Starter laboring ....now not even clicking ~

[Low_Bridge]

I didn't like the way the alternator was charging so I swapped it out.

Charging back up to 13.5 +

Seemed fine than a couple hundred miles I felt the starter was laboring.

The batteries showed a little week on the load test so, throw new ones in I did.

New batteries didn't make much of a difference.

Then I find passenger side block ground had worked its way out of it's crimp ~ repaired.

I got a few good starts, & good when warm. then back to starter laboring.

All connection to battery have good clean seats with Jam nuts.

This morning..... starter wont crank at all....

The solenoid may have clicked a few times at first.....

But now nothing no clicks (even put a battery booster on)....everything lights up on dash like she's ready to go at glow but nothing.

Fuses all appear good.

I'm ready to drop the starter...

Question?

Is there anything thing I can test before dropping starter /solenoid?

Thanks`

C1500 1995 Turbo Diesel Automatic 480 (Guessing it's the Solenoid)

[Robyn]

Starter has given it's all

[DmaxMaverick]

Check your battery voltage. Something may have discharged your new batteries overnight (including your new alternator or new battery(ies)). If that did happen, the new batteries will never be new again. Deep cycling starting batteries kills their lifespan and response. Once or twice will usually see them bounce back to good service. More than that and they fall off quickly.

Recheck the connections and grounds (block, frame, and block to firewall), and check the starter solenoid lug connection (common suspect).

[Low_Bridge]

wouldn't the charger on boost / start at least klick the solenoid if the batteries got 'hurt"?

[Low_Bridge]

thanks for the input

I'll be double testing & dive into the wheel well soon.

Opinion on the 9052 power master?

[DmaxMaverick]

wouldn't the charger on boost / start at least klick the solenoid if the batteries got 'hurt"?

Theoretically, it should, but not always. It depends on how hurt, hurt is. A gradual worsening of a dragging starter, then clicking, then no clicking, suggests a loss of electrical. A bad starter won't stop the solenoid from exciting. If the solenoid lug is loose, it won't matter much or what you connect to the battery terminals. It won't carry the load current, and eventually carry no current. Your starter maybe bad, but checking the lug and other connections costs nothing but time. Oftentimes, changing out a suspected bad starter corrects other failings, such as a poor connection or bad solenoid, wrongly confirming you replaced a bad starter.

[sctrailrider]

Cables, ground connections need to be replaced it seems, the bigger the wire size the better for + & - wires.

[Low_Bridge]

So I see the turbo piping make this a not near as fun. She's DOA outside of the garage blocking the 2 car lift (occupied). So driveway a driveway R&R appears to be my fate.

I'm I correct that the fender well DOES NOT need to come out/off with the correct tools? My exhaust exiting turbo is aftermarket & I believe a little bigger.....

[Robyn]

TO MAKE THE JOB EASY

Remove RF TIRE
Remove the rubber splash apron.....You can sit on a bucket and access the starter wires and the support bracket easily.

This trick also makes the glow plugs 2-4-6 really easy to change too......

[Low_Bridge]

First finding:

Top Bracket bolt fallen off:

Question: size for top bracket bolt?

Arcing on solenoid wire (activation)

[Low_Bridge]

Found this: 8mm x 1.25mm, 20mm long

[DmaxMaverick]

First finding:

....

Arcing on solenoid wire (activation)

If it's arcing, it's loose or the terminal has lost integrity. Either can/will cause all the symptoms you've experienced. If it's just loose, clean the connection and tighten it. If it's the terminal, you'll have to crimp a new terminal on the (newly stripped and clean) end, or replace the cable.

[Low_Bridge]

Dropped the starter & it's an ugly old beast .....looked like it had a yellow junk yard number on it.

Solenoid seems to be intermittent on the bench.

[Low_Bridge]

Upon inspection I don't find any arcing on the starter bracket that was loose.

Taking loose the solenoid & pulling it back & at the snot, the Bendix actually look ok ~

A napa starter is 1 day out, O'rielly today & Powermaster on Friday...

Question: What's my bench test to be sure it was my solenoid ?

Shouldn't I do some sort of ignition switch test?

(BTW ~ My Auto electric guy has only offered my new stuff last few times)

[Low_Bridge]

Update -

After spending too many hours trying to approach the Solenoid bolts & bracket from both the side & from front (above & below motor mount had to be my technique)

I resorted to dragging a milk crate under the starter, dropped the stater bolts & flywheel cover & had it out in 10 minutes letting it rest on the milk crate & once the starter bolts were out the angle let me easily reach the wires.

Hooked up batteries ( made sure hot was clear ) tested the solenoid wire when the key was turned to start.

I got power at the meter every time.

Ordered a PowerMaster 9052 & ARP Bolts.

