulted from a casting flaw in a new head , so Tim was (significantly) inconvenienced , but the Avants lost a lot of time and money due to an AM General responsibility. As Merle suggests, yours also may be AFU due to a leak , given steamy red exhaust.

This (if so) raises question(s) like is AM Gen losing casting QC/QA , or selling bad parts to Avants? Should Avants start a testing procedure for head qualification?

Mostly , though , sorry for your grief! I'm sure that most who read this are petrified anew at what lies beneath the hood. My understanding is that the Avants have made good on problems.

Hopefully you can maintain a patient altitude....

[mhagie]

Dam John, that sucks, it makes my problems pale in comparison.
Hopefully there are alot of salvageable parts left.
With any luck at all it will be just a head and 1 piston which in itself is too much but all one can do is bite the bullet and move on.
Keep us informed as to the happenings as you progress.
I hate to say it but I am glad for the Avants that they are blameless on this one for they too have had a run of bad luck of late.
Merle

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by tom mac 95:
Regrets, John. Ron says it ["This is 0 for 2 recently with the Avants..."] ; but Cowracers' engine issue resulted from a casting flaw in a new head , so Tim was (significantly) inconvenienced , but the Avants lost a lot of time and money due to an AM General responsibility. As Merle suggests, yours also may be AFU due to a leak , given steamy red exhaust.

This (if so) raises question(s) like is AM Gen losing casting QC/QA , or selling bad parts to Avants? Should Avants start a testing procedure for head qualification?

Mostly , though , sorry for your grief! I'm sure that most who read this are petrified anew at what lies beneath the hood. My understanding is that the Avants have made good on problems.

Hopefully you can maintain a patient altitude.... The issue with Cowracer's engine was a result of a China cast aftermarket head...

[grape]

interesting, I have a set of the chinese by way of alabama cylinder heads that have a part number just as described over the exhaust port. Ends in 567. Wonder how many different people are making knock off castings.

[Kennedy]

Originally posted by grape:
interesting, I have a set of the chinese by way of alabama cylinder heads that have a part number just as described over the exhaust port. Ends in 567. Wonder how many different people are making knock off castings. Good to know that they knocked off the casting numbers even. Is there anything on them to distinguish them as China?

I bought reman heads from Alabama Cylinder Head and got mix and match precups (I accused them of failing Kindergarten which did not amuse them) that were held in place with clear silicon. Also had numerous leaks at the plugs that seal the end of the passage between the valves. For this and other reasons, I never even considered the Chinese junk they are selling now...

[grape]

Originally posted by kennedy:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by grape:
interesting, I have a set of the chinese by way of alabama cylinder heads that have a part number just as described over the exhaust port. Ends in 567. Wonder how many different people are making knock off castings. Good to know that they knocked off the casting numbers even. Is there anything on them to distinguish them as China?

I bought reman heads from Alabama Cylinder Head and got mix and match precups (I accused them of failing Kindergarten which did not amuse them) that were held in place with clear silicon. Also had numerous leaks at the plugs that seal the end of the passage between the valves. For this and other reasons, I never even considered the Chinese junk they are selling now... </font>[/QUOTE]The only thing that sticks out is the terribly rough intake port castings.....and the fact that they weren't clearanced enough (casting flash) for one pushrod to clear the intake runner. The casting itself looked ok, the valve job on the other hand was about as bad as I've ever seen. However the seats and guides in those heads are long gone anyway.

[restoguy]

Wicked sweet with the CAT yellow! Makes me want to do the same to mine when it goes low compression. I have to say that I was hoping to be the first one to polish all the intake stuff, but I see you beat me to it. Nicely done. Hope you can get things going like they are meant to. I'll be keeping track.

[restoguy]

I did notice, while oogling the engine pics, that the engine has a Fram filter. I can confidently say that this is obviously the reason for the demise of your engine. Not the nut mentined before, regardless of what anyone else tells you. Seriously, has anyone else seen one of those things cut open and compared to any other filter? I shed a tear everytime I see someone use a Fram filter. I could build a better filter with a hot glue gun, roll of paper towels, and a cardboard box. That's just about all they use anyway. Personally I like Wix. Now I probably have ireversably changed the direction of this post. And for that I'm sorry.

[john8662]

restoguy,

Funny you say that, the Fram was only going to be on the engine for the 1st 500 miles before complete change, then a nice WIX filter that I've still got sitting in it's box was going on it.

I feel the same way about Fram filters..

So, could the moderation please LOCK this thread?!?! Because it's been hi-jacked by several posters... I'll make a new thread when I know more about my visit from the F#CK-Up Fairy...

Thanks for the kind comments from everyone though! As soon as I get up the confidence to go out and wrench on it again, I'll get the project back rolling again. They'll be a mean 6.5L in the future for sure...

[ 10-24-2005, 03:29 PM: Message edited by: john8662 ]

[tom.mcinerney]

John8662--
ditto on the polishing, real fine. All my aluminum was pretty badly pitted from roadsalt..., which earned it a paint coating.

John Kennedy--
Thanks for headsup re Tim's China heads.
...
Last year somebody (Pannhead??) commented that the NAPA brake rotors from China were garbage {I'm running them!}. I couldn't understand why it was problemmatic, since instrumentation and process controls are now relatively cheap. Then i read a nice article in a general [non-technical] publication , indicating that :
Whereas most conventional outsourcing involves the combination of current technology and low-wage foreign labor , in China they typically do it WAY different. Specifically, the Chinese often re-engineer the production process to REMOVE expensive/advanced equipment , and simply replace it with really cheap labor??!!! no wonder-

[rjschoolcraft]

"Locked at originator's request".

How's that for service?

;)