Hating to have my Diesel down with a the Tropical storm bearing down ~ :(

[Robyn]

Getting at the starter wires, solenoid and other goodies in there are a breeze with the access through the wheel well opened up.

Sit on the milk crate and undo the main cable and such,..

[Low_Bridge]

Robyn, mean the splash apron, not the metal wheel well itself?

I failed at accessing it there? Did read your post above...... hmmm

Where did I go wrong?

60726073

[Robyn]

Yes......The rubber apron.

Once the apron is out of the way there is plenty of room between the top of the frame and the metal inner fender to reach the electrical connections on the starter.

This access point also allows easy access the glow plugs 2-4-6 as well.

The bolts on the starter and the actual removal must be done from below......

Good luck.

[Low_Bridge]

So the Power Master has been in a while I just now gettin in the loop.

When cranking this one is louder & I feel there is a grind. I shimmed it this morning. Dose not seem to sound better?

When it's initial firing is when it seems to grind? Can you you hear? or do I need rerecord from under the truck?


http://jadaddio.com/6.5/Starter_6.5_.mp4

[Robyn]

I listened to the video.

The first chattering noise is not "Grinding" it is the solenoid chattering due to a voltage issue....Poor connections or bad cables........

[Low_Bridge]

Thank you....... & that's what tech support at Power Master said when I described what was happening over the phone.

They suggested I make sure the solenoid wire had at least 11.5 during start.

Is it hurting anything besides maybe stressing the solenoid?

[DmaxMaverick]

I think you've come full circle, and perhaps replaced what was a good starter. As Robyn said, it's a power issue. What may seem "good" with little or no load, goes away when loaded. You're having a high-load conductor issue, somewhere, despite what else may be amiss.

[DmaxMaverick]

As far as "hurting anything" goes, if the problem is a weak ground, that ground can fry anything it's routing itself through. IF it is a weak ground, and you attempt a start, the starter will try to load the system at about 500 amps. 500 amps through your wiper motor will kill it, for example. Electronics are much more vulnerable. If nothing else is going haywire, suspect the Batt+ circuit, but start with refreshing all the major grounding points, even if you've already done that. Errant grounds risks everything between the head and tail lamps.

[Low_Bridge]

I will admit trying to push through this off the lift. Just trying to clear the path to the garage.

I will solely focus drill down on all connections ~

I have since confirmed my starter shop will rebuild my old starter ~ (thought he may have a part concern previously) So there may be value in getting his evaluation of the old starter?

Is there any value to running a temporary test switch to the from the solenoid to battery to prove out the problem? I Imagine the weak link could be al the way to the ignition switch somewhere?

Thanks!

[DmaxMaverick]

No. The weak link, according to your total symptoms from start to now, suggests the problem is not the ignition circuit. The problem is loss of power under high-load (starter motor engaging). The ignition switch appears to be working fine, as does the balance of the system. It is breaking continuity when you try to start, which means the load is causing a loss of connection, somewhere. This is most often the cable connectors (corroded internally, loss of crimp pressure, etc.), the terminals at the battery connection, or poor (or missing) ground location clamping. If you have a clamp-on style Amp meter, check all the cables while trying to crank, including the crossover between the batteries and every ground conductor from the batteries, and from the block to the frame and/or body. If the amperage is excessive (800+), you have a short to ground. It may also show how much amperage is required to drop the connection, which can be helpful to identify a suspect circuit (each will have a maximum load it can carry, so you can eliminate the lesser circuits). For example (which I suspect you'll find), if the amperage peaks at 250 amps, that eliminates all but the high-load starting circuit, the conduction between the batteries and starter field. Circuits that are overloaded will show damage, either by opening a breaker or fuse, or physical damage to the conductors or connectors. From what you've described, this is happening, somewhere.

[Robyn]

I have seen many battery cables that are originals...or even replacements get really corroded in the jacket where they are crimped to the terminals.

The jackets on the side terminal cable can look fine where you can see....Get back under the jacket and into the stranded wire and it can be an entirely different story.

IF I have a choice I prefer welding cable and use copper solder on eyes...

Strip the jacket back....add flux paste (Do not use acid type) Stick the cable end in the eye socket and then heat up with a propane torch and stuff the solder to it until its full....Let cool.

Pacing some shrink tube over the cable before you put the end on....then shrink it....Looks really top shelf.....

Doing all the heavy cables this way makes a bomb proof set up that will not give issue later.

The solder gets into all the strands and bonds them to the eye.....MAX AMPERAGE/VOLTAGE will be available.

[Low_Bridge]

You know you guys have helped me so much over the years. I should have gone deeper into the electric. (impatient)

Once I can get the truck re positioned I'll do a through check.


I will say that the first time or so the power master was used I don't recall the chatter but that may have been because of the honeymoon syndrome

[Robyn]

Good luck.....
Keep us in the loop